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Just wanted to mention one more thing. My husband and I did an individual couple's retreat shortly after his SA was disclosed. It was in the home of a couple, both counselors and the husband a former priest, and the husband had also had an affair. The wife told me at that time, which has now been almost 4 years ago, about her point of forgiveness for the OW and how she actually sat down with her to tell her she'd forgiven her. My, oh, my! I said "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!" So you see, I wasn't always receptive to, or at a place of, forgiveness! I never thought it would happen, didn't WANT it to happen, didn't think it should happen. But here I am telling others about it. And MelodyLane, if our discussion encourages others to seek the Scriptures to form their own opinion, then it's a good thing, so thanks as well for the debate.

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Originally Posted by baffled2
The wife told me at that time, which has now been almost 4 years ago, about her point of forgiveness for the OW and how she actually sat down with her to tell her she'd forgiven her. My, oh, my! I said "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!" So you see, I wasn't always receptive to, or at a place of, forgiveness! I never thought it would happen, didn't WANT it to happen, didn't think it should happen. But here I am telling others about it. And MelodyLane, if our discussion encourages others to seek the Scriptures to form their own opinion, then it's a good thing, so thanks as well for the debate.

baffled, please don't confuse my position with someone who is not receptive to forgiveness. I have ALWAYS been receptive to forgiveness. Since day 1. As a Christian that is my responsibility. As i stated before, biblical forgiveness is a two way endeavor, not a one sided feel good measure.

My reluctance to forgive is based solely on the scriptures and God's STANDARD of forgiveness, which is forgiveness with repentance. I don't agree that forcing forgiveness on someone against their will is scriptural or even effective, as I stated earlier. I think using the gift of forgiveness in a one sided way cheapens it and nullifies its intent.

I understand you don't agree with me, but wanted to clarify to you that this has nothing to do with personal growth. I am YEARS into recovery. One does not need to do a one-sided forgiveness to alleviate bitterness and resentment. I am perfectly at peace in my marriage.

I hope that clarifies my position and helps you understand that many who don't forgive are just as, if not more, recovered than those who do.


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ok. I said I can agree to disagree, even theologically. It doesn't matter to me what works for you. I just wanted to present what's worked for me. enough said. it's time for football.

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Thanks, baffled.. smile enjoy the game!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by SusieQ
No, it is because I can't force myself to forgive her nor should I. That was just causing me to feel MORE resentment, not less.

I agree with this, Susie. Forcing a one-sided forgiveness does not resolve the problem. The key is to release bitterness and anger, which can be done without a one-sided forgiveness. I am not bitter and not angry and I have never forgiven the OW.

Agreed. I am reminded of two small children who get into a fight. The mother pulls them apart and says to the instigator "Now say you're sorry." We all know the kid probably isn't sorry. Yet he parrots the words and that is satisfactory to Mom. This is not true repentence - he was forced. Same thing applies here, at least as far as I'm concerned. I would be parroting words if I forgave the OW.

It gives me peace to know that she is with her H and son and has to face them every day, knowing that they know everything she did with my H. That is her burden. And I believe that God intends to use this experience as a way of molding her. Whether or not she accepts that is up to her. But I will not forgive an unrepentant person.


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Roll Tide...just sayin'. If you're a Penn State fan...I forgive you. har har

Actually, baffled, I wonder if God sent you. I have had a sitch recently where I know I need to let go of something, even though there will never be an apology. Because it's eating ME. And I don't want to. I want to hear them feel bad and say they are sorry....but that won't happen. It's not an A, nothing nearly that big or bad. So thanks a lot for the conviction...ick.

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Luriossi2, this is for you since you asked - I'm taking a break from football since my team is losing! I'm referencing Billy Graham since I believe him to be a well-respected, non-controversial man of the cloth. I don't believe in any of these answers does he say that forgiveness is always a two-way street. In fact, he tells us to "forgive them in our hearts - whether they accept our forgiveness or not." I hope this helps you. In response to the following questions regarding forgiveness he answers:

Q:I know we're supposed to forgive people who hurt us, but why bother? After all, it doesn't change what they've done to us, and it doesn't change them, either. I've been very hurt because of something my brother-in-law did to us, and there's no way I could ever forgive him.
A:In one way, you're right; forgiving someone who has hurt us doesn't change the past, and it may not even change the other person (although sometimes it does).

