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She told me about #1 after I exploded on our anniversary. # 2 I only learned about by tape recording her in her car and I actually caught her talking to herself and justifying that he "was something she needed then to feel good about herself." The denial on this continues to this day. I cannot push on it as that has gotten me nowhere. She is struggling through nursing school and gets rattled terribly easy by instructors, tests etc. I do believe she is former at this point. When I pushed last winter spring she failed her courses in school and so I am sort of stuck till she graduates (hopefully mid December). I have waited this long... and it is easier now. No I know we will never a good marriage till it is out in the open. I have not even told her that I now know without question who it was. The healing going on is not the marriage it is me.
I have been immersed in self hate beyond anyone's immagination. I don't feel safe so Vibrissa I don't disagree with you. We have the same end game design.
When she finally learns that telling me #1 was "just a friend" what this board calls "EA" .... I will begin to feel a little safer. I continue to think that Plan B once she graduates may be the only way (High Risk / High Gain strategy) to make it come out if it is ever to come out. I cannot live in fear for the rest of my life.
Having done well with elimination of my yelling.... I have also probably bottled up some anger. Really just realized how pissed I am after my previous post today. But I have learned to seperate my anger emotion from my actions. But I have to tell you I am wicked pissed (my New England roots showing)!
I did not plan to look at the board for a couple of weeks and decided over lunch to come back and admit that I am SOOOOOOOO ANGGRRYY! Funny but since I did not have the release of yelling anymore, I didn't realize just how pissed I really am. Better that I tell this board how angry I am than risk the love buster of yelling at her about it.
So I am PISSED OFF. I did NOT deserve this. If my yelling was so bad she could have left me, divorced me etc.
Instead she chose an action that if I ever found out about it was sure to virtually kill me. That is incredibly selfish and incredibly mean. And to continue to not tell me when she knows I am suffering is horrible. Its a little easier for me to deal with because I ignored all her warning about what my yelling did to her (it was normal in my family growing up). I just did not see what it did to her and even now I don't understand how I could have missed the pain it caused her.
But... she has seen real reform from me. I have acknowledged my yelling to her family and to mine. I have demonstrated that I can break the pattern of verbal abuse (mostly volume and witty comments).
Yup, I am ANGRY. But I will not take it out on her. That would do nothing good at this point (it never did. Why try and make it work now.). Heart to heart talks havenot worked either.
At some point (when she graduates I will have to decide to sweep it and live with it or leave).
I don't feel safe.
Well, had to say it.
Thank you for being there.

ME: BS age 56 male
FWW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10

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Originally Posted by hurtingturkey
She told me about #1 after I exploded on our anniversary. # 2 I only learned about by tape recording her in her car and I actually caught her talking to herself and justifying that he "was something she needed then to feel good about herself." The denial on this continues to this day. I cannot push on it as that has gotten me nowhere. She is struggling through nursing school and gets rattled terribly easy by instructors, tests etc. I do believe she is former at this point.

No, she isn't. She is not former. She's just not CURRENTly wayward. But she is in NO WAY former. You don't push - you make her changing her ways to those that are completely transparent and honest a condition of recovery. Go read

Wulffpack_girls's thread in Recovery Start here

THAT is what a wayward wife WORKING on her 'F' looks like.

Your wife hasn't earned that F and giving it to her without her earning it is not only enabling, it is disrespectful to the wonderful women who HAVE done the work it requires to earn that F.

Quote
When I pushed last winter spring she failed her courses in school and so I am sort of stuck till she graduates (hopefully mid December).

It isn't YOUR fault she failed, it's HERS. You are not only enabling her, you are disrespecting her by keeping her from being accountable for her own actions. She isn't a dog or a child who doesn't know better. She is an adult woman who can take the consequences of her actions and do the hard work to repair the damage she's caused.

You sound like you are in a lot of pain. This is something a wife working on becoming a FWW would be HELPING you with.

She isn't.

You aren't in recovery.

It is good that you are working on yourself. You have a lot of work to do there. Are you taking anger management classes to help you deal with the anger?

I STRONGLY urge you to work on your plans for Plan B. You CANNOT sweep this under the rug. CANNOT. You can't just 'deal with it' and 'get over it' you really can't. The anger and resentment that will cause in you will destroy you.

Your wife is wayward and unrepentant. She is abusing you as we speak.


