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Originally Posted by lurioosi2
Oh, and I did not sleep with OM in 2010...that was just the back then versus now time frame! Yeeks

Sure you didn't......don't you know the truth ALWAYS comes out? (I'm kidding here -- sometimes my sense of humor doesn't translate well).

I had sex with OM because I didn't care. I didn't care about him. I didn't care about my H. I didn't care about my M. I didn't care about me.

I didn't care enough about myself to not crawl into bed with someone I barely knew. That's scary.

I. Just. Didn't. Care. I almost made my screen name idontcare.

So why not have sex? OM wanted to, so why not?

If it had occurred to me that my kids would be impacted, I would have run out of that room so fast I would have been a blur.

But then the sex was good, but not in the way you are thinking. I was already asking myself about my M "is this as good as it gets? Really? I'm supposed to grow old with HIM? I'm thinking no...." And I skipped on down the road to perdition.

The sex was good not because of OM, but because I was different. I'm going to tell this story because H's who have wives of a certain age might benefit from the insight.

I learned about sex from Catholic nuns. To say it was vague would be an understatement. The sum total of my mother's guidance on this was "don't lie down with someone until you are married," and she meant that quite literally -- she walked in on me and my then boyfriend H lying on the couch watching TV, and that's all we were doing. l learned most of what I knew from page 47 of The Godfather. I was so ashamed when I started my period that I didn't tell my mother for a year -- I stole tampons from the drug store and friend's houses. I believed that if I was in the presence of sperm I could get pregnant. The whole subject was taboo and shameful and terrifying.

I started dating my H when I was 15, and he was the first. He wasn't the only, but the shame was always, always there. Patterns of behavior were set and never changed. Good girls don't enjoy sex, and certainly don't need it. The point of the whole exercise was to please the man. I did enjoy SF with H, but that was never the point. And the act was never -- and frankly still isn't -- associated with any emotional or spiritual connection.

With OM, I felt like a woman for the first time in my life -- because it didn't matter what he thought because I Didn't Care. I felt free in a way I had never been with my H. My H didn't do anything overt to inhibit me but the message I received, sent or not, was keep it simple and quick.

So, I've taken what I learned about me with OM, and used it in my M, and now SF is great with my H, way better than I would have thought possible. And I have every reason to believe it will get ever better.

I went back and forth on whether to post this or not. The only reason to do it is if it might help someone else and I think of my story is somewhat unique, but it seems that however unique I might think my story might be, it isn't. Every fact pattern brought here is slightly different but there are underlying themes, one of which is ignorance about the other opposite sex and another of which is generational differences.

So there it is for what it is worth.


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D21, S19, S15

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I'm glad you posted this, SW. I know it's very personal. I think it's an important point too, especially if I WW has been brought up to be very religious. Thanks to my parents and a good youth minister's wife, I wasn't taught that sex was bad, but there was certainly a big "don't do it or God will get you" cloud around. DH went to a VERY conservative seminary, so his purity gauge was firmly in place as well.

When I think about sex with OM, I don't think fond thoughts AT ALL, but like you, the only reason it seemed "good" was because it was about ME. The inhibitions were gone.

It makes me so angry at myself that I cheated us out of an uninhibited marriage bed for all those years. SF is still a struggle area for us, but not because of the A. But like you, I am not picking up my old fears about "what's okay" again. There's nothing better than uninhibited SF with the DH, the father of my kids. (I just wish it happened more often!)

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dat,
Quick question. Did you ever contact OM directly? Just wondering (I may have missed it in your thread). When my H contacted my OM, it was a complete wake up call. He did it in front of me and it was one of the most shameful moments of my life. It completely made me realize how messed up the whole situation was. I know this doesn't work for some. But obviously OM wasn't too keen on communicating with me after speaking with my H! (Not that I wanted to after that anyway). (Also, his W found out before my H found out and she never contacted me. Hence it did not stop. I don't know if I would have stopped had she contacted me directly, but I tend to think that it would have at least been harder to continue after speaking with her directly).

To go along with the thread topic now, my mental process on how I consented to sleep with OM? Well, for me it was not about the sex. It was about an alternate reality. One that didn't include any responsibilies, one that was nothing but romance and compliments (I know, puke, right?), one that had no history, no judgements. At the time, it felt like a movie. Completely unreal.

I know that you might be preoccupied with the physical aspect of it. But I really can't say much about that. I think once your mind decides it will do something, your body follows along. It's all mental. (At least for me).

I obviously took the cowards way out. My marriage at that point was a complete wreck. And in my foggy mind, it was easier to create an alternate reality than to deal with the very poor reality that I had helped create. And because of this, it was easy for me to justify my behavior and blame my H for my bad choices. My H and I had very poor boundaries, terrible IB, complete lack of respect, etc. Of course, as everyone who is a former wayward learns later, it made things 100 times worse.

Hope this helps.
-txnatheart





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Hi txnaheart

Yeah I sort of been in contact with him, nothing directly, just saw them together with the kids in my car. Issues is, he is 20 and could give a [censored]. He is from out of state and has had multiple addresses and I can't seem to find any relatives of his.

