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Northwood,
thanks, yes we are in a completely different place than 2 weeks ago, i know we are making progress. I am doing my best to continue to stay on track and be her Light House.

I am going to try to get us together to decorate, and make it fun, with no challenges.

Any other ideas, i would appreciate it. Thank you for your input and insight.

Cherish Her


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CH... YOU are the bargaining chip for her to end her A activity, not a house. NOT A HOUSE.



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Update: Please give me some Input
Ok, wife has decided financially she cant take her dream house, which is perfect, now i can move in and make it what she always wanted, MORE CARROT.

She Continues to kiss me, lounge on my lap, just like she did tonight, then BAMMO. Out of the blue, she will say, you know if we work things out, but i am having a hard time being around you, i get mad at myself every time for breaking my own promise.

I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself. (I had no answer) She even asked me to ask Dr.Harley next week, and i replied, why dont you get on the call with me. (I will think about it, which implies i am not going to do it, because that would mean we are working things out.) I know in her heart, she would love to try, however friends, family...and her EA are not helping at all.

Please give me some insight how i can combat this...

She is constantly right the edge of the fence every day, should she try, not try, should she try, not try.

Is it normal, for a spouse to have her EN's Met, and enjoy it, act like your moving forward, then Bam, its like the
logical side takes over, and they start 2nd Guessing what they are doing, and start to withdraw. My wife, has severe issues with feeling gulity about all kinds of things, and is SO CONCERED about what HER FAMILY and FRIENDS will think, if we patch things up...I have no idea how to help her here, as they think i am the Bad Guy.

Thanks CHERISH HER

Last edited by CherishHer; 01/14/11 03:25 AM.

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I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself. - CH's WW
Quote
I had no answer - CH
Dude, your answer should have been the one that you've been giving US for weeks now. I will now model it for you (ahem):

Dear, I fully understand why you would have promised yourself not to return to me, as I was. That "me" is dead. You'll never have occasion to meet, detect, see, or talk to that SOB again. Consider joining the new "me", the one I have promised to remain. We have the chance to build a wonderful new marriage and life together. I know you'll need time to believe in my new persona, so just commit to give us that time.

(This answer came so quickly to me, because it's what I did to facilitate our recovery after my WW's EA. I considered that marriage dead, and decided that the best candidate to start on another relationship with was the now fWW.)

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
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I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself. - CH's WW
Quote
I had no answer - CH
Dude, your answer should have been the one that you've been giving US for weeks now. I will now model it for you (ahem):

Dear, I fully understand why you would have promised yourself not to return to me, as I was. That "me" is dead. You'll never have occasion to meet, detect, see, or talk to that SOB again. Consider joining the new "me", the one I have promised to remain. We have the chance to build a wonderful new marriage and life together. I know you'll need time to believe in my new persona, so just commit to give us that time.

(This answer came so quickly to me, because it's what I did to facilitate our recovery after my WW's EA. I considered that marriage dead, and decided that the best candidate to start on another relationship with was the now fWW.)


I agree with NG, however, there may be other times that you take a differing approach (as you can't keep repeating the above every time she ways something like this).

You may act like:

"Yeah, you are very bad for breaking that promise to yourself...do you need me to punish you" (with an evil playful grin).

"Don't blame me...can I help it I'm irresistible????"

"It is a burden being cute and cuddly"

"That's how I roll, beeches be breaking all sort of promises to get with this"


The point is...be fun, flirty and CONFIDENT. She's conflicted about some stupid promise she made to herself while she is sitting in your lap. It's like the college/high school girl who isn't quite sure she wants to hook up with you. You don't use logic to seduce your wife...you use your male charm and confidence that attracted her to you in the first place.

That's PLAN A too.

Mr. Wondering


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Remember Withdrawal, Conflict, Intimacy.

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She Continues to kiss me, lounge on my lap, just like she did tonight, then BAMMO. Out of the blue, she will say, you know if we work things out, but i am having a hard time being around you, i get mad at myself every time for breaking my own promise.

She is testing to see if this is the real deal.

BTW, if she is sitting in your lap, I would say that you are starting to become irresistible. She how meeting ENs work?

Quote
I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself.
You could say, "I don't know. But we can work on it together. I do know that right now I want to tickle you."



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"Yeah, you are very bad for breaking that promise to yourself...do you need me to punish you" (with an evil playful grin).

"Don't blame me...can I help it I'm irresistible????"

