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Originally Posted by dat68
lousygolfer:

Oh yeah, exposed this to everyone starting back in July. I am far into this.

Our common friends know, I contacted her workplace, parents, brothers, everyone.

I have been fighting, but like I have been reading, the begging and pleading has since stopped. We are in different homes now, and I have told her no contact at all unless its about the kids.


I am trying to figure out the wayward mind a little better at this point, that's all.

Thanks for your feedback, helps A ALOT...!

-DAT68

PS....Yes a 20 year old from her workplace and she is 35 and our oldest is 14...Ugghhhh


You need to go to plan B LIKE NOW!!

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Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Originally Posted by dat68
lousygolfer:

Oh yeah, exposed this to everyone starting back in July. I am far into this.

Our common friends know, I contacted her workplace, parents, brothers, everyone.

I have been fighting, but like I have been reading, the begging and pleading has since stopped. We are in different homes now, and I have told her no contact at all unless its about the kids.


I am trying to figure out the wayward mind a little better at this point, that's all.

Thanks for your feedback, helps A ALOT...!

-DAT68

PS....Yes a 20 year old from her workplace and she is 35 and our oldest is 14...Ugghhhh


You need to go to plan B LIKE NOW!!


Before I would recommend Plan B, I would like to know how his Plan A went. He is 2.5 months in. With an A, adoption, seperation, etc.

DAT: Tell us what has happened since DDay, and how your Plan A went.

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Well, PLAN A I am not sure....I did not find this site until after I made a fool of myself. Begged, pleaded, exposed.

Did a lot a love busting, stuff I did not know about until a friend turned me to this site.

Basically I found out about the affair from her texting a co-worker of hers. She left on July 11th after telling me three weeks prior that we would work on it. It was all BS

So as of August 12th, we have not spoken other than kids stuff. She moved out on the 18th (this time she took her stuff, July 11th she just left and came back to see the kids once in awhile).

So for almost two weeks now, its been dark but not dark when the kids need to be discussed.

She is hot a cold when I see her when we exchange the kids. One day she is talk talk talk about them and I say "ummmm hmmm and ok" and other days she is cold and does not want to talk and I am fine with that.

So where do you think I should be right now?

Thanks

-DAT68

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I did the "younger man" thing too. Just a big shallow ego trip.

We all make choices in life. At 18, I had the chance to sing with a well know Christian group. It would have fit in perfectly with my "become the next Sandi Patti" plan. But I wanted to finish college. What would have come? Don't know. At 22 I wanted to marry a guy. I broke off the engagement mainly because of my mother. What would have become? I don't know. When I stood next to my DH during the opening remarks at our wedding, I got the rush of nausea and urge to run. What would have become? I don't know.

What did happen is that I pledged to God and DH my love, honor, and faithfulness for as long as we both shall live. I gave birth to two amazing children. I took various teaching jobs. So at 37, my life was where I CHOSE for it to be. I didn't "lose" my 20's...I lived through every moment of them, and they were over.

I am of the opinion that "mid-life crisis" really means "I need a hip sounding phrase to call my shallow selfish choices and idiotic decisions to hurt others." If I sound unsympathetic, it is because I am. I will save my sympathy for someone who is willing to be honest enough to have a chance to save what they have chosen to throw away.

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Originally Posted by dat68
Well, PLAN A I am not sure

So where do you think I should be right now?

Thanks

-DAT68

Run an excellent Plan A for about 6 to 8 weeks.

Blow up the fantasy of the Affair.

Blow up the fantasy of the "happy" divorce.

Is the friend who pointed you here a poster here? Do you know who? They can speak to you in person about this.

Ask the OM how many diapers he is willing to change.

LG

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Originally Posted by lousygolfer
Run an excellent Plan A for about 6 to 8 weeks.

Blow up the fantasy of the Affair.

Blow up the fantasy of the "happy" divorce.

Is the friend who pointed you here a poster here? Do you know who? They can speak to you in person about this.

Ask the OM how many diapers he is willing to change.

LG


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[quote=Wheels_spinning]Honestly, dont delve too much in understanding the mind behind a wayward.[quote]

I'm destined to never get the quote thing down.

With all due respect, I don't agree with Wheels. I think you have to have some idea what is going on in your WW's head if you want to reconcile. It's an ugly mess in there, let me tell you, but if you want her back, you are going to have to show up with a mop and a broom and be prepared to help her cart huge piles of trash to the dump.