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Vibrissa: I have been working with a female therapist more than once a week for eleven months on anger management. I actually believe it is a blessing to realize that I am ANGRY at my FWW.
Today, aftern eleven months of work I can finally recognize anger and act appropriately anyway. Its almost cheerful - gleeful to be able to type that. I CAN BE ANGRY and not hurt anybody. I stopped hurting my family months ago and now, suddently I am not hurting me anymore! That is a victory for me that I have to celebrate! What liberation not to be chained to an emotional tantrum when I let myself feel anger. I guess you would have to be me to know how far I have come on this issue. Last December I did nothing but worry that now that I realized yelling was wrong that I might yell anyway. I was so used to yelling that I could not easily be sure I could prevent myself from yelling. So admitting that I am angry with her does not mean I am going to yell or that I feel like yelling. I don't.
I have been enslaved by a pattern of behavior for years that hurt those I love and me. Today, I feel fredom from it for the first time and that brings a smile to my lips because although it may make things better for my FWW, it actually rewards me many times more.

Be certain I know very well I am not in recovery. The casualty that really hurts me the most right now is that I finally fell out of love with my FWW and I had been totally in love with her for 12 years +.
The unrepentant part of her behavior is more than a little troubling. Its total frustration at times! But at the same time, I have been there as a reforming verbal abuser and it was not until discovery of the A occurred that I took a long look in the mirror and dived into the books on verbal abuse written by Patricia Evans and saw myself. Since I am 56 years old, homely to begin with (typed with a smile), and shy everywhere except at work, I have no intentions of attempting to awaken my wonderful and gentle FWW with an A of my own.... And no, you won't hear me say the A was the best thing for me..... But without it, I would never have really looked at myself. Somehow, my yelling was hidden by a fog so thick I never saw it. To this day it amazes me - yet its common with verbal abusers. I am not proud of my verbal abuse. Recognizing what I did eventually drove me to consideration of my own extinction in combination with my grief and pain over the A.
I received two plus months of counseling from Steve and continually heard cautions about patience. You can't force the process with my background of yelling to create control.
If I go Plan B it is simply best in my situation to wait for mid December. I will have done my support as a husband. I have to tell you, my wonderful gentle wife (at least she once was that and I like to remember that because it keeps me going sometimes) is at least not a practicing adulterer on the moment... I have to take solace in that.
20 years ago with my first wife I had to deal with an on-going A involving my best friend (he isn't now of course).
You are correct that I am being abused as we speak. Only I am growing stronger now than I was a year ago. Honestly, its easier for me to deal with when I realize how I ignored her protests of pain over my verbal abuse.
I am not afraid of Plan B. I do worry about my eleven year old. But I definitely see that if my FWW does not recognize herself in the mirror (and she doesn't) that this marriage will end in the next year no matter what I do.
I don't want to take Plan B as revenge. Rather, if I have to go there - its really a desperate last attempt to ask her to awaken.
So then I will have to choose... Plan D or live with it.
AND yes, I am in a great deal of pain. But a lot less than the past few months....
At least you can see the emotional abuse I am being subjected to and I appreciate your honesty in telling me that is what it is.
People rarely realize that unless it happens to them I guess.
Blessings
Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
FWW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10



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Stop calling her FWW.

It will help you to see her for what she is.


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Good luck on your Plan A. Making you a better person is the BEST thing you can do for your marriage. Keep working at it and then invite your wife to join you. Either she does or she doesn't but either way YOU are better for going through this process.

Plan A is rough, but men can do it for months without too much damage being done. I think you can do it.

Have you figured out what your Plan B will look like?


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Vibrissa, not sure I agree about the FWW label. I call myself a reforming verbal abuser, perhaps a reforming wayward wife is a better description of my wife right now than FWW. If I don't find some good in her, why bother attempting to create a good marriage. There is good in her - its not black and white in my opinion.
Yes. About the only question I have for myself now is do I begin Plan B immediately after her graduation in December or wait until after Christmas for the benefit of my eleven year old and maybe to further reinforce with happy memories what we could be....
It also bothers my conscience to plan behind her back. I have never been able to lie effectively except for the lies I told myself that I wasn't verbally abusive (and that is so hard to understand when I look at it now).
I don't feel quite so angry at her this morning. Just afraid of her. And I don't want to feel this way for the rest of my life.
I can go black and even arrange to see my son without any verbal contact - I will have a fund to pre-pay bills.
It will be a tough decision because it is clearly "High Risk - High Gain" to do that. At some point I will have to weigh the risk against the pain I feel and decide if it is necessary. I expect I will not be able to make that decision until December.
Meanwhile.... I am surviving. It doesn't feel like Plan A anymore by the way. Its just who I have always been without the temper tantrums.
Blessings
Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
FWW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10

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That's the thing though, she isn't reforming. She isn't trying. She's coasting along. She is coasting along.