"It is a burden being cute and cuddly"

"That's how I roll, beeches be breaking all sort of promises to get with this"
Uhhh, CH is trying to tempt a skittish white-tail dear to eat from his hand, and you want him to suggest a nice venison dinner followed by watching Disney's Bambi ?

Baby steps first would be my suggestion. (And I would think that Plan A can be fully satisfied by a less risky approach than by channelling a sophomore-fraternity-wiseguy.)

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Quote
I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself. - CH's WW
Quote
I had no answer - CH
Dude, your answer should have been the one that you've been giving US for weeks now. I will now model it for you (ahem):

Dear, I fully understand why you would have promised yourself not to return to me, as I was. That "me" is dead. You'll never have occasion to meet, detect, see, or talk to that SOB again. Consider joining the new "me", the one I have promised to remain. We have the chance to build a wonderful new marriage and life together. I know you'll need time to believe in my new persona, so just commit to give us that time.

(This answer came so quickly to me, because it's what I did to facilitate our recovery after my WW's EA. I considered that marriage dead, and decided that the best candidate to start on another relationship with was the now fWW.)


ITA with Neverguessed. EXACTLY RIGHT. You wife wants consistency from you and needs to know it can be timebound at her choice.


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It's great that she is now allowing you to meet some ENs but as long as she is getting some emotional needs elsewhere (her EA/s) then she will continue to waffle and it will be like banging your head against a brick wall trying to make real progress in your M.

Have you thought at all about hiring a PI? One of your top priorities here is finding out details of her A/s...


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Originally Posted by CherishHer
Well, after an emotional breakdown last night, we agreed she could take the house, and i would stay here, and she would CEASE EA.

I would not try to discuss this any more with her until you have gotten the goods on what is going on & with who because she will just take it further underground.


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i get mad at myself every time for breaking my own promise.
To paraphrase MelodyLane:

"Dear, the bad thing about making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise."

Last edited by maritalbliss; 01/14/11 01:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Quote
"Yeah, you are very bad for breaking that promise to yourself...do you need me to punish you" (with an evil playful grin).

"Don't blame me...can I help it I'm irresistible????"

"It is a burden being cute and cuddly"

"That's how I roll, beeches be breaking all sort of promises to get with this"
Uhhh, CH is trying to tempt a skittish white-tail dear to eat from his hand, and you want him to suggest a nice venison dinner followed by watching Disney's Bambi ?

Baby steps first would be my suggestion. (And I would think that Plan A can be fully satisfied by a less risky approach than by channelling a sophomore-fraternity-wiseguy.)

Ok Gramps...I realize you are quite a bit older and don't understand infidelity on the same level as many of us here but this guys wife was very recently in an EA and may still be in one. Her on-going complaints about her husband are quite likely being blown out of proportion by her (and by this BH in order to save his marriage) in order to rationalize and justify such emotional affair. She pulls bh near and then pushes him away constantly and if he acts like some needy desperate tape recording about how he's changed and she just needs to give him a chance all the time...every time, then THAT TOO is just going to feed her rationalizations and justifications for leaving him and/or continuing/reigniting her emotional affair. It's wimpish.

At this point...his words mean very little. If her complaints are 90-100% legitimate...he can address them SOMETIMES by statements indicating his willingness to meet her needs...however it matters much more, to the extent she lets him, DEMONSTRATING his ability and willingness to meet her needs.

Thus...in the process of Plan A you have to realize there is a woman inside that wayward head that is acting and thinking like a teenage hormone driven women that wants to be seduced and wants a confident strong man to gather her up in his arms and tell her everything is going to be all right. Included in her list of emotional needs is a need for a strong, attractive and confident man. Mostly neglected wives simply want your undivided attention and conversation about anything (i.e.-except constant whining about the relationship and getting another chance). Plan A is about meeting that need so SOMETIMES you've got to be fun, confident and juvenile to attract back a wayward thinking wife. Which is my point...DEMONSTRATE meeting needs is MORE IMPORTANT THAN talking about it.

Just the way it is for us young guys.

Mr. W


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Plan A you have to realize there is a woman inside that wayward head that is acting and thinking like a teenage hormone driven women that wants to be seduced and wants a confident strong man to gather her up in his arms and tell her everything is going to be all right.
Really? I'm glad (surprised, but glad) that evidently basing your actions on this construct works so well for you.

