Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 16 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 15 16
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
The evidence that the men are dumbstruck or blindsided or however you want to put it, often saying they didn't even know their spouse was unhappy according to Dr Harley is evidence that if there was ANY, and that's a big if, effort at communication, it was either indirect, or distorted by the other messages they were sending as to make it impossible for the guy to get the message.

Example, a frustrated wife says, "You never take me out." The guy knows he's taken her out before, so this becomes a defense against the attack she's just leveled. She "thinks" she just told him she wasn't happy. But she never used the words, "I'm not happy" nor did she tell him that she wanted to go out more.

Instead, she attacked and the only thing he heard was he was under attack, because she indeed leveled an attack.

So both are correct in their perception. The wife thinks she's told him time and time again, yet he's never heard what she thinks she's telling him because she attacked, not made a respectful request or complaint.

We cannot assume that the WW is being truthful, but the BH is lying when each say they did or didn't send or get the memo. It's likely each of them are telling the truth.

Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So I tend to go with what Dr H says, which is most women who betray and/or leave their husbands are not leaving abusive or adulterous men. Rather they are leaving men who simply didn't have a clue about meeting their wives needs. And few actually provide a clue he can use.

I believe most act as T.C.'s wife did and harbor resentment without actually communicating it to their husbands.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5009b_qa.html

They may THINK they are, but logically, if they were, would their husband really be dumbstruck as we see so many BH's here if they really do love their wives and yet are blindsided by their wives walking out, or having an affair?

We assume that the WW was an expert communicator and her BH ignored her requests. However, I doubt that's really true. I suspect if any requests were made at all, they were either indirect, or so buried in LB's that there was no hope of the BH understanding.

I really do believe this is the majority of cases. No man in his right mind would ignore a respectful request for change.

You lost me here EE. In general, I have found that most men ignore or dismiss their wives who have repeatedly made efforts to solve a problem in the marriage. Of course there comes a point where the LBs begin...when you are talking to a wall it happens...even the good doctor has said as much. One non-MB book that I read, Good Husband, Great Marriage was dead on from what I have seen IRL. If the H is also a WH then you have a W that is even more inclined to think "why bother" and off to A-land she goes.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
EE, I think the bottom line is that it is rarely either or. A FWW/WW rarely does as good a job communicating her emptiness as she THINKS she did. I actually said things like, "I feel completely invisible. I NEED to be phyically intimate with you more than 4 times a year. I want you to tell me if there are things about me you love. I do not feel that you love me." But obviously something about what I said was not enough because he didn't get it. However, for him to say, "Well she never told me...." would not be accurate either. It falls somewhere in the middle.

And there is a huge key. We have all encountered WW who just cannot separate their unhappiness in the M from their affair. They just cannot let go of the, "well I was so unhappy...." Because IF they can see the affair a separate....then they have no choice but to see that THEY were 100% responsible for the A. I think the same goes for SOME BH. IF they admit that the M wasn't fine, and IF they admit that maybe - just maybe - all WW's aren't Satan.....then they have no choice but to look at their responsibility in the M. And it's easier to just stay bitter and to insist that no WW anywhere can ever change. That way none of what happened in their M is ever their fault. And that includes sex.

I don't know why I never went through a "I just can't" thing with my DH regarding SF.....maybe because I have a high drive. I do know that one thing that made it easier to let my hair down with OM was him being so.....assertive about wanting me. But after D-Day, during that hysterical bonding, DH couldn't get enough of me, so it was just natural to want him as much and be even more uninhibited - after all, he was my DH and SF with him was 100% right.

I do remember one night that I froze up. And it was because in the heat of the moment his demeanor (DH) changed, he tried something, and said some words that made it obvious that there was anger and punishment in his mind and he wanted to "treat me like the ho I was." I'm not going to share details. It shocked me so much I went into "fear" mode, scrambled away from him, and started crying. I guess he could have made an issue of it (it wasn't something that I had done with OM), but instead he just sort of crumbled and held me and said sorry and that he loved me. Those were tough moments, but his response to them was part of why we were able to recover. He acted out of his love for me, not out of what my wayward behavior deserved. I think it's called grace.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by lurioosi2
EE, I think the bottom line is that it is rarely either or. A FWW/WW rarely does as good a job communicating her emptiness as she THINKS she did. I actually said things like, "I feel completely invisible. I NEED to be phyically intimate with you more than 4 times a year. I want you to tell me if there are things about me you love. I do not feel that you love me." But obviously something about what I said was not enough because he didn't get it. However, for him to say, "Well she never told me...." would not be accurate either. It falls somewhere in the middle.