But listen, it does change you! Have you ever stopped to think about the damage you've done to yourself because of your failure to forgive? When someone hurts us, all kinds of emotions try to take control of us: anger, hurt, bitterness, resentment, depression, hopelessness�the list is almost endless. We also may want to lash out in violence and revenge, or we may even plot how we can get even with them through malicious gossip or in some other way.

But every one of those hurts you far more than it does the other person. Anger or bitterness, for example, are like an acid, eating away at our minds and hearts�and even affecting us physically. They also hurt our relationships with others; who likes to be around someone who's constantly angry or bitter? The Bible warns us against becoming like someone who "dies in bitterness of soul, never having enjoyed anything good" (Job 21:25).

The first step in forgiving someone is to turn to Christ for the forgiveness we need. Then ask God to help you forgive this person just as He has forgiven you�freely and fully. An unforgiving spirit cannot live in the light of God's love.

Q:When we forgive someone for something they've done to us, is that supposed to erase all the problems between us? I've truly forgiven a friend for the deep hurt she caused me, but I can't pretend it never happened or resume our friendship the way it once was. Am I wrong to feel this way?
A:We need to forgive those who have hurt us; if we don't, our anger or hurt will become like a festering wound in our minds and souls. This is one reason why the Bible urges us to "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you" (Ephesians 4:32).

But sometimes our forgiveness is misunderstood by the other person, or even rejected. After all, when we forgive someone, we are forgiving them for something they did wrong - and they may not be willing to admit this. Or they may think we're trying to manipulate them or make them treat us better. This is why we need to focus on our own attitudes and forgive them in our hearts - whether they accept our forgiveness or not.

However, even if they do accept our forgiveness, it's hard to have the same relationship we once had. Do you remember Jacob and his brother Esau in the Old Testament? Jacob wronged Esau, and eventually sought his forgiveness. Esau graciously accepted it - but their relationship wasn't close and they went their separate ways (see Genesis 33:16-17).

One of the Bible's greatest truths, however, is that this isn't true with God! When we come to Christ, our sins are forgiven and our relationship is restored - completely and fully. Have you committed yours to Him?

Q:I know you've often said that we need to forgive those who hurt us, but what if it doesn't do any good and they just keep hurting you? No matter what I say, this person keeps doing the same hurtful things to me. How much should I put up with?
A:Forgiving someone who has hurt us isn't easy -- and it's even harder when they ignore our efforts to bridge the gap between us by forgiving them. But that doesn't mean we should give up and quit trying -- not at all.

One of Jesus' disciples must have had the same problem you do, because on one occasion he asked Jesus how often he was expected to forgive someone who had hurt him. Perhaps he thought he'd impress Jesus by showing how merciful he was, because he suggested that instead of forgiving them only once or twice, wouldn't it be good to forgive them up to seven times? But Jesus replied, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times" -- in other words, without limit (Matthew 18:22).

After all, this is how God offers to forgive us -- freely and without limit, in spite of the way we ignore Him and disobey Him. He does this because He loves us, and we know this because Jesus Christ was willing to give His life for us. The Bible says, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you" (Ephesians 4:32).

Open your heart and life to Jesus Christ, and then ask Him to help you forgive others just as He has forgiven you -- freely and without limit. Then pray for this person, and urge them to turn to Christ for the forgiveness and new life they need.

Q:Last week, my husband admitted that he's been unfaithful, and it's really crushed me. He says it's over and he wants to rebuild our marriage, but how can I possibly forgive him? Should I even try?
A:Few sins are as destructive and cruel as the one your husband has committed, and my heart goes out to you. It's no wonder the Bible says that adultery is "bitter as gall. ... Whoever does so destroys himself" (Proverbs 5:4; 6:32).

