1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS?

No, did not fall out of love, however it has been a long, slow painful grinding away to where I am now 'all out of love'. I did have stretches where I really questioned if I could love this person ever again.

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?

Yes, I questioned my resolve to continue to work towards saving the marriage often. I eventually did give up. I should clarify, my WW is STILL in an active affair and at no time has appologized, nor expressed any desire to recover.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?

We went to IC but never marriage counseling. I received coaching from SH here. WW talked to Jennifer for about 5 minutes once. Again, there was never a desire from her to stay married and there still isn't.

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?

Not Applicable. However I think I would have been very receptive to them if they were offered.

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?

Incredibly. No SF (for me anyway) since April 2009.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?

Absolutely nothing.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?

Not applicable.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)

Not applicable.


I do want to echo what somebody else posted earlier. If you are the FW spouse, treat the fact that your BS is willing to try to work things out as a gift. A huge gift.

wow. ok.

i found out about what i thought was an EA on december 4th. my husband confessed it was actually physical, last thursday. we havent hugged, kissed...nothing. he has been sleeping on the couch. i can hear him crying. i can hear him getting sick. while my heart is broken, i can see/feel his breaking. i want so badly to hug or kiss or be intimate, but i just dont know if that is "letting him off the hook". or if he thinks once i do that all is ok, forgiven and shoved under the rug?

There was no rug shoving under going on. It was bonding and filling a need during a crazy time. Only you can know if it's what you want. I don't think a freight train could have stopped me.

Have you exposed? Do you know it's over?

yes its been exposed.

im about 99% certain its over. the remaining 1% there is so real reason or suspicion for, just typical feelings after being betrayed, i think. i can never be 100% certain of anything anymore. all trust is completely shattered.

lily..I am currently a BS but I was a WH about 14 years ago. My loving wife...who is now a WW took me back and while I wasn't trying to continue the affair I just went thru the motions to make her feel better and I thought I was really trying to do things better but I wasn't.

I never understood, I didn't go to get MC which she asked me to do. I didn't understand the way I should be loving her and what I was doing to her by my actions of spending time on the computer and making her feel like everything else was more important than she was! OMG what a huge mistake that was..

She tried to tell me but I just didn't understand and didn't want to understand I guess. Now that she is WW and our marriage is in a bad place and I am now the BS I totally UNDERSTAND...OMG..This was the most painful thing I have ever went thru and I wish/hope my wife will understand now that I get it and I wished I could go back and change the way I acted and treated her during the time between our affairs. Thanks to this site I have learned so much about myself and about marriage and affairs..

I guess the advice I am trying to give you is..make sure he understand and he is COMMITED to REAL change and he can't do it for a month and then go back to the way it was. The other thing I have learned is about being completly open and transparent. I never realized I should never have things to hide from my wife. But I did..not on purpose but none the less.. I did. I have since tried to give my wife EVERYTHING so she can see I am not hiding anything and I even told her..if I ever seem to be hiding something LOOK into it because I don't want to hide anything from you EVER.

I wish you luck..I know feeling are probably all over the place but I think with a proper MB plan it can be saved...and you can regain a GREAT marriage..
Good luck!

Lily2009,
Hi there again, you asked about the hugging, in the beginning when I first found out about my husband's affair, I was so distraught I needed someone to hold me, he was the only one around so I figured he put me in this place he was going to help me, it calmed me down, he didn't really hug back at first but I hugged him and told him I still loved him, that I remember the man he used to be........
Of course he was still in affair fog, he really didn't hug back at first but I think after a while he looked forward to the hugs, it was the only way we connected at first....
It was calming for both of us..........right or wrong it worked for us.........they aren't let off the hook by just a hug

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? I never fell out of love with him. I was angry with him, wanted to slap him repeatedly with a brick, wanted to kick him very hard right where it counts, but never fell out of love with him. If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? There were stretches of time when I felt like I had to work very hard to focus on "the prize", which was returning the marriage to the state I wanted it to be in. I had to be very careful not to confuse my pain and anguish with the idea that I no longer loved him. These are two very different things - and one has to be very aware that feelings of pain and anger do not erase feelings of love toward someone. You can love someone and still be angry at them; being angry at someone does not make them the enemy. You can despise an act that someone has perpetrated, but love the person and work through issues, find common purpose, find a way for the perpetrator to make amends and for the victim to forgive.