And there is a huge key. We have all encountered WW who just cannot separate their unhappiness in the M from their affair. They just cannot let go of the, "well I was so unhappy...." Because IF they can see the affair a separate....then they have no choice but to see that THEY were 100% responsible for the A. I think the same goes for SOME BH. IF they admit that the M wasn't fine, and IF they admit that maybe - just maybe - all WW's aren't Satan.....then they have no choice but to look at their responsibility in the M. And it's easier to just stay bitter and to insist that no WW anywhere can ever change. That way none of what happened in their M is ever their fault. And that includes sex.

As a BH, I know I am responsible for the state of the M making my wife vulnerable.

I can also confirm, that any reaching done prior was either so buried in LBs it was ineffective, or just buried in "feminine mystique."

OK, not really feminine mystique. It was buried in an expectation that I had unwittingly built.

I find the "assertive about wanting me" comment... funny?

I was always pretty assertive about that w/ my FWW. For years I was the assertive one 99.9972674% of the time. I was the affectionate one.

She worked, she did housework, we had kids, she watched TV - I was at the bottom of the pile, and figured that was fine.

After about 7 years of that, I was just done. I had intermittently sat down with her and talked to her about how she just kept leaving me feel unloved, and it never. sank. in. It never. got. through.

So I shut down, I withdrew, I engaged in emotional divorce. My fault. Could have fought harder. She tried, but the attempts were either buried in LBs, or buried in her own perceptions. She had become so used to me chasing her, that she believed creating the opportunity to chase was trying. I stopped chasing because the rejection took too much of a toll.


I handed her a fight she wasn't ready for, and she lost, because she found someone who was "assertive about wanting" her. And that's about it. Nothing else to offer. And here we are.



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by TheRoad
What if the WW never gave oral or any form of SF that you approve of in the marriage but did OM, what then?

Then you get divorced, or you decide you can live with it.

You miss the point.

If not threesomes, then oral, then a wig, then boots, then cherry flavored lip stick. A what point is some act small enough that the WW can make the sacrifice to give the BH what she gave the OM?

Is there an act small enough?

Or going in the opposite direction WW only did missionary with the BH. WW did cowgirl with the OM.

Is it right for the WW to refuse to do cowgirl for the BH now?

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
The evidence that the men are dumbstruck or blindsided or however you want to put it, often saying they didn't even know their spouse was unhappy according to Dr Harley is evidence that if there was ANY, and that's a big if, effort at communication, it was either indirect, or distorted by the other messages they were sending as to make it impossible for the guy to get the messages.

I do not doubt that poor communication is an issue at times. But there are also plenty of women that voiced their concerns clearly and it still fell on deaf ears. We may also be biased by our own observations and experiences.

I have even told some women if I think they are being unclear to their husband when they are frustrated. I know I have been guilty of this myself and try to correct it. The vast majority of the time they admit the message may have been lost and try again (and are clear) and still nada...instead now she is a 'nag' because she voiced her concern/complaint again. Her H doesn't want to hear it so eventually she shuts up and doesn't say anything to him anymore. Her silence is taken as "well she must be good" and she is not.

I don't think it is impossible for men to understand women, but many simply don't listen. How many times have we seen the doormat/conflict avoiding BH show up here and the advice goes in one ear and out the other? Maybe FOO plays a part in how we communicate with others. Growing up in my house, you were never allowed to just sulk and say "nothing is wrong...humph" but we also paid attention to non-verbal cues and "know" each other's personalities well.

There have been many threads about the differences between men and women...some may see them as gender bashing but I see them as educational. Men will admit that professional success is important to them and spend too many hrs working instead of with their spouse or family so it is not rocket science to see that if you are working 60 hrs a week and on the weekend you want some time to do nothing but sleep in & relax by watching football or whatever that you aren't spending time with your wife.