Yes, there is good in her, but giving her a label she hasn't earned is a lie - it is something that clouds your thinking. Lies have no place in a relationship. She is a Potential FWW. PFWW, but she isn't right now. You calling her such doesn't make it so.

Thus, YOU shouldn't be lying either. Your wife needs to KNOW that you're not going to support the status quo indefinitely. You don't have to give her details, but inform her that you cannot live with an unrepentant WW and you will not live this way indefinitely. If she refuses to change you will have to make alternative plans for your future, plans that don't include her.

If you're going to stick around you MUST be Plan Aing. Your Plan B will be meaningless if you do a shabby job at Plan A.

If you're gonna do it, do it right. For you, for her, and for your family.

Just you without the anger isn't enough.

Work on meeting her needs, be pleasant and loving, strive for time with her. Be an outstanding husband for as long as possible, give her the hope and promise of a passionate marriage. THAT will coax her back to you and intimacy. But be honest, be honest that you will not be here forever.

You're coasting Turkey, it's time to start Marriage BUILDING.


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Originally Posted by hurtingturkey
I did not plan to look at the board for a couple of weeks and decided over lunch to come back and admit that I am SOOOOOOOO ANGGRRYY! Funny but since I did not have the release of yelling anymore, I didn't realize just how pissed I really am. Better that I tell this board how angry I am than risk the love buster of yelling at her about it.

HT, my fear for you is that she will do this again. Her adultery is about the cruelest behavior she could inflict upon you. No doubt it triggers your anger. It would make anyone very angry.

The solution to her adultery and your anger is to implement this program. That starts with radical honesty [something neither of you practice at all!] and steps to affair proof your marriage.

What about signing up for the MB online program, HT? Can you persuade her to do that? If oyu did this, your assigned coach and Dr Harley could work with her about getting honest about her affair. The online program is the same as the weekend forum except that you now watch the seminar online. online program


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Vibrissa and ML,
I fear exactly what you said Melody Lane. Its probably why I don't feel "In Love" anymore. I have to consider that she fears my yelling will come back. Or that the truth will lead me to don myself in. I came close in mid February last year and she knows that as do I.
I am confident my Plan A is working as well as I can possibly make it without me lying about how I feel. Yes, she does know I am dying inside and constantly in pain. Or does she see the most recent conversation (three weeks ago) where I gently and humbly told her that as an attempt to control her? All of my training on verbal abuse aims a anger management and letting go of control. I think I have found a balance between bending over backwards and control / coersion. All sorts of emotional changes have taken place in me the past three or four weeks. I went from intense self hatred, to simple recognition of my own selfish faults, to really enormous anger at my whatever I should call her " Wife Who Was Wayward And Won't Admit #2"?WWWWAWA2? smile Its amazing that I can say that and smile for the moment (it will probably hurt again at another time). I really see the issues. There are lots of issues around deception. Even in nursing school she failed a class for not admitting a very minor charting error and was caught by her instructor.
I know that makes her weak. And potentially dangerous to me.
What a relief for me though in my journey with anger not to feel compelled to act on my anger. Even stranger and wonderful (if you have been a prisoner of your emotions) to be able to just tell this board or myself "I am angry" without it triggering an emotional outburst.
Have I married a very weak human being? Probably. BUT I have also been weak. I continue to wonder what would make her finally see herself like I did.
Where is the line between standing up for myself, supporting my wife as she chases her dream, and standing up for us and being controlling.
I think the online program is a possibility. I cannot get her back to Steve. And until December I read the online program as being something she cannot handle at the moment.
Does this mean I treat her as a child? No, and sometimes yes, but in many ways she is one. As was I with my child like tantrums and the use of my silver tongue and burning insight to win arguments at all cost.
It took realizing that I had lost her for me to wake up and start doing something. Vibrissa, ML, you should never respect me for what I did verbally (even if it was once every three months) with a wife who clearly has an anxiety disorder. Yet, I believe you would both be satisfied that my Plan A has been excellent with the exception of my reaction to the first revelation circa February of this year.
Deep down inside me, I know that I will never truly be happy without a marriage partner who loves me. Although I hear "I love you" a few times a week now, sadly I know I cannot really believe them. Yet I suspect many BS's on this board would be happy to have what I have. My therapist once described it as me living on table scraps. I know.
I guess with me, I have never had anything more than that excepting the first nine months of this marriage. I lived on far less in my first marriage. Sometimes I guess its what you get used to and everything is relative.
I will try the online program idea. If that doesn't fly I think I have run out of options except to live with it or select Plan B which I suspect has a 85% probability of becoming Plan D by default. I hate thinking of that.
Meanwhile... I am lots less angry at her today. And no matter how angry I was 24 - 48 hours ago... I have appropriately processed that level of anger and it has left me. Now just the fear and emptiness is there.
I will continue to make my home safe, secure, loving and happy for the sake of my wife and family even if I still am dying day by day inside a little bit. Until December, I have no choice in my sense of ethics.
Its a struggle but I am winning by taking care of and healing myself as much as I can.
BlHurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
?WW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Deep in Plan A
Considering Plan B in December 2010
Fixing Me and Succeeding
Struggling to Fix Us mostly by myself
Slightly Desperate but Not in Despair