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Only every morning when I woke up, and every night before I fell asleep, and many moments in between. Did you give up? I probably gave up a million times. The key is that I started over a million and ONE. What made you want to work it out/stay? I knew, deep down inside, that I loved him and he loved me. That somehow he and I together constituted a far greater goodness and right than he and I apart.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching? My husband would not go. He just cannot talk to a counselor. We had tried this once a very long time ago, and you could almost see his skin bubble up.

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN? I was receptive to honest attempts, and not receptive to incomplete information, hedging, or trickle-truth. So the door was open, but it slammed shut when needed and he could always knock when he was ready.

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while? This one is hard for me to answer, because my husband was diagnosed with cancer shortly after d-day. We had a brief honeymoon period where sex was outstanding, then nothing for more than a year and ahalf due to his cancer treatment and surgery. It has suffered at times, due to my feelings, I would say, but we get through it.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover? He wrote letters to me, talked with me, answered questions (well, after his trickle-truth issue!). He still talks about it, and we still have occasional question/answer times if I feel a need or the topic comes up, which at five years later doesn't seem to much anymore.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
He was obviously emotionally devastated. He was open after his trickle-truth thing was over. His remorse was very obvious, however, as he cried a lot, he was physically and verbally comforting to me. He offered to leave, to expose the affair on his own, to do whatever it took to repair the marriage. He has made a 180 degree change in how he works with me around the house, how we spend time together, how he treats me around his family, how he defends me to his parents - and the result is that others see us much differently. His mom now thinks much differently of me, because HE STOOD UP TO HER for the first time in our married life together, he stood up for me. Also, he is reading MB stuff.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc) He did the homework in Dr. Phil's Relationship Recovery book, he read SAA, and also After the Affair. He has read and actually agrees with the radical honesty policy here, and has done the ENQ from MB more than a few times with me so we can stay on top of things. He has openly expressed his remorse, and talked to me about his feelings - what he was thinking, what he was feeling at that time and now. He openly talks about what he is thinking emotionally, and this helps us work out things together.

It is still hard for him to open up, though. We had a rough time over the last few days, because of his trickle truth issue. But this time it wasn't as bad as before, because he was able to just say it and it wasn't a drag out thing. We have improved so much - and our level of being friends has also improved along the way. We are working together remodeling, and although there have been a few kinks, it has helped us to do this together!

Thanks again to everyone that has responded. You have given me some hope yet again. It is morning here and I feel like some days I need something to make me feel like it will be okay (even though there is a chance that it will not be). I will keep doing the small things and hope that in time it will reach out to him enough that he wants this relationship and me again.

The fact that you

a) think of them
b) do them
c) are consistent

quickly transforms the adjective "small", into "important", and "valuable".

Good luck. We'll be here when you have other questions.

Thank you so far for the responses. I don't know what it is like to feel like a BS and wanted to get some insight. I realize I will never understand how my husband feels as I am not in his shoes and I am sorry that he is feeling the way he feels and can't say sorry enough.

The analogy of a BS as a donor makes sense to me and gives me a bit more understanding and realizing that I should be thankful he is still interacting with me at all even if he won't open up and try. Even if he asks for a divorce I will wait patiently and hope that he will be willing to make a large donation to me after what I have done.

I hope that the small things do reach out to him at some point NeverGuessed. Still he thinks we are headed to divorce and it will not work out. One day at a time.... One small action...Change the things that I can change...

I never fell out of love but of course I was very angry.