It may be hard for you to forgive your husband for what he did - but what if you don't? Instead of forgiving him, what if you allow your hurt and bitterness to keep festering like an angry sore in your mind and heart? You know the answer: Your pain will only grow more intense, and your relationship will be poisoned. To put it another way, your home will become a battleground instead of a place of happiness and peace. Do you honestly want this? I doubt it, in spite of your present feelings.

The fact that your husband admitted his unfaithfulness suggests to me that he is genuinely sorry for what he's done; otherwise he probably would have just kept quiet. Let his regret be the first step in healing your relationship.

Then ask God to help you forgive him for what he's done. The key is to realize how God forgave us - not because we deserved it, but because in His grace He loved us and gave His Son for us. The Bible says, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you" (Ephesians 4:32). Then ask God to help you rebuild your relationship by putting Christ at the center of your marriage - and your lives.


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Originally Posted by baffled2
is there a threshold of pain beyond which we are not required to forgive, one perhaps where it is impossible to forgive?...You may not feel any natural 'great love' toward the one who brought such shipwreck into your life - the one who trampled on your marriage vows,or the one who abused you as a child...no one would expect you to. But the power - and the beauty - of the transformed Christian life is that "it is God who works in you both 'to will' and 'to do' for His good pleasure." It will never be the depth of your love that causes you to forgive such heartless acts and attitudes. It will never be within your power to overlook the wicked lies and wild justifications of those who have made you distrustful of just about everybody. It will be - it can only be - the love of Christ transplanted into your believing heart that can exchange your weakness for His strength. And so because He has forgiven us - and because of His boundless life that now indwells us - what offense is too great for us to forgive? "To be a Christian," C.S. Lewis said, "means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in us." When it comes to forgiveness, our Lord would not command us to do something that he did not enable us to do. Or that He hasn't done himself...We sometimes feel that when we forgive someone, justice will not be served. They'll get off scot-free...from a human perspective, this makes sense. But our minds need to be renewed to think God's way. According to God's Word, wrongdoers will get their just due. But we're not the ones to mete out the just penalty. When we try to keep someone "on the hook," we're assuming a role that belongs to God alone...what feels like the height of unfairness,what seems to be nothing more than giving our offender the pass, actually becomes a step of freedom for us...if your heart is so bitter or vengeful - if you are being vindictive, obsessed with revenge, inwardly hoping to see their downfall - then you are still holding onto the controls. Even if you bring the offender to justice, you won't experience the freedom God offers. In reality, you are keeping yourself imprisoned by the offender...I am not suggesting that we should shield others at all costs from the consequences of their actions, or just take everything they inflict upon us and sit there doing nothing. I'm saying that their judgment before God is not ours to accelerate...we must remember that their real business is with God. He WILL repay." And Macarthur says, "For a Christian to be WILLFULLY unforgiving is unthinkable. We who have been forgiven by God Himself have no right to withold forgiveness from our fellow sinners. In fact, Scripture plainly commands us to forgive in the same manner as we have received forgiveness...since God commands us to forgive others, refusing to do so is an act of direct disobedience agains Him. (i.e. sin) Forgiveness reflects the character of God. Unforgiveness is therefore ungodly."
With all of this said, I repeat, forgiving the OW isn't something I wanted to do, my beliefs simply require it. And if you're not a Christian, think of it as KARMA. In my own case, the second OW is an alcoholic, has lost her last two jobs and continues to be unemployed, was cheated on by her own husband (go figure - you'd think she'd have known first-hand the trauma she was inflicting on another woman and family) and my husband now has an aneurysm the size of a tangerine!! Even if the offender repents, God STILL DEALS WITH THEIR SIN! They DO NOT get off scot-free!! So, Christian or not, don't spend your life seething in anger and thoughts of revenge - you're just letting those who abused you continue to do so. If you ARE a Christian and believe that holding onto unforgiveness is ok, I hope you'll do some additional study on the issue. I am NOT passing judgment. As I said, I have to WILL myself not to let bitterness and unforgiveness take over each and every day. (and remember, I'm 4 YEARS into this) The devastation of adultery has left me with areas of my life that need more attention. I don't want my H or his OW to cause me to miss out on another day of peace. If I allow that, they/Satan keep "winning," and I, for one, am ready for a little victory. I pray for peace for ALL of us.