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Quote
Where is the line between standing up for myself, supporting my wife as she chases her dream, and standing up for us and being controlling.

That line is determined by your desire. You cannot change her. Your actions become controlling when you are attempting to FORCE a change. When you use abusive tactics to abuse her into changing. Angry Outbursts, Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgement. All these, at their heart, are abusive.

It is not abusive to say "This is what I want, this is how I would like to be treated" and then inviting your wife to meet that need. She has the freedom to reject your invitation. Then, you have the freedom to accept her rejection or walk away.

You are under no obligation to stay and submit to abuse. Her decision to NOT recover and NOT help you through your pain is abuse.

You ask her to stop her abuse, realizing you cannot FORCE her to stop her abuse. If she persists in abusing you then you MUST remove yourself from her.

The line is defined by YOUR actions and motivations. If you are trying to force or coerce, if you make her choice for her, it is controlling. If you thoughtfully request something, she is free to say no. You have not attempted to control her, just inform her of what you need.

You sound like you have made SO much progress with your anger. I sincerely applaud you on that. It is liberating to be in control of yourself, as opposed to tossed about by the whims of your emotions.

Don't settle for scraps HT, that is no way to live. Regardless of who you were in the past, you are becoming a NEW man, one who doesn't deserve what his wife has and is putting him through.