I agree that all A's are selfish, but I don't think the inquiry should end there.

Your WW's behavior is so wildly out of the box it positively screams "desperate" to me. She's a 35 year old mother of four with a new baby having an A with a 20 year old -- I find it very difficult to believe that there is any fantasy to be dispelled. I seriously doubt either one of them is thinking about building a life together post D.

I'm not seeing the typical WW scenario here where she thinks there is some "happily ever after" with OM. There is something else going on with her.

I think of anger as related to a specific event and rage as free floating and amorphous. IMO, your W isn't "angry" -- she is enraged. She's blowing up her life on purpose because she needs the outside of her life to look like the inside.

For well over a month post DD2, I shut off virtually all communication with the outside world. I refused to answer the phone or the door. I didn't respond to emails or text messages. I pulled weeds and planted hundreds of flowers, took care of my boys and went to see my psychiatrist once a week -- and the first time I saw him after DD2, I handed him a bullet point list describing my raging psyche and told him it was his turn to talk.

I resisted the urge to kick out every window in the house, set my H's clothes on fire and call the lawyer.

And I'm the wayward. That's not the way I was supposed to feel.

The rage -- oh my God, the rage was so all consuming that at times I had a hard time breathing. I thought it was going to consume me.

The rage had not one thing to do with OM or some ridiculous notion that my H was keeping me from him. The rage was there before the A. My A was rage incarnate.

My heart is pounding just writing about that time. It was horrible and exhilarating and cathartic and excruciating.

I still don't feel particularly remorseful. I don't beat myself up over the A. I was desperate and furious and in utter despair -- I think I did the best I could with the tools I had. None of that is what I am supposed to be thinking and feeling. I'm supposed to be thinking like SR. Maybe the fact that I don't feel what I'm supposed to feel means that my efforts at reconciliation are doomed to failure. No way to know.

But here's the thing -- last night I asked my H to sit by me while we watched TV and held his hand because I WANTED to. Two months ago I could barely stand to be in the same room with him. I've accepted that I am responsible for teaching my H how to treat me so I'm teaching him which has meant I figuring out how I want to be treated. And when he treats me that way, I like him and want to be around him.

I'm not going into the stuff I'm doing to make him feel safe as that isn't the point of this thread.

I'll leave you with one thought -- have you made it clear to your WW that she is safe admitting to you that she is just wrong?

It is directly contrary to what I was told I needed to do, but I made it clear to my H that the price of admission to reconciliation is that he table the A weapon for the time being. That position may also doom my efforts to failure, but there was no way I was going to reach across the emotional chasm without that assurance. He had to prove to me that it was emotionally safe for me to come back.

There's a momentum to these things -- backing down from all the public stuff may feel impossible to her in the absence of a safe place to which she can retreat.


WS
M: 25 years
D21, S19, S15

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Dat68, as a FWW 4 years out from D-Day and still married, I will tell you a few things:

Her A was not your fault. I don't care what you "did" to her, how you "acted" toward her, what you "said" to her. Her A was not your fault

She is not entitled to reconciliation until she puts down the protection induced pride and quits trying to distract others from what SHE has chosen to do. If she is one of those people who has made a lifestyle out of all sorts of elaborate ways to avoid personal responsibility, this may take awhile.

A true recovering addict never ever implies or says that his drinking was okay because he couldn't help it or someone made him do it or life sucked. He takes personal responsibility and makes amends. A truly repentant wayward does the same.

I could argue a very good case as to why I felt the way I did in the years before my A. It would sound very plausible to a feel good therapist or make a great Cosmo article. I might even convince a few people. But ya know, spreadin' my legs for another man besides the father of my children to whom I am married would still be filthy.

If someone walked into my DH's office and tortured him slowly before killing him, I wouldn't much give a flying rip if the killer had a really good "reason" for being mad at him.

Okay, I feel my BP rising. I better go breathe some deep cleansing breaths or something smile

Last edited by lurioosi2; 08/30/10 01:35 PM.
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Golfer:

He is a friend from about 10 years ago. We are friends on FB and one day I posted something regarding the A and he called me and told me about this site. I have no clue what his name on here is

Odd that someone you have not really talked to in 10 years comes to the rescue smile

-DAT68

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SW - add a / between the [ and the q in the last set of brackets. Think of it like [open] and [/close].

so [ quote ] without spaces and your quote text is here and then finish without spaces with: [ /quote ]

end t/j


Me & DH: 28
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1DD, 9 mo.
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Saddestwife:

"I'll leave you with one thought -- have you made it clear to your WW that she is safe admitting to you that she is just wrong?"