I think everyone pretty much feels like giving up but I never considered that was an option. I believe marriage is a lifelong commitment made before God - that was my motivation as well as protecting my kids etc.


We did have some counselling with our Pastor but it was frankly useless and I don't believe most clergy have a clue about recovery after adultery.

I did find MB around 6 weeks after d-day and we read all we could get our hands on and also purchased the MB home study course.


I didn't get anything approaching a heartfelt apology for a fair time. My wife was determinesd to 'fake it till she made it' though. Feelings follow actions.


She didn't want any physical contact for weeks after she moved back home. Sex was a bit weird for a while.


Transparency and a complete commitment to no contact. Reading the MB materials, working on the MB home study program, reporting attempts by OM to breach NC etc.


Seeing her work with other WW's and reading what she said to them really helped me to see that she truely got it.


It's a process that takes time - no shortcuts available I'm afraid and lots of ups and downs.

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? Don't think so although was extremely angry for months If so, when did the love return? Took two years. Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? Yes, somedays asked - why am I still here, leave him, others days - I love him, can't leaveI felt like rubberband stretching both ways in first year and a half.
2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Worst time was six months after Dday - actually considered RA. Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay? Husbands 180 turn on how he behaved
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching? Went to MC for four months - found MB and followed that ever since
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN? Not at first - went to MC only because I wanted to prove to kids I tried but expected it wouldn't work, counseling and husbands remorse got me to stay
5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while? I didn't want Sf with him for long time (months) but now we enjoy it weekly
6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover? We follwed MB principles, did questionnaires, putin place EP, stopped all contact with OW, worked at making each other happy instead of unhappy everyday
7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal? He listened, changed, and works on making my happy. He's different man
8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)Actions. We knew each other's top emotional needs and worked to meet them, we spent time together, improved communciation, I had to change some too.

And, my H would ask me daily: "What can I do for you today?" - PB

Even though 99% of the time the only answer I can give is "I don't know." - HHH

I thought about this couplet for a few days, and finally decided that I wanted to (maybe) take this to another level. PB & HHH, I'm not implying that you've not done what I'm about to describe but I just thought it might be helpful to state it explicitly.

CREATIVITY and IMAGINATION can address this "What do we do now?" issue.

WS's - By all means continue to ask the question, but consider just doing little things WITHOUT asking. Bring your BS an unrequested glass of lemonade on a warm day, or a steaming cup of coffee on a cold one. Take a bottle of window cleaner to your BS's rear car window and let them find it on their own. Bring your BS flowers for no reason (this works for both genders, btw). Make the popcorn, and acquire and watch a video that appeals to their tastes, ESPECIALLY if those tastes are ones that you dont't prefer.

BS's - These questions are opportunity to recommit fully to actively participate in this recovery process. The next time the question is asked, say SOMETHING that will move the process forward. "Tell me why I'm the one you love." "How about rubbing my neck for a minute?" "Get the pictures from last vacation and let's see who looks the worst." (Refrain from the retrograde: "Tell me again what you saw in AP." Not helpful.)

Both - Take the moment to jot an affectionate note to the other and hide it where only the spouse can find it. (Since I arise first and feed the pets, FWW once put such a note in the canary seed!)

If today is the 273rd day of recovery, you and your spouse will never again have the opportunity to improve your marriage on the 273rd day of your new relationship. Don't let this day get away.

Thanks for the recent posts. I have been doing the small things as much as I can. Most days I get up before my husband so I make him and myself breakfast and tea. I bring home little treats that I see at the store that he likes (small things like a few pieces of chocolate). I also teach and give children candy so I bring that for him. I make dinner. When he is the shower and forgets his towel, I bring it to him before he is done. So hopefully that means something, just this week he was able to rest his arms on the part of the couch right behind me (a big thing cause he had been sitting there for a couple of weeks with his arms crossed...). He's been sharing more about his days and talks more to me about his daily life when I am not there.
He has brought home some treats as well this week twice, some of our favorite chips to share and other treats.
He still thinks we are headed for a break up but I am still hopeful as he is more receptive and positive towards me this week.