Ugh. Maybe you are 4 years into it because are trying to forgive what is not in your power to forgive.

I am a Christian. I believe the stuff you quoted above to be a bunch of hooey. God doesn't forgive us unless we repent of our sins. He certainly does not require more of us than that.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Forgiveness by definition is a two way street leading to restoration of a relationship. It requires someone who is willing to be forgiven and someone is wanting to forgive. If you are to forgive me, I must be repentant; otherwise there will be no restoration of fellowship.

WE can't suppose that our standard is higher than God's. Who are we to forgive someone that God does not? God does not force his forgiveness on us like cheap candy, against our will. He objectively offers us forgiveness and the restoration of fellowship, but his forgiveness is not subjectively realized until we repent.

I should have read this first and then said ditto.

Well said Mel

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l2l,

I probably am in a completely different world from most other people on the boards. Here is my take on forgiveness.

I do not require nor expect the guilty party to express remorse.
I do not require nor expect the guilty party to offer repayment.
I do not require nor expect the guilty party to show regret.
I do not require nor expect the guilty party to admit their wrongdoing.
I do not require nor expect the guilty party to apologize, either publicly or privately.
I do not require nor expect the guilty party to ask for forgiveness.
I never expect the guilty party to show any sense of shame.


Would these things be great if they did? You bet. If and when it happens, I am most often shocked, and usually find myself admiring that person to some degree - with the caveat that many times the admission of guilt can be coerced, or have some sort of reward for the guilty.

So I do not expect or demand or require any of it. I cannot. Not for the sake of forgiveness, because if I do any of this the apology or the shame or the remorse, whatever it is, may come with some sort of coercion or reward at the other end. (Like the example of the husband making the OW send the apology letter. What value is it then? None.)

My sense of forgiveness is that I have to understand the innermost self of the perpetrator. What leads a person to betray his innermost voice of goodness? What leads a person to listen to his voice in his head that says, "This is wrong, do not do this," and then go against that very voice - his own - to sin?

There is only one answer to that question.

It is in this understanding that I find myself able to forgive. I understand that people driven by this voice are carried by another voice, a voice so low and deep that they are broken. Someone able to sin against me, carry no guilt, no shame, no remorse, no thought

this person is broken

at a level so broken that it carries them deeply down.


I visualize them with a brokenness before the universe that I understand I am stronger than they are. I have so much more than they have, I am so much more than they are (at least in this moment), that in their brokenness I must only view them as pitiful creatures. Bent before the universe, lost, crushed in spirit, crushed in morality, crushed within their very selves.


How then can I not understand them as just weak, pitiful, broken beings?
How can I not see how sick they are?


And how meaningless my life really is in theirs, when they are truly battling a much stronger demon............


So taking this view

I have but one choice, being the stronger one, the one who has inner peace, a walk of faith, a voice within me that speaks truth and light,

I have but one choice but to look at this poor creature and say,


"I forgive you, and leave you to God to find you. I shall pray that you find Him so that redemption shall be yours."

Because certainly his sin against me is the least of his problems.

And then, HE is the least of MINE. I have unchained this person from me - because I have a complete understanding of how this person does not belong to ME anymore. I no longer carry the burden of his sins with me, no longer carry his anchor to me.

I have released him to the One who can do something about him.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by baffled2
I mentioned two books on the subject in my earlier post: Choosing Forgiveness by Nancy Leigh DeMoss and Forgiveness by John MacArthur. As Christians we are instructed to forgive WHETHER THE OFFENDER IS REPENTENT OR NOT...whether the person who's wronged us is even still alive, in which case we wouldn't even know if he/she was repentent. Nancy states "... is there a threshold of pain beyond which we are not required to forgive, one perhaps where it is impossible to forgive?.

baffled, I don't agree that we are commanded to forgive without repentance. Jesus says otherwise: If your brother sins, rebuke him, and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him (Luke 16:3-4)

Forgiving without repentance is not God's standard of forgivness for US, so it makes no sense to imagine that we have a higher - or different - standard than God. This is like saying we should forgive someone that even GOD has not forgiven. God does not hand out forgiveness like cheap candy to those who don't want it so why would we? Who are we to say that we are better than God and should forgive someone that he does not?