No I have not, the only thing I left her with is that once "he new life has run it's course" that she knew my number and where I lived. I told her no contact AT ALL unless the kids were involved and for the most part she has agreed and done so.

Too be honest, she did call me about 3 weeks into my finding out about the affair and she told me then this was all her fault. That feeling lasted maybe 2 days on her part. But since then, she has been hell bent to end this and move on.

She also told me one night about a month into this and told me she wanted to work on it and then texted 14 hours later to tell me she did not see us getting back together. So for the first month she flipped flopped a lot.

My lawyer just sent me a email and she is meeting with her lawyer to draw up the divorce papers in the morning, and I am guessing I will have them in a week or two. In my state you have to be separated at least one year. So far, we have been separated not a month yet.


I also just saw her about 20 minutes about our kids "meet your teacher" event at school. It was like "who the hell are you". She and I were ok, not nasty looks or comments at all. She just looks UGLY on the outside and on the inside when I see her.

I know that is not a nice comment, but I think hate is taking over me and that is not how I want to feel. Pissed off yes, but not hate.

-DAT68

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I am so so sorry you are dealing with this, DAT68. Nobody should have to go through the pain of being a BS. I am even more sorry that your WW is still in the "all about her phase." And you're right...there's nothing uglier or more narcissistic.

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Lurioosi2:

Yeah it's been a mess since mid June, just starting to deal with the fact that she is gone. Kids start school in the morning and that is good. They have been home all summer with my oldest babysitting and I am sure they are more than sick of that.

Time is get some structure back into their lives. Just hurts when I get the "when is mommy coming home?" My wife does have her own place now and we do share them, just sucks that they are involved in this crap

-DAT68

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Hang in there. I was....bad wayward. About as melodramatic and entitled and pathetic and deluded by my own pseudo-intellectual "I'm the exception" crap as they come. If my hard heart and hard head could be broken, ANYONE'S can.

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I agree that she does not have the backbone. If she is asked hard questions by anyone of our common friends, she either ignores it or gives such s BS answer that people see through it.

One of our common friends made a few comments to her in an email after my wife sent her an email stating she would call. Well after the "hard questions / comments" our friend made, my wife never called and once our friend called her, the conversation was short

Yeah, it's a straight case of run from your problems, don't / won't face them.

But as she tells everyone, "the kids are fine"....YEAH RIGHT...!

-DAT68

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DAT, honestly, I have read so much here that I was shocked at how quickly I found this quote for you from mimi_be (?) posted in 2003 (?). It stuck with me enough to hunt for it for you for an hour.

"WS DOES NEED A ROAD MAP BACK HOME (as suggested by Espoir and MM): This is the transition piece that we have been talking about in my thread towards the end of the A. My WS stated that he wanted to end the A, come home months ago but needed to feel that there was a way out FOR HIM . If there was not a way out, he thinks he would have given up and just stayed in his mess. I would imagine that the WAY OUT will look different for different people. For him, he wanted a nice place to stay. A refuge continues to be important to him. Also, he is very proudful and needed to be sure that he would not be humiliated by me, my family or the kids. This all can be spelled out specifically in one or more PB letters. I wrote a couple of letters, I think. My FWS referred back to those. Also, I opened up lines of communication in the end regarding my terms for reconciliation.

HANGING IN THERE WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER PERSON: Regardless of the outcome of this for me, I am happier with myself. It's unbelievable to me that I am saying this. I am a stronger, more self-confident person. So even if my H goes back to the OW, God forbid, I now will not take it as a rejection of me. I know that I did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage. Now it's on him. If he leaves, it will be his loss. He knows this about me now and has grown to respect me."

I think they ended up reconciled, but I can't be sure. I gather she sort of dropped out of sight after a time.

Not my words. Hope this helps.


WS
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Saddestwife:

I did send her a letter maybe a month ago stating that I wanted her to end the affair and that once that was over I would like to create an a place for her in our house that was peaceful and loving and where we could begin to work on our marriage.

So to back track a little from I said before, yes I believe I have said this too her that she has a way back

I guess I am confused. Should I flat out tell her that she has a safe place to come back to and that the door is open if she feels the need to walk through it. Or is the letter I sent enough?