I think most women get that after working long hours, her H would want to unwind but it seems to become a habit and she gets the leftovers. The H climbs into bed and after ignoring her all day, he wants sex. Most women are not thinking "yippie" at this point. Weird I know. Of course there are exceptions and the roles of spouse today are not like they were in the 50's but men still want to be the breadwinners most of the time and women are still seen as the glue of the family that handles most of the domestic stuff including the children. Often both genders get grief if they don't live up to this so they may even go overboard...even get angry which only makes the marriage worse.

**b_r waiting for EE to tell me how wrong I am** stickout laugh






BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 336
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 336
The bitterness and resentment that a BH can feel after finding out about an A can be quite addictive. Ever had a deep bruise or a cut you just couldn't stop poking at, even though it hurt like he77?

That's what's hard to let go sometimes -- you get so used to the pain that it almost becomes a friend. There are those who can never move past that stage and almost revel in the suffering. (One long-time poster here comes to mind.)

Dr. Harley states that this is where the BH (or BW) becomes the impediment to R. And that's where I am right now. I'm starting to liken the resentment stage to a boil -- you can't lance it until it's reached the proper stage. Do it too soon, and you can't get rid of all the bile. Wait too long, and it becomes gangrenous and amputation becomes necessary.

I think we personally went through the lancing stage in the past two weeks -- and it's confusing. You get used to the agony after a while. It's like looking at a scar and realizing the memory of the pain is starting to fade.

At some point you have to let it go -- or let them go. It's just that simple.


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,803
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,803
All I know is that, in my case, I told my H directly. "I'm not feeling good about our marriage. Something is missing. I don't feel connected to you anymore. It seems like we don't have very much in common anymore. We don't seem to enjoy doing the same things. We don't talk the way we used to. We need to start working together on some of these issues, because it feels like we are drifting apart." We had very long conversations about the issue and I certainly tried to be as clear and direct as possible. I've never been a beat around the bush kind of person.

After my A, my H very much admitted that I attempted to talk to him about our problems on a number of occasions. He certainly knew I had been feeling disconnected. He simply didn't know what to do about it. But he was very aware of the problem.

After my A, I saw some amazing changes in my H, so he was certainly capable of addressing the issues. Unfortunately, not all of those initial changes stuck, and we have done a lot of backsliding in our relationship. Certainly there are still things we need to work on, from both of our sides. I do know one thing, no matter how miserable the state of your marriage is, an A will only make things worse, never better. I will never try to "solve" my problems in such a horrendous, selfish way again.

But to make a blanket statement that men are "blind sided" by the A simply because their wives did not effectively communicate their unhappiness in the marriage simply doesn't work. I'm sure that's the case in some marriages, but certainly not all.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by TheRoad
What if the WW never gave oral or any form of SF that you approve of in the marriage but did OM, what then?

Then you get divorced, or you decide you can live with it.

You miss the point.

If not threesomes, then oral, then a wig, then boots, then cherry flavored lip stick. A what point is some act small enough that the WW can make the sacrifice to give the BH what she gave the OM?

Is there an act small enough?

That's up to her, isn't it?

Quote
Is it right for the WW to refuse to do cowgirl for the BH now?

It's amazing how that question is worded almost exactly the same format as the original title of my own personal thread here, in which I was told repeatedly that the question I was asking was wrong.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by TheRoad
[If not threesomes, then oral, then a wig, then boots, then cherry flavored lip stick. A what point is some act small enough that the WW can make the sacrifice to give the BH what she gave the OM?

Is it right for the WW to refuse to do cowgirl for the BH now?

And why don't you tell us what Dr Harley says about "sacrifice," TheRoad? Fill us in!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
I don't know why I get my questions answered with questions.

So a WS can refuse their BS any SF they did for the OP no matter how plain Jane it was.

Then a BS can refuse their WS any SF that they did with the OP no matter how plain Jane it was.

So in a WW's case her BH get's his WW to have an affair, does SF with the OM that she refuses to do with him, get's to accept that his WW put him in secpond place to the OM in the SF dept.