I agree that we should be willing to forgive those who ask and who are repentant but forgiving those who don't want or need our forgiveness is little more than an empty feel good measure that achieves nothing. It most certainly does not affect the offender in any way, shape or form. Empty, feel good, and meaningless.

The purpose of forgiveness is to reconcile with our brother. In the case of the OW, it would not be wise to ever reconcile with such a person.

Thankfully, one does not have to offer fake forgiveness to alleviate resentment. That can be done without an empty act of "forgiveness" that is unwanted or unneeded by the OW.

This subject is covered well in the book Bold Love by Dr Dan B Allender:

Biblical forgiveness is never unconditional and one-sided. It is not letting others go off scot-free, "forgiven", and enabled to do harm again without any consequence. Instead, forgiveness is an invitation to reconciliation, not the blind, cheap granting of it.

Jesus says, "...If your brother sins, rebuke him, and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him (Luke 16:3-4). Jesus makes it clear that forgiveness is conditional. We are not to rebuke unless a sin has been committed, nor are we to forgive unless true repentance has occurred. This strikes many Christians as wrong...


The point for us is crucial. Reconciliation is not to be withheld when repentance-that is, deep, heart-changing acknowledgment of sin and a radical redirection of life-takes place in the one being rebuked. Nor is reconciliation to be extended to someone who has not repented. Forgiveness involves a heart that cancels the debt but does not lend new money until repentance occurs. ...cheap forgiveness-peace at any cost that sacrifices honesty, integrity, and passion-is not true forgiveness.
The authors go on to say that the Christian should remain open and receptive to forgiveness but forgiveness should not be cheap...

pages 162-163:

A forgiving heart opens the door to any who knock. But entry into the home (that is, the heart) does not occur until the muddy shoes and dirty coat have been take off.

So there remains a desire for forgiveness and redemption...

Forgiveness always involves the strongest emotions of the soul. It always beats with a fervor for the offender.....

ITA. I will fully forgive someone who fully repents and asks for forgiveness and not before.



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Well put, "Schoolbus." Thanks for your perspective.
Unfortunately, it appears that...

This sure seems to be a forum full of condemning, judgmental Christians � and on a topic such as forgiveness, an attribute of the Christian walk! Please! It�s no wonder some are turned off by Christianity and it�s a wonder that anyone gets any real help from this site when contributors are so quick to prove another wrong, Melodylane, or �hooey, hooey� their thoughts, SmilingWoman. Maybe it�s time for a re-introduction to the Gospel for this group. Some of you can say you�re �recovered� and no longer carry any bitterness in your marriage WITHOUT forgiving the OW, but you�re fooling yourself if you think you aren�t still holding onto bitterness � you just exude it to OTHERS! Which proves MY point on the need to forgive.
�Learning2love,� I�m sorry that this thread took on a life of it�s own and I pray that you and �lurioosi2� and �teaser8,� find the peace you are searching for. As for myself, although new to MB, I will be sesarching for a more accepting, compassionate group of strangers with which to interact. It seems that there are a select few here who feel the need to respond to most every post and only want their views heard � talk about �one-sided!� Exchanging ideas, great. But bullying is not acceptable in a marriage or in any other platform... a Love Buster, for sure! Just because one knows the Scriptures, doesn�t make him/her an authority, much less mean that he/she even walks the walk...just look at Jim Bakker and Ted Haggard! And with this, my FINAL post,thanks, but no thanks to MB." Good luck to all of you.

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Originally Posted by baffled2
This sure seems to be a forum full of condemning, judgmental Christians � and on a topic such as forgiveness, an attribute of the Christian walk! Please! It�s no wonder some are turned off by Christianity and it�s a wonder that anyone gets any real help from this site when contributors are so quick to prove another wrong, Melodylane, or �hooey, hooey� their thoughts, SmilingWoman.

baffled, folks who disagreed with you did so respectfully and politely; you owe them the same. There is no reason to condemn and attack others for disagreeing with you. That is most certainly not an attribute of the "Christian walk."


