WantHealing,
If you are on this site to save your marriage, then follow Dr. H's principles and DO NOT contact OM for any reason.

Gamma

How old were you when you found out?

At what age do you think you should of been told you were a OC?

How did you find out?

I don't know your story, but was it possible your parents feared losing you. Especially if you were their only child. And it is said there's more people wanting to adopt then babies available.

Moderator's edit: personal attack.

Please contact a moderator for clarification.

I'm disappointed in this moderation. My post was general and was not directed at anyone specifically by name or insinuation. That being said, maybe it wasn't the best way to communicate so I'm sorry if I came across the wrong way. I'd like to try again:

Imagine the following situation- a MM has a one night stand with a single woman resulting in a pregnancy. He confesses to his wife who graciously agrees to forgive him. Together they decide they'd like to raise OC. The woman delivers the baby 9 months later. Prior to checking out of the hospital, the woman falls asleep. While the woman is sleeping, MM checks the baby out of the hospital himself and brings him/her home with him.
After discovering what's happened, the woman contacts the police. The police tell her that because the legal standard is 'what's best for the child', there is nothing they can do as the mother of the baby is MMs W in the eyes of the law. Furthermore, the police admonish her that if she is caught trying to contact the child, she can expect to be arrested.
Finallly, MM comes to this forum admitting that he feels guilty for stealing the baby away from his/her mother.

Can anyone honestly say that they would give the same advice prevelant on this thread?

Here is the difference, as I see it. The MM's wife probably had no contact with the OW throughout the pregnancy. If he's serious about saving his marriage, neither did the MM. They did not take part in this pregnancy at all and had no connection (other than MM's DNA) with the unborn child. Then, they just suddenly show up at the hospital and take off with the child. In the scenario, I don't even see where a DNA test was performed to prove MM WAS the father of the child, and usually one wouldn't be done until after the child was born. Since the OW may not have even put his name on the BC, and MM wasn't married to HER, he has no legal rights whatsoever to this child at the time that he removes it from the hospital, so his actions would be considered kidnapping.

In my case, my H was very involved throughout my entire pregnancy. He went to my ultrasounds. We picked out names together. He was there when the baby was born. OM did none of those things. My H became a father to our OC by being there for her throughout the pregnancy. Did the MM or his BW in your scenario do that?

Give me a break! It is not the same thing no matter how you rework the scenario.

I hope it didn't come across like I was agreeing with her, because I most certainly was not.

Of course it's not the same.

A woman's H is considered the legal father of any child born into the marriage. The only way to change that is if the OM challenges paternity, and in order to do that, he would have to go to court.

In faithcontender's scenario, the MM has no legal rights to the child whatsoever. DNA has not been established. When a single woman gives birth, she is the only one who has legal rights to her child until she puts a name down on the BC or signs legal documents naming the father of the child or a paternity test is done to establish the identity of the bio father. The MM wouldn't be allowed to remove the child from the hospital in the first place, because nothing has been done to establish his paternity.

Please contact a moderator if you have queries about an editing decision. Do not start an argument or a discussion about possible situations on the thread of someone seeking urgent help.

Sorry writer, I was referring to the poster faithcontender, not you!

**************EDIT***************

I am reposting my previous reminder for those who missed it.

********EDIT***********


STOP!!

faithcontender,,,,,,i understand the question you are asking as the moral issue of:

"isn't what's good for the goose, good for the gander?"

the simple answer to the morality of the question is, yes.

BUT

the problem faced by those here is not simply a moral issue it is how to save a marriage after the stinky stuff has hit the fan

the morality was thrown out the window with the act of adultery. then complicated by marriages, COM and the conception of a child

those additiional factors throw a whole ton of people and scenerios into the pot

this forum is to help those struggling with this issue rebuild and save their marriage. that is where the advice and principles referred to here come into play.

Awesome post, pops!!!

I didn't see the edited material earlier in the thread, but I'm the newbie FWW who originally posted this thread. And so far I've been doing everything Dr. Harley suggests: repentance, exposure to my BH (but not to anyone else yet, at my BH's request), NC, and now working on 15 hours of quality time...but because there's an OC, I'm still stuck in this dilemma of the OM. We're dealing with court now re his rights vs my BH's rights re OC, and it's hard on our M. We're so worried about being forced to share custody, which will not work for my BH. He's not willing to share OC. So...then what? How can we stop that from happening? I'm desperate to protect my BH from a life dealing with results of my sin.

I just re-read your thread. OM performed his own DNA test, but when he petitioned the court for paternity, his claim was denied.