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Vibrissa:
I know that the emotional abuse is real. It was happening way before the A's started on the part of my wife. In fact, it happend far more frequently than my Verbal Abluse (as honestly as I can recall I would guess a ration of 10 to 15 instances of emotional abuse to every 1 angry outburst on my part). I know I have changed and am continuing to change for the better. I don't deserve applause for that change even though you gave it.
"just because I no longer rob banks I should not be congratulated" But thank you anyway. Its kind of funny. At work I receive lots of recognition, back slaps and approval. I could care less. At home the admiration I so badly need isn't there and has not been there for years. I so need to be recognized for the good I have done. But my ?WW seems to take all the good for granted. I am trying not to do that to her.
I don't want to go to Plan B as a punishment for my ?WW not owning up to it. Its really strange but now that I know who it was, my obsessive need to know is far less than I would have imagined. But I also know we will never have the intimacy I need if she doesn't and that scares me.
Almost two years ago (just when the second A started - course I did not know it), while skiing in Vermont with my then 16 year old step son on some very difficult trails I felt weak, sweaty and developed severe chest pains. Came in to the lodge where my wife was. I told her I felt very bad. We both stepped up to head for the bathrooms. I feared I was having a heart attack and as I stood up I looked at my wife and thought in a flash these might be my last words... "I love you." I said. I then passed out - and vomited and aspirated. My wife had walked away and not even seen me fall.... When I awakened I was treated for a severe viral infection and after 24 hours I was skiing again. The thing about that moment is that I truly though I was going to die. Absolutely. I wasn't afraid to die. I wanted more than anything else for my wife to know that I loved her. That was my wish.
I knew in that moment what was most important to me in the world. And it was my wife.
I think about that moment in time often. It defines who I was. Its terribly hurtful to realize she was cheating on me just before that day.
Then I think of all the times I used my tongue to"win" an argument or that I let myself feel superior....
Sometimes its all very confusing.
How could I love that much and yet be so hurtful with my tongue. (in reality I know the answer - my parents fought like cats and dogs yet they were very loving - always made up etc. My wife could not handle that kind of a relationship. But I didn't see it.)
Right now I suppose I have to wait until December. I also have to come to grips with the onld Ann Landers "Are you better off with them or without them?" test.
So is taking Plan B a way of me attempting to Control and force what I want?
I am not dealing with an active A anymore.
I know that I recently did in a gentle and humble way say that I needed to know - who etc. For the moment I have to accept her rejection. For whatever reason, its much easier today than it has been. But the fear is still there. If I were to get wind of any similar behavior with men again I would stop, drop whatever I was holding and run and never, ever look back. NEVER. I cannot do that again no matter what.
Anyway.. You have written a wonderful post. I have printed it and will keep a copy in my glove compartement. WIth 150 miles of commuting to work each day - your words and ML's will help me make my next decision. I just don't want to make an emotional decision or a controlling one.
Blessings and Thank you sincerely,
Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
?WW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Deep in Plan A
Considering Plan B in December 2010
Fixing Me and Succeeding
Struggling to Fix Us mostly by myself
Slightly Desperate but Not in Despair
Lots to think about!

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HurtinT

Something to consider about "recovering" waywards, vs "Former" wayward" vs "dormant" waywards.

Recovering and former waywards are actively involved in the healing process. Can you in any way shape or form describe your wife's behavior as ACTIVELY pursuing a path to heal the marriage? If not, no positively worded attribute can describe her.

I would consider her a dormant wayward because all she's waiting for is the right catalyst to get her off track again. She's not avoiding that track.

And you need to wake up and recognize that and protect your family or the hurt you feel right now? The anger you feel right now? Nothing compared to another Christmas with a ticking time bomb that may have already blown up in your face by then.

Stop being a conflict avoider. She can deal with her grades. But put her on notice she's running out of time to right the ship and she'll need to fix it while she studies.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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PS

HT - I know you're working to overcome some verbally abusive characteristics.

But nothing in the anger management recovery handbook says you have to lay down your manhood while you're giving up profanity, raised voices and clenched muscles.

You can be a man and still have a quiet voice that clearly sends the message that you are no doormat!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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KaylaAndy
You give me much to think about. And your wayward point is well taken. I truly believe your point but cannot bring myself to force the issue just now. I would rather that she leave me once she has her degree than live and be used. I have to balance my need to know and my need for honesty and intimacy with my need to know she is here because of me.
I don't now and won't believe she loves me until she opens up.
For the moment I have to hang on even though I don't want to and it is killing me some days.
But my home is pleasant, free of unhappiness on the moment (save mine), and its not so much avoidance as it is me trying to have patience on the timing of standing up for myself.
Interesting but I never used profanity. Just VOLUME and witty insights and hurtful comments - mostly aimed at her not showing love for me.
Thank you for the support and your comments.
BLessings
Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
?WW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Deep in Plan A
Considering Plan B in December 2010
Fixing Me and Succeeding
Struggling to Fix Us mostly by myself
Slightly Desperate but Not in Despair
Lots to think about!

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Okay, a first draft of my Plan B letter.
I am thinking I will execute this within 60 days. It could be as soon as this weekend or upon the completion of her schooling in December
Comments and critique would be welcome. Trust me I have no ego at all at this point yet I believe I am worth enough to stand up for myself here.

Dear (my ?WW:

I want to love you more than I do and I do not wish to hurt you. Caring for you was all I ever wanted to do even if I failed to do it properly.

I need to know the truth about the tape recording Deb. You can listen to part of it on the computer desk top. Please do not make me unravel anymore. C

I want to forgive you and I but I could not begin to forgive me until I saw the damage I created.

I want to feel you next to me more than I want to let you go yet I feel I have to today.