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Originally Posted by baffled2
Please! It�s no wonder some are turned off by Christianity and it�s a wonder that anyone gets any real help from this site when contributors are so quick to prove another wrong,

The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

I am baffled, baffled, why it is ok for you to "prove another wrong" but not ok for others to challenge your understanding of the Bible? There are many Christians who disagree with your interpretation of God's command for forgiveness. There is nothing wrong with a respectful discussion of those differences. But there is something wrong with being disrespectful to those who disagree with you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Somehow, I KNEW you'd be sitting right by your computer ready to pounce on my post, MelodyLane! I'm laid up from a hip-replacement - what's your excuse? I also knew that you'd find no fault in your responses or attitude and would try to turn this all around on me. That's ok, because I know that even though my opinions may not be in alignment with another's, my heart is in alignment with God. And now,this REALLY will be my last post. I don't have to have the last word.

Stand up and be counted today...the world is looking for Christians who are real! "This is a war and there is no neutral ground. If you're not on my side, you're the enemy; if you're not helping, you're making things worse." (Lk 11:23 Msg) Happy Sunday...it's time to shine laugh

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baffled, I hope you can forgive those who disagreed with you and get over your bitterness. smile God Bless...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Quote
forgive |fərˈgiv|
verb ( past -gave ; past part. -given ) [ trans. ]
stop feeling angry or resentful toward (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake : I don't think I'll ever forgive David for the way he treated her. See note at absolve .
� (usu. be forgiven) stop feeling angry or resentful toward someone for (an offense, flaw, or mistake) : they are not going to pat my head and say all is forgiven | [ intrans. ] he was not a man who found it easy to forgive and forget.
� used in polite expressions as a request to excuse or regard indulgently one's foibles, ignorance, or impoliteness : you will have to forgive my suspicious mind.
� cancel (a debt) : he proposed that their debts should not be forgiven.

STOP FEELING ANGRY OR RESENTFUL :
check

CANCEL A DEBT :
check

My forgiveness of OW was never forced.
My forgiveness of OW was slow and came at a pace very comfortable for me.
I have to admit, I do not miss those angry & resentful feelings.
OW rarely occupies any space inside my mind.

I always find it interesting that we often speak of waiting for the offender to ASK for forgiveness before we give ourselves permission to jettison anger & resentment.
In this case, a person (OW) with whom we are supposed to have NO CONTACT.

I live with a chronic disease that is much worse when I feel the stress of negative emotions. Especially chronic long term negative emotions.
I live better (healthier) without that stressful angry resentment.

I never want to speak to OW again, as long as I live.
How the heck am I supposed to allow her to express her remorse? NC, read my lips, means NO contact what-so-ever.

Additionally, we sometimes need to forgive the deceased.
With whom we certainly maintain NO CONTACT ! shocked

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Originally Posted by learnin2love
Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has experience on forgiving the affair partner(ow)? This is something that I know I am going to have to do. I don't want to walk around with anger and resentment forever. Its only been 3 months but I'm tired of tired of her consuming my thoughts. I also know that we all fall short and if God can forgive me for all the rotten things I've done, surely I can forgive her!... But how??

TIME

(and 3 months is not nearly enough time)

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Originally Posted by Baffled2
And with this, my FINAL post,thanks, but no thanks to MB." Good luck to all of you.

Ooopsie.
You forgot and posted after your "FINAL" post.

That's OK.
Goodbye and good luck to YOU!

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Thank you everyone for responding. I realize its just going to take some time but it is something I will eventually do with Gods grace. The ow was somewhat of a family friend but I intend to never have contact with her. I just see her often because I live in the same small town and she works on my street as a home health care aide but I think the man she was taking care of died so I haven't seen her car there lately. I'm just sick of being consumed of her. I'm tired of walking around bitter and " wishing she would do or say something els"... But also I know that God loves her just as much as He loves my husband and although I will never have contact with her, I want to eventually release her to God and let Him carry this burden.

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