I am 42 and my wife is 35 and we have four kids.

At this point she has been gone a couple months and I am starting to sink into my new routine with kids.

I am in Plan B, I have zero contact with her. I have told her no contact unless one of the kids is bleeding. She is not happy with that, but neither am I am what she has done.

So for now I am letting her "hang herself" and if she comes back, we will have a LOOOOONG talk and I will decide if I can forget, if not, I am moving on with my life.

-DAT68


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Hi txnaheart:

How long did your "fog" last?

-DAT68

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Hi dat68,

Was going to reply to someone else here and saw your post and short thread. I just want to say something short and simple, what is the point of your inquiry? I can usually judge how valuable an exploratory thread like this is by the number of vets who respond. I am not a vet. I am just a guy who is still married for 41+ years. So far it looks like few responses. Considering your main thread, if I were you I would focus on doing all necessary on winning your W back and winning in your marriage rather than needless and seemingly provocative speculation. And, that is truly what this is, period. This in no way adds to marriage building, and this question is one you should ask your wife quite frankly, and not a random sample.

Sorry Luri, but I think most men would abhore their loved wives participating in this kind of speculation.

Take care,

Tom




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You're right, Tom.

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Hey Tom:

I have another thread I have been posting to and listening to and getting help. I guess since this is all new to me, I am just interested in the whole "mind set" and why people do this.

More of just an understanding I guess. I am in Plan B right now from the advice of vets on here and also Mr. Harley book.

It's just a interested of mine to understand more from people that have done this, that's all

-DAT68

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Originally Posted by Tom2010
Hi dat68,

Was going to reply to someone else here and saw your post and short thread. I just want to say something short and simple, what is the point of your inquiry? I can usually judge how valuable an exploratory thread like this is by the number of vets who respond. I am not a vet. I am just a guy who is still married for 41+ years. So far it looks like few responses. Considering your main thread, if I were you I would focus on doing all necessary on winning your W back and winning in your marriage rather than needless and seemingly provocative speculation. And, that is truly what this is, period. This in no way adds to marriage building, and this question is one you should ask your wife quite frankly, and not a random sample.

Sorry Luri, but I think most men would abhore their loved wives participating in this kind of speculation.

Take care,

Tom

Why did DAT ask this Q, Tom? Simple. KNOW THY ENEMY.

If he understands better what is going on in his WW's head, then he can react, act and address things that come from his foggy WW.

Pretty simple really.

LG

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dat,
My fog lasted until H called OM. I think the shot of reality into my bubble really pushed me out of the fog. I know that the guy probably doesn't care, but maybe it would at least make it harder for him to continue. I'm not talking like a fighting/yelling confrontation. Really my H had a calm talk with OM and I think OM at that point realized how bad all of it really was.

Just a thought.

-txnatheart


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Why did DAT ask this Q, Tom? Simple. KNOW THY ENEMY.

If he understands better what is going on in his WW's head, then he can react, act and address things that come from his foggy WW.

Pretty simple really.

LG

I'm glad to see this thread. I've often wondered what, if anything, may have gone through OW's mind while the whole A and exposure played out.

Like LG said - Know the enemy.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Yes, I am also glad to see this thread. I told my WW about it so she could read it. Its only been 3 weeks since i found out about the A and I think she is having trouble letting go of the OM. I hope she finds closer from reading this thread.


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Hi dat68,

Okay, I can understand your curiosity. It is sort of like getting the 'playbook' of another NFL team by picking that team's player off waivers or free agency. I don't think it does much good. The team losing that player will adjust and will never play exactly the same again. If they have the weapons on offense of defense, they will continue to exploit the gaining team even with their former player.

While I agree that having some surface knowledge may be good, it doesn't substitute for simply asking your W just why. This same question could be asked of WH's - I do not believe there is much of a difference.

I admit to you that one of the things that made me respond was the comment by 'saddest' "OM made me feel like a womean for the first time in my life". If my wife ever said that to me I would feel like a loser and I would ride off into the sunset suddenly, withour warning and just disappear. Short of that, I would want to know, and I did find out from my W, they why - and not from others, but from her. I did find out - it was her feeling of abandonment. I didn't have to know that 'what', or the mindset, I had to hear from her.

Just my thoughts, but I understand why you are doing this.

Take care,

Tom


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In case any WWs want to read the first post my wife read on this forum, check out this oldie...

Dorry's Recovery Guide for Former Wayward Wives

Mark

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Thank you Mark

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Marital,

Sorry, but I disagree here. Let me give you a quote (and I know you pretty much hate my guts), but anyway...

It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you got to have is faith and discipline when you're not a winner.
Vince Lombardi

In an attempt to explain Lombardi's statement, and it applies to life as well as to football, it means that you can't let yourself spiral down when you are losing the game, but that you have to rely on who you are, and your faith in God (higher power) to pull yourself up. I also think he was implying that this takes humility as well.