I want to love you freely, the way I used to
I want to be in love with you, to feel free to be in love with you as I did for 12 years even though I acted horribly with my uncontrolled temper.


For awhile now, I have taken what I can get from you. Many times it felt like nothing and sometimes like I was receiving table scraps. For now, my emotions are still alive. They are still within me.

But in my broken bleeding heart there lies hope, and deep within there lies love for you that you have never seen and I have never expressed.

And yes, there are shattered dreams, many of which I shattered on my own, but there are new dreams and I want those.

I need your help for this to happen Deb. That means you become as vulnerable as I was when I finally had to look hard in the mirror and see what I did to you.

I hope you will pick me up and hold me and tell me the entire truth about you until I don�t hurt anymore
I hop that you willlove this pain away, kiss my fears away
I want you to fall in love with me and
I want us more than I could ever express.

I want you to understand that I am not recovered yet every tiny piece of my very broken heart loves you still. Yet I have had to learn that I cannot love if I do not respect myself and I need truth from you that will allow me to forgive and begin to rebuild trust.

I need you to be open and intimate with me in a way that can only come from opening up who you are and who you have been for I cannot and should not find the courage to love a stranger.

Now, I wonder every day if we will ever have what for me was the only reason to ask you to marry me.

Yes, I will hurt but I am a man now and not a child. The child I was grew angry and had tantrums. Today, I can feel intense anger and not be out of control.

I leave in the intense hope that you will see that I can be independent even if my emotions don�t want to be.

I leave praying that you will open up the truth to me. All of it no matter what.

I leave hoping you will bring me back by telling me all of the truth no matter what it costs either one of us.

I leave hoping that you will find love for me that makes you willing to be vulnerable to truth.

We cannot live a lie that pretends.

I know that I cannot. I crave and I need honesty and if that love is not there within you, I sadly know that we do not belong together any longer.

I will be safe from myself and I will find ways to be a good father.

I simply cannot live a lie.

I need you to know that this man cannot love freely when he is not safe from the emotional pain that has visited with me.

I need you to know that I understand that you could not and cannot love freely with a man who attempts to control with yelling and anger.

I need you to know that I leave not to punish you but to try and make you understand that I must save myself from the emotional pain of living a lie with the one person I wish to trust more than anything.

I want to live with someone in love with me or I must live by myself. This is who I am.

Is this controlling behavior? No, after much research and discussion in therapy I am simply standing up for myself and saying I need these things to survive.

I watched and felt my "in love" with you disappear over the past year and that has been a tragedy that I cannot adequately express. I will not allow my remaining love to die the same death because of a lie.

I will leave you alone. When we came to be I always would have left you alone. You were far better than I and I always knew that. You seemed to choose me and I grew confident that I might be good enough for you.

I would die to protect you even today. Can you honestly say that you would choose to do that for me? I need and want someone who will and would prefer to live alone without that.

Knowing that I was not enough of a man and husband for you has aged me, and angered me at myself more than you will ever know.

I will do my best to keep up with the bills and will send you an accounting of this. I am not filing and if you choose to do so there is nothing I can do.

I have simply concluded that if you do not come for me with the truth (the whole truth and not a trickly of it) that I didn�t belong in marriage with you any longer and that this may be my fault and my hell to live in.

What I want you to know more than anything else is that I do love you. But I am so afraid of you and I cannot continue on as pleasant roommates or as a friend with benefits.

I can commit to you my whole heart, but I now need you to decide if I am worth it in your eyes after all the hurt.

I cannot live with you for economic benefit. I need love.

I have seen signs that you want a future with me. But I am massively afraid as I suppose you are of me.

Perhaps in my absence you will decide what is best for you. You are a beautiful person both inside and out in so many ways. I can understand your weaknesses and your strengths. You are a wonderful mother and friend to so many others.

I can accept that I may not be the choice for your future that you need.

So I promise you to give you whatever time you need to decide.

Silently, I have had to decide that simply giving all of me to you is not all that I need. Rightly or wrongly I need something very special back from you and that is what I long for every day.

I will hold hope that you will find me to be your future, but I will not force you to remain in a marriage with a man you are not in love with. I know that I love you and cannot lie to you yet I also realize that I lied to myself for so many years about my yelling. Its hard to understand and without my realizing that I lost you, I would not have awakened from the lies to myself. This life that we lead right now is not what God intended for you and if I must suffer hell on earth and thereafter for my sins with you I have to accept that outcome as it is entirely out of my control. I can only control my actions in the future.