She knows I want her to come back and work on us. She knows how I feel and that I forgive.

At this point we have agreed to only discuss children related topics and today is meets with her lawyer to write up divorce papers. So she is in the process in my mind to end this

I stated before how dedicated she was doing the paperwork when we adopted this year. So here is another stack of paperwork that in my mind she is going to be "like a woman on a mission" to get every "i" dotted and every "t" crossed on.

So basically, she is in "no more it's over" mode. Other than going dark from her, what should my move be right now?

Thank you so much for posting that and finding that. It does help more than you know and I thank you so much for helping me during this time in me life!

-DAT68

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Originally Posted by dat68
Other than going dark from her, what should my move be right now?


Your next move right now...is YOU! laugh

Start taking care of yourself...

exercising
new clothes
new hair cut
Read some self help books
etc...

DO NOT worry about your WW, she is gone, she is not the person you married, so let it be and start taking care of yourself, keep yourself busy!

Good luck laugh

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Originally Posted by saddestwife
DAT, honestly, I have read so much here that I was shocked at how quickly I found this quote for you from mimi_be (?) posted in 2003 (?). It stuck with me enough to hunt for it for you for an hour.

"WS DOES NEED A ROAD MAP BACK HOME (as suggested by Espoir and MM): This is the transition piece that we have been talking about in my thread towards the end of the A. My WS stated that he wanted to end the A, come home months ago but needed to feel that there was a way out FOR HIM . If there was not a way out, he thinks he would have given up and just stayed in his mess. I would imagine that the WAY OUT will look different for different people. For him, he wanted a nice place to stay. A refuge continues to be important to him. Also, he is very proudful and needed to be sure that he would not be humiliated by me, my family or the kids. This all can be spelled out specifically in one or more PB letters. I wrote a couple of letters, I think. My FWS referred back to those. Also, I opened up lines of communication in the end regarding my terms for reconciliation.

HANGING IN THERE WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER PERSON: Regardless of the outcome of this for me, I am happier with myself. It's unbelievable to me that I am saying this. I am a stronger, more self-confident person. So even if my H goes back to the OW, God forbid, I now will not take it as a rejection of me. I know that I did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage. Now it's on him. If he leaves, it will be his loss. He knows this about me now and has grown to respect me."

I think they ended up reconciled, but I can't be sure. I gather she sort of dropped out of sight after a time.

Not my words. Hope this helps.

Saddest:

I see that you are making progress. Keep it up.

Your quote above, is from Mimi. She DID recover her marraige after her H's affair. He had moved out, and was cavorting with a 25 year old.

Mimi was a mess. Than she found MB, executed a great Plan A, then a good plan B. To the extent that she sold her "dream House" that her and her H had built.

The day in Plan B when she planted the "for sale" sign in the driveway, was the day the A started to crumble. It was over not much longer, but the house was still sold.

She recovered her marriage. SW would do very well to read Mimi's posts.


LG

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Dat:

Making the marraige "safe to return to" isn't something that happens in one day, or one letter. It is a series of actions that are consistent on your part over a period of time leading to this result, and pierces the fog of your Wayward Wife.

She is probably, at about 6 months in, at her most flaming entitlement point of an affair. She may get worse, she may get better, but EVERYTHING right now that is wrong in her life is YOUR FAULT.

SW has expressed this attitude quite bluntly on your thread so far.

And it is important to have some knowledge about what is going on in your WW head. Sun Tzu in the "Art of War" states quite clearly that you should "know your enemy". And if you do, you will be prepared for her remarks, outbursts, and actions, and be looking at them when they happen, not with surprise, but with bemused detachment.

You don't have to understand EVERYTHING in her brain, just the WW parts that are in control right now.

Your three months into this. Please give us some idea what your life was like before see got involved in this A. Be honest, and be blunt. None of us are perfect, and her choice to have an affair is NOT YOUR FAULT, but the state of your marriage is 50% yours.

Thru this analysis, we find out how to address your WW most important EN's. If you were getting yours met, if its possible for her to meet your EN's, and reflect on where you really where in your marriage, with the benefit of hindsight.

With this info, we may well think you should run the other way, or to keep fighting for this M. This is Marriage Builders, so the bias is the work towards recovery, but that is not true in every case. We just want to understand and to help you explore if it IS worth saving.

LG

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