Along this line, the enemy is not the wayward - the enemy is yourself as a BH or BW. You did not make the choice for your spouse to have an affair, but you damn well laid the groundwork for it to occur. Therefore, the enemy is simply the affair, AND past behavior and the mindset that that alientated your spouse.

So, what do you do. Well, you don't cower or resist change - that would have caused Lombardi to get rid of you if you were a player on his teams in the 1960's, and it will also cause your spouse to want to be rid of you. You dig down - you figure out the missed tackles, missed running opportunities, etc. - translated it means you figure out the times you did not admire her or express it, the times you engaged in IB, the times your job took precedence, the times you could have spent UA time with her, but you chose not to, the times you saw in her face that she wanted to be with you, but you walked away - in other words, the opportunities you had but you either were not up to it or just simply screwed up.

It takes humility AND discipine to correct this. From what I have seen here not many BH's have the discipline.

No Marital and others, it isn't so much knowing the enemy as much as it is knowing how to change yourself and to contribute to the team (e.e., the M). And LG, Lombardi did not win all those championships long ago in the 1960's because he had another team's playbook. He won because he was able to insitll in his players the courage and the discipline to look into themselves and to strive to make the changes that would contribute to the team.

Intersting topic, but you could debate this all day and still not be any closer to winning (i.e., a suuccessful marriage or recovery from an affair).

I just wanted to voice my opinion, and thanks.

Tom




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Originally Posted by Tom2010
Marital,

Sorry, but I disagree here. Let me give you a quote (and I know you pretty much hate my guts), but anyway...
Why would I hate you? I don't even know you! crazy We disagree about some things. That's about it.
It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you got to have is faith and discipline when you're not a winner.
Betrayed spouses aren't losers. They're just...betrayed.

Therefore, the enemy is simply the affair, AND past behavior and the mindset that that alientated your spouse.

A lofty statement, but so simplistic that it misses addressing the damage done to a BS. Yes, the enemy is simply the conditions that made the A possible. But the emotional damage inflicted upon a BS by the main person on 'their side' requires much more than a simple definition of what 'enemy' means.

The damage is akin to post-traumatic stress disorder. The victim feels the need in so many cases to relive the horror. They want to know all the details. What the OP looked like, what they did, what they said, what they wore...they want to know everything It's a way of coming to terms with what has happened to them. Knowing who all the players are. Knowing the mindsets involved. Knowing what the reality really was in a marriage they thought was in good shape. Coming to terms with the lies and deceit inflicted upon them by someone they trusted. It's a starting point in healing. THAT'S knowing 'the enemy'. And it's not a game.


Intersting topic, but you could debate this all day and still not be any closer to winning (i.e., a suuccessful marriage or recovery from an affair).
I don't need to debate it. I've lived it. I know what it's like to need to know everything in order to regain my equilibrium. And I know too many posters who have needed the same thing as part of their healing. I respect that.

<snip> He won because he was able to insitll in his players the courage and the discipline to look into themselves and to strive to make the changes that would contribute to the team.

And I'll bet he'd want to know what the story was if he caught one of his players sneaking around, helping the other team score touchdowns.


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Originally Posted by saddestwife
I had sex with OM because I didn't care. I didn't care about him. I didn't care about my H. I didn't care about my M. I didn't care about me.

I didn't care enough about myself to not crawl into bed with someone I barely knew. That's scary.

I. Just. Didn't. Care. I almost made my screen name idontcare.

So why not have sex? OM wanted to, so why not?

If it had occurred to me that my kids would be impacted, I would have run out of that room so fast I would have been a blur.

But then the sex was good, but not in the way you are thinking. I was already asking myself about my M "is this as good as it gets? Really? I'm supposed to grow old with HIM? I'm thinking no...." And I skipped on down the road to perdition.

The sex was good not because of OM, but because I was different. I'm going to tell this story because H's who have wives of a certain age might benefit from the insight.

I find this incredibly insightful. I think you just embodied my WW's outlook on the whole thing. Thanks you for sharing.

It wwasn't the lack of boundaries that enabled my wife's affair, it's the fact that she just didn't care at all.

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You dig down - you figure out the missed tackles, missed running opportunities, etc. - translated it means you figure out the times you did not admire her or express it, the times you engaged in IB, the times your job took precedence, the times you could have spent UA time with her, but you chose not to, the times you saw in her face that she wanted to be with you, but you walked away - in other words, the opportunities you had but you either were not up to it or just simply screwed up.
I changed and my WH did not care because all he cared about was getting his fix with OW, so I could have turned into the most appealing and balanced W in the world and he still would have not noticed me.
Our M, by Steve Harley's opinion, was totally salvageable. Steve told my WH these very words: you are lucky to have a W who loves you and who knows already so much about saving the M and who is willing to go thru it with you accepting all the past and moving on together. Your wife is an intelligent and loving person and is already at a stage where it would take me months to get any other spouse to. She is willing to fully meet your needs and foster your happiness....
After that my WH announced he no longer wanted to do counseling...
It is not that simple my dear. And I do not feel like I am the looser.
blessing


atena
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