Here is what comes next�.

I promise not to contact you. You may look for someone else whom you are free to love without the damage I created. I will not because I love you but that does not restrict you from finding out who you are and what you want.

Away from one another we both will have time to choose our paths but I must leave the clear message that without honesty from you�.

I cannot go on.

I want so much to need you and your love, respect, admiration and intimacy even if the truth crushes me. How else will I know if I can love that much and how else can you know that I love you that much. We all have a basic need to be truly loved for who we are and have been.

I have to assume that on Mazlow�s Hierarchy you can see that you have Food and Shelter now. I am seeing to that. The next step is that you need love of more than just family members. I may or may not be able to give you what you need.

I have made arrangements to live on my own far away from our home so that I am not tempted to check on you or bother you.

Our wonderful eleven year old son can simply be told that Dad has had to accept a job assignment away from home for a while. I will contact you through your mother and visit him from her home.

I will not, and I repeat not come to the town we live in.

Letting you go is all I can do. Letting you decide is all I want. That is not control. It�s the exact opposite.

I will not contact you at all.

I will focus on my work and on some forms of play or start school or something in my free time.

I will pray that some miracle will occur and that our marriage will turn into what we both once shared and wanted it to be. I need you to decide its worth the time, attention, vulnerability and work to learn what has been missing.

I do love you. I am not leaving to punish you. I am leaving now to allow you to decide. To stay when I feel this way would be to continue the controlling behavior (Please give us one more chance etc.) that I have done before.

I will respect your decision.


Okay - comments. I won't promise I will agree but I will listen and be a thoughtful as I can be.

BLessings
Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
?WW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Deep in Plan A
Considering Plan B in December 2010
Fixing Me and Succeeding
Struggling to Fix Us mostly by myself
Slightly Desperate but Not in Despair
Lots to think about!

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 149
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As a newbie who recently wrote a plan B letter I was told more then a few paragraphs is to long. This is WAY to long the experts will be round soon to help more.


Me-32-FWW/Him-35-CWH
DD/PA-3/10
Expo-6/16/10
PC-7/16/10-9/25/10
Moved out 8/12/10
PLAN B-9/25/10 A light shade of Gray.

"You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, " I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes" Eleanor Roosevelt
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HT, before you separate why not give the Harleys a chance to get through to her? You have coached before Steve Harley right? My suggestion would be to coach with Steve or Jennifer and see if one of them can persuade her to sign up with you for the Marriage Builders course that is led by Dr Harley.

I think that would be ideal in your situation because Dr Harley could help you navigate this in a sane way. Because of your background, I think you have gone to the opposite extreme of conflict avoiding and are very confused about how to solve problems directly. Dr Harley can help you with that.

But please don't even consider Plan B until you have tried other things.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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p.s. I agree with Thiswillpass! That letter is way too long! About 3 to 5 short, succinct paragraphs will suffice. Too many words will blur your point.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I agree with Mel - one last attempt through the Harleys to get through to your wife.

If that fails - then Plan B.

The letter is too long, you don't want to obscure your point. You want to hit 3 things:

1. You love your wife and are working to be a good husband to her.
2. Remaining with her while she is not working towards recovery is too painful and destroying your love.
3. You are willing to consider reconciliation under x,y,z circumstances.

Ensure that you identify your intermediary as the ONLY means of communicating with you.

Call the Harleys with your wife, if that doesn't work THEN Plan B.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
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Twp, Vibrissa and Meloday Lane,
Thank you for the responses. Makes me wonder if I will ever get this right. Maybe I wrote the letter too long for you to read.
I will Try to Get agreement on an appointment with Steve. If that does not work I wll make one for myself. Then I will try the idea of the MB Course with Dr. H. IF that does not get agreed upon or not worked on when we try it... I just don't think I can live up in the air anymore.

Thank you for what you do here.

May God Bles you.

Hurtingturkey
ME: BS age 56 male
?WW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Deep in Plan A
Considering Plan B in December 2010
Fixing Me and Succeeding
Struggling to Fix Us mostly by myself
Slightly Desperate but Not in Despair
Lots to think about!

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