Good job LL123,
You sound like things are a bit better, be encouraged, it takes time to let your guard down and feel comfortable again. I would also try to bring a bit of humor into your time spent, it's all the little things at first.....no matter how small, don't expect anything in return for now either.............
Stay strong.

How long did you harbor resentment and anger towards your WS?

When did you forgive your WS?

LL: My answers:

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them?
Yes but not initially.
If so, when did the love return?
It has not returned and its eerie.
Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? Yes, I feel that way right now.
2. Did you ever feel like giving up?
Yes, for the past three months.
Did you give up?
No. But I have wanted to up until this past week.
What made you want to work it out/stay?
I have stayed because I am stupid. WS is not repentent.
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?
Tried with MB but WS gave up. I continue with private counseling.
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?
Other than a little more time together (perhaps an extra 2 hours a week that is all I have gotten. I have stupidly been grateful.
5. Did your sex life suffer?
100% failure.
Was it awkward to have sex for a while?
100% uninterested - initially I needed SF.
6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?
Nothing directly.
7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
Nothing directly.
8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)
Anti-depressants.

So obviously we are not in recovery although active affair by WS is not going on.

ME BS: 56
WS:49
married: 12 years
D-Day 1 April 26, 2009
D-Day 2 October 13, 2009
hers: 2 children ages 18 & 22
mine: 3 children ages 22, 28 & 30
ours: 11 years old
A # 1 admitted to Jan 31, 2010
A # 2 not admitted to
Surviving one day at a time

Still in the ditches on this one. Some days, not at all. Some days, overwhelmingly. Remember; the more there is to resent, the longer it will take to get over it.


I haven't yet. I had a scary thought the other day; I could probably do it sooner if I just threw my hands up and walked away - because then, I wouldn't have to care any more, I wouldn't have to face my attacker any more.

NOT dwelling on forgiveness is how I get by. I remind myself that only time and action will earn forgiveness. I have commited myself to giving her the opportunity by giving her the time to act, if that makes sense.

What this does NOT mean, is it does not mean I wield her error like a weapon against her when I'm upset or want to get my way. It means that I am hunkered down, waiting for the clouds to clear, and making the best I can out of my little foxhole while I do.

Disclaimer: My situation as a BH with a WW was a bit atypical for these boards because of the following factors:
A. I did not find MB until very late in the game and was mistakenly living in denial about the affair due to my own �not wanting to believe it� and some very poor advice dispensed on another counselor�s website (divorcebusting.com) which actively discourages BSs from investigating/disrupting potential infidelity. I STRONGLY advise newbies to follow MB TO THE LETTER though I will never know whether it would have made a difference in my particular situation.
B. Because of the above, I did not definitively know of the affair (though I suspected the possibility and was warned by family/friends) until MUCH LATER. Thus, my exposure was much delayed and therefore utterly ineffective. My WW had plenty of time to get her �ducks in a row�, scapegoat the heck out of me, and con people over to her side/version-of-events in advance.
C. My �Plan A Carrot� (such as it was) was also very poor due to my own self-blame, confusion, and emotional devastation. A good Plan A first immensely aids a BS�s Plan B�s effectiveness & I didn�t have that either.

To answer your original questions from the perspective of a BS:

1. Yes, I did�with all sincerity and earnestness. I tried from the point of our �crisis� beginning until WW filed (~6 mo). In fact, I tried even afterward too. I learned that trying to �convince� or �entice� a WW (with moral or logical arguments especially) is an UTTER WASTE OF TIME. You may as well go talk to a tree. That is why snooping & exposure to hasten the affair�s end is so important.

2. LOL, your kidding right? My WW was utterly obsessed with her affair. She never maintained NC, she never entered NC, she never even admitted that there was an affair. Just vilified me and scapegoated our marriage to cover her a$$.