It sounds as if there has been no court-ordered DNA test. Is that right?

Does your lawyer think that OM has grounds for the appeal to succeed? You cannot just win an appeal because you don't like the result. If the lower court said (in effect) that an outsider has no right to force a DNA test on a married couple, and that the married man is the legal father of the child, then the higher court would have to have a legal reason to change this decision. Ask your lawyer what that legal reason would have to be. Would there be a higher court to which you could appeal, if you lost?

Either the law that says that a married man is the father of the COM must be upheld, or that law must be changed. I don't see how judge can change the law in his courtroom.

But I'm British. I know nothing about laws in your states, but your lawyer should be able to reassure you.

You do not know what "shared custody" would mean in practice. it might mean the typical every-other-weekend plus one night a week that bio fathers get, or it might mean less because your child is so young. Respectfully, don't think your H can know what he would do until he receives a court order. I imagine that he would find it very hard to walk away from a child that he has grown to love, so please don't panic.

This is an awful situation for you to be in, but I think you can only take legal advice now and wait for a decision. You shouldn't believe that the worst-case scenario has already come about.

Keep being the best wife you can be for your H, and of course, maintain NC with OM.

Thanks for your encouragement, SC!

I shouldn't be focused on worst-case, since I never imagined my BH would forgive me and he did!

Also, you are correct--no court-ordered test yet, thus the OM has no legal rights to OC yet. The presumption is that my BH is the father since we're married, but OM can contest it due to the PA. My atty says this whole scenario is unprecedented, so my atty can't give me answers one way or the other. So I'll take your advice and just focus on the good and on my BH and have faith that it will all work out.

You need a new lawyer this is not an unprecedented case. Cases like this have happened across the US already. As to our limey friend our law is based on English common law so the advice that they gave was correct.

Another reason to fire your lawyer. A person from another country can give better answers then him.

want,

As TheRoad says, this is not unprecedented in your country. There was a case discussed at length here on this forum. It caused huge dissent, because some people, of course, believe that a bio father has the same rights over his child as a bio mother. They felt that the FWW did not have the moral right to keep the child from its father, OM, using the marriage as a barrier.

It is an argument that you might want to read about, but it should not be interjected on your thread by someone who thinks you are doing something immoral.

The judge is a previous case disallowed an access claim from OM, saying that in a marriage, the H is the father. Only the legal H could context paternity. OM technically did not exist.

Your lawyer needs to know about that case. I know your laws vary from state to state, but that judgement must have been based on a common legal principle, I should think. Depending on how far it went, it might even have established and clarified the existing law, meaning that your judge is bound to follow it.

I will search for the thread and bump it, later. I take it, meanwhile, that you have read the thread "First and Foremost", recently bumped on this forum?

What state are we talking about here???


It may very well be "unprecedented" in her state (which is better than the majority of states where the common law "paternity presumption" has been altered in favor of OM's by the Legislatures and Courts of that state). As I recall, about 33 states give bio-fathers a few or many rights whereas only 9 still maintain the "presumption" and protect marriage/families. The remaining others, as I recall, haven't addressed the issue at all in the Supreme Court of that state nor in their legislature.

In general, (meaning MOST of the time but now all the time)....OM's eventually give up and somewhat gladly walk away from their bio children without a fight. They may push at the beginning to make appearances and you certainly must carefully plan to protect your legal interests but stand firm and MOST OM's will back down.

Later...if he doesn't, you MAY offer up some kind of settlement that works for him AND you all (the OC included). Neither you nor him likely wants an all out push for a protracted and EXPENSIVE legal battle. The family in the Kentucky case that was discussed here at length had a unique situation....an unrelenting and abusive OM versus a family of lawyers. The BH and the grandfather were both experienced litigators. The grandfather practical fought the whole case...because of this they had the ability to stand firm on opposing the OM in all instances and at whatever cost.

You aren't likely in that position and if OM presses it and successfully jumps many hurdles (not giving up and walking away) you will likely have to settle (this also depends on the laws in your state). At that point you MAY have to make some accommodations regarding visitation. At least you'll get some child support out of the matter and perhaps reach an agreement whereupon bio-dad gets visitation for 2-4 weeks every summer after the child reaches the age of 5 or some other manageable settlement insuring very limited contact btwn him and you (and your family). You can start VERY SMALL and negotiate up from there. It's not like bio-dad/sperm donors in these situations are ever going to get every other weekend and Wednesday evenings.

Mr. Wondering