Then the BH is told to sacrifice, take one for the team.

Why doesn't his WW restart the affair until there is an OC for her BH to accept inaddition?

Yes this is only fair for the BH. I mean his WW made sacrifices. She stopped doing the OM, will let her BH have certain parts of her SF arsenal, didn't give the BH an OC to help raise and pay for.

Yes sir, this BH should worship the ground his WW walks on for all the sacrifices she has made. And he's so ungrateful just because he can't get what the WW gave the OM. This BH is so short sighted.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Again, TheRoad, what are the answers to those questions according to Marriage Builders? You have been here long enough to know the answers to those questions yourself.

I am not inclined to answer questions about very basic concepts from someone who has been here for 3 years. You should know the answer.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
When we start talking about wild extremes of behavior and thought that haven't even been mentioned (like where does it say that a BH is supposed to worship the ground a WW walks on just because she didn't have an OC) then it is apparent that answers aren't really being sought. Just a chance to vent more bitterness.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
I wouldn't say it is bitterness...but definitely stuck (which may be for a number of reasons) and likely a sign that a WS has not made Just Compensation.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by lurioosi2
When we start talking about wild extremes of behavior and thought that haven't even been mentioned (like where does it say that a BH is supposed to worship the ground a WW walks on just because she didn't have an OC) then it is apparent that answers aren't really being sought. Just a chance to vent more bitterness.

Yep, I agree absolutely. That is why I am not going to waste my time trying to answer his loaded "questions."

If he truly wants answers, he can take the time to educate himself about MB like the rest of us have done. There is no excuse for a poster to be here for 3 years asking such basic questions. I am not inclined to bother answering someone who doesn't even own a single MB book but still feels qualified to advise others.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Yes this is only fair for the BH.

You talk like there is an objective standard of "fair," rather than two people who have to decide for themselves what they are willing to accept or not and whether to cooperate with each other or not.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,704
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,704
One thing I have learned in education is that what is fair for one student doesn't mean it's fair for another student. Fair is subjective rather than objective.

I'm not sure what the answer is. But if one is holding bitter resentment for years. And the H or W wants a certain type of sex or sexual positions and the H or W doesn't want to, welll...there might just not be a happy middle ground. The BS might have to explore whether he really wants to resume a happy marriage with his WS or pack it up and move on and find someone that he feels he is more sexually compatible with and doesn't have holding resentment towards.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by writer1
All I know is that, in my case, I told my H directly. "I'm not feeling good about our marriage. Something is missing. I don't feel connected to you anymore. It seems like we don't have very much in common anymore. We don't seem to enjoy doing the same things. We don't talk the way we used to. We need to start working together on some of these issues, because it feels like we are drifting apart." We had very long conversations about the issue and I certainly tried to be as clear and direct as possible. I've never been a beat around the bush kind of person.

After my A, my H very much admitted that I attempted to talk to him about our problems on a number of occasions. He certainly knew I had been feeling disconnected. He simply didn't know what to do about it. But he was very aware of the problem.

After my A, I saw some amazing changes in my H, so he was certainly capable of addressing the issues. Unfortunately, not all of those initial changes stuck, and we have done a lot of backsliding in our relationship. Certainly there are still things we need to work on, from both of our sides. I do know one thing, no matter how miserable the state of your marriage is, an A will only make things worse, never better. I will never try to "solve" my problems in such a horrendous, selfish way again.

But to make a blanket statement that men are "blind sided" by the A simply because their wives did not effectively communicate their unhappiness in the marriage simply doesn't work. I'm sure that's the case in some marriages, but certainly not all.

It took considerably less than that speech to turn me around, and by that point, the A had already taken place.

In that respect, I pitty FWW. She DID NOT communicate anything to me clearly.

I attempted to communicate a problem SEVERAL times, and things would change for a while, and then fall back to the same-old-same-old. That built resentment in me, that led to me withdrawing.