3. My WW did both. 95% of the time a wife separates from her home/husband and starts talking divorce, it is because there is some other man she is running to.

4. My WW never admitted to anything. Lied through her teeth to me over and over (never believe anything your spouse says in these situations�hire a PI to find the truth). Other than a few brief moments of mental clarity�I call them now �dipping a toe in the water��my WW made reconciliation utterly impossible by continuing to lie & scapegoat, never taking any responsibility for her own actions, refusing to leave/end the affair, and never showing any honesty, remorse, or repentance whatsoever. Recovery is impossible with a WS who doesn�t even show you/family/friends the simple respect of telling the truth and apologizing.

5. Due to my circumstances above, I discovered the full story in trickle-truth, water-torture fashion over months and months. I never had a traditional �D-day� because of this but instead a series of them that were much delayed (after our separation and even post-divorce). Thus, I didn�t get myself fully into a self-protective Plan B until much later and therefore went through �withdrawal� well after the divorce when I could finally appreciate the full gravity of who my xWW had become and what she had done to all those who had loved her.

6. Yes. Total waste of time to go to MC with a cheating spouse!. Don�t do it!!! (see below)

7. I did/have. I doubt WW/xWW ever did. She didn�t want to hear anything that contradicted her affair-fantasy or might hold a mirror to her face. Can you say �alien abduction�?

8. Yes.

A) To start, if you are the BS, DO NOT go to marriage counseling (MC). I know that is counter-intuitive advice (much of MB seems counter-intuitive at first) but do not fall for the commonly-head notion that the treatment for all marital problems is automatically �going to counseling� (individual counseling is fine and good but don�t do couples counseling). First of all, your WS is likely to receive your counseling offer as �neediness�, �desperation�, or �control�. He/she is not likely to accept anyway. If your WS does happen to agree to counseling, it will be completely useless as long as he/she is still in the affair or unrepentant. Traditional MC only �works� when both parties are basically in agreement about working together and just need someone to facilitate communication. That is NOT the case when an affair is present. Your WS will only sabotage the counseling (easy to do), use it as a forum to blame you for everything and CYA/lie about their affair, and point to it later as evidence of why they�re justified with phrases such as �we tried counseling and it didn�t work; I had no choice�. Bottom line, MC with a cheating spouse is useless at best and often counter-productive. DON�T DO IT.

B) If you are the BS, please read and follow MB plans precisely. It will feel awkward at first to not �trust� your spouse. You shouldn�t. He/she is selling you out, stabbing you in the back, and doesn�t have the best interests of your marriage at heart anymore. He/she is lost and not the person you have known for so many years. You have to follow the plans on your own because your WS has indulged a mortal enemy into your lives�the OP. The affair/OP is the cancerous enemy of your marriage and everything short of outright illegality should be used by you to get rid of them. That definitely means, without exception, that you must snoop, expose, and cut off all financial support for the affair. Plan A �carrot� your butt off to your WS and be prepared to go to a very dark Plan B and stay there until the affair ends. You are likely in a marathon not a sprint, so don�t expect instant results. The man/woman you love is a sick and depraved individual right now and the fight will take a long time to resolve.

C) If you happen to be a WS reading this, please realize the terrible trauma you are inflicting on those who have loved you for years and years. Please drop all your pretenses of justification and rationalization. Please understand that your affair, no matter how �meant to be� it feels right now is a mirage that ends in family & friendship destruction�and no �greener grass� years down the road. Your BS undoubtedly made mistakes too, but this is not the way to handle them. Please confess your affair, end it completely and permanently with NC, suck it up while you grieve the OP (who is undoubtedly a loser anyway as you will come to see down the road), and be truly repentant. You can and will build a much better life and relationship with you�re your current spouse that you can ever possibly have with a man/woman who is willing to cheat on a marriage (or 2). Don�t fall for the Sirens� Song�you�ll be sorry if you do.

Another question.

How long did it take for you to forgive? What steps did you take and what steps did your WS take to earn it?