A lot of the entire situation seems to be gigantic role reversals between her and I.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,621
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,621
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
H or W wants a certain type of sex or sexual positions and the H or W doesn't want to, welll...there might just not be a happy middle ground. The BS might have to explore whether he really wants to resume a happy marriage with his WS or pack it up and move on and find someone that he feels he is more sexually compatible with and doesn't hold resentment towards.
Someone take me to school on POJA here.

BH wants some kinky sex, not illegal or harmful - just al la some of what OM got with gusto. Adulterous wife does not want to do any such thing any more. Now she is earning her big fat F she wants to be as pure as the driven snow or whatever gets her off now she is done with OM.

There is no middle ground in this situation. The kinky sec either happens or it doesn�t. POJA explicitly says don�t do anything both souses do not enthusiastically agree to. Sooooo�.the adulterers gets what she wants yet again. Her BH does not get what he wants, yet again.

What?

For the record I wanted absolutely none of what wife gave to OM. I didn�t want to touch her at all any more, in fact.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,738
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,738
Originally Posted by Aphelion
There is no middle ground in this situation. The kinky sec either happens or it doesn�t. POJA explicitly says don�t do anything both souses do not enthusiastically agree to. Sooooo�.the adulterers gets what she wants yet again. Her BH does not get what he wants, yet again.

MarriageBuilders isn't about fair.

It's about building love.

And your scenario that there's "no middle ground" is a false dichotomy. There are a broad spectrum of sexual behaviors that can push the envelope for a couple, that they can find that they enjoy.

So how do you build love with a betrayed spouse that wants to experiment sexually, and a wayward spouse who doesn't want to?

In your scenario above, there's win/lose going on. To me, a couple that thinks a situation is win/lose has one of two things going on:
1. They value something in their life more than the feelings of their spouse (affair, church, bowling, whatever).
2. They have not sufficiently brainstormed and chosen ideas they are enthusiastic about.

That's it. That's your spectrum of behavior there. Either one of them has something they value more than their spouse's feelings, or they haven't broached enough brainstorming solutions.

If they sit down and brainstorm -- keeping in mind that their spouse's feelings should be paramount -- I'm certain they could come up with behaviors that would push the sexual boundaries of their marriage, yet be within the comfort zone of the wayward spouse.


Doormat_No_More
(Formerly Barnboy)
Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
Two Years Later
Four Years Later
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So I tend to go with what Dr H says, which is most women who betray and/or leave their husbands are not leaving abusive or adulterous men. Rather they are leaving men who simply didn't have a clue about meeting their wives needs. And few actually provide a clue he can use.

I believe most act as T.C.'s wife did and harbor resentment without actually communicating it to their husbands.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5009b_qa.html

They may THINK they are, but logically, if they were, would their husband really be dumbstruck as we see so many BH's here if they really do love their wives and yet are blindsided by their wives walking out, or having an affair?

We assume that the WW was an expert communicator and her BH ignored her requests. However, I doubt that's really true. I suspect if any requests were made at all, they were either indirect, or so buried in LB's that there was no hope of the BH understanding.

I really do believe this is the majority of cases. No man in his right mind would ignore a respectful request for change.

You lost me here EE. In general, I have found that most men ignore or dismiss their wives who have repeatedly made efforts to solve a problem in the marriage. Of course there comes a point where the LBs begin...when you are talking to a wall it happens...even the good doctor has said as much. One non-MB book that I read, Good Husband, Great Marriage was dead on from what I have seen IRL. If the H is also a WH then you have a W that is even more inclined to think "why bother" and off to A-land she goes.

So are you saying MB doesn't work?

Or are you saying even though they made efforts, they were not using the program that works, and possibly their work was doing even more damage.

Efforts are great, but we all know it's not the amount of work one does that is measured, but the quality of that work.

Go read the story about Why Women Leave Men. These are not men who are abusive, lazy, or anything else. They too are engaged in efforts. The question for BOTH the WW and the BH is are they engaged in the efforts that will maintain, or restore and maintain romantic love.

Just as the wife is telling her husband he's not engaged in the right efforts, if the message is not getting the desired results, is the message being delivered in an effective manner, or does the message destroy any possible hope for change?

Page 7 of 16 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 15 16

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 134 guests, and 71 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Qwerty1234, Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY
71,738 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,811
Members71,738
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5