Quote
DEMONSTRATE meeting needs is MORE IMPORTANT THAN talking about it
So your examples of adolescent posturing and verbal preening you would envision demonstrating meeting which of her needs, exactly? Because as I read CH's note, the need his wife wants most desperately to have met is to know that CH loves her, and is willing to make the changes he has admitted are necessary to improve their marriage. Acting like "the Fonz" from Happy Days (oh, that's right, that's before your time, Junior!) seems a strange approach.

But, CH is free to read all submissions and choose his path. How about it CH - would your wife likely be amenable to being grouped with all the "beeches" that want to "get wit you"?

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Thank you So much Everyone

Wife took the house, and is really waffling between Going another round with US as she puts it and trying -vs- as she put it "Believeing in my new Persona" right now.

She keeps bouncing between, No Contact at all, as she says, part of her wants to keep her promise, and just SHOVE ME OUT THE DOOR. The other part of her, misses me, wants the new "ME" but refuses to Committ to anything at this point. Including giving me TIME. She has used the word No Contact about 8 times in the last 2 days.

I just got my Gut Feeling, that I am going to GET BOOTED as SOON AS SHE MOVES SUNDAY. We will only be 8 blocks away, we will have to share the Car, and I know, she is going to need my Financial Help.

Do i just CONTINUE PLAN A and forget about everything else all together...However being in her new house will allow me to probably Key Logger Computer. We she starts talking crazy like above, i just try to Reassure her, THAT THE OLD DICTATOR IS DEAD and LONG GONE, and he will never come back.

Shes having a very hard time believeing right now he wont re appear at some stage.

Thanks for any more advice...This is the worst i have felt emotionally in 3 weeks.
Cherish Her


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Originally Posted by CherishHer
Thank you So much Everyone

Wife took the house, and is really waffling between Going another round with US as she puts it and trying -vs- as she put it "Believeing in my new Persona" right now.

She keeps bouncing between, No Contact at all, as she says, part of her wants to keep her promise, and just SHOVE ME OUT THE DOOR. The other part of her, misses me, wants the new "ME" but refuses to Committ to anything at this point. Including giving me TIME. She has used the word No Contact about 8 times in the last 2 days.

I just got my Gut Feeling, that I am going to GET BOOTED as SOON AS SHE MOVES SUNDAY. We will only be 8 blocks away, we will have to share the Car, and I know, she is going to need my Financial Help.

Do i just CONTINUE PLAN A and forget about everything else all together...However being in her new house will allow me to probably Key Logger Computer. We she starts talking crazy like above, i just try to Reassure her, THAT THE OLD DICTATOR IS DEAD and LONG GONE, and he will never come back.

Shes having a very hard time believeing right now he wont re appear at some stage.

Thanks for any more advice...This is the worst i have felt emotionally in 3 weeks.
Cherish Her

Well...one problem I foresee is..

IF she boots you
and you keylog her and discover she's continuing her affair

you'll be in a position where you'll NEED to be dictatorish by DEMANDING, again, she end contact with the OM.

So yes...you keep plan A'ing her and meeting the needs she'll allow you to meet but you can't appear to be a wimp either, especially if she's comparing you with someone else (that's what women in EA's do...they are comparison shopping and since they can't and won't decide TODAY which purchase (errr.man) they like or want more...they continue torturing you with complete indecision and gaslighting you about how it's ALL YOUR FAULT.

You'll get an added bonus of IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT if and when you attempt to interfere further with her affair and she'll throw all those promises you've made about changing and not being a dictator back in your face as you attempt to dictate that she give up OM.


I have no idea why NG has his lizard in a tizzie. I didn't say NG's advice was wrong...I SUPPLEMENTED it with things younger newly married guys like you need to do in Plan A to ATTRACT back these younger lost wayward wives. [I'm not Plan A'ing my wife anymore Chachi and I guess you are fortunate to have not experienced how truly cool, young and hip a full blown wayward spouse THINKS they are.]

Read up on Plan A. I have a do's and don'ts list I posted years ago on the "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread in the Notable Posts forum. It may be helpful. Unless I've missed something you don't appear to have young children of the marriage and the marriage is relatively short and drama filled. You are competing essentially to get back your wife's affections and get them away from any and all distractions such that you can implement a plan to restore or should I shall attain a marriage of extraordinary care and love.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering


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Originally Posted by MrWondering
..I SUPPLEMENTED it with things younger newly married guys like you need to do in Plan A to ATTRACT back these younger lost wayward wives. [I'm not Plan A'ing my wife anymore Chachi and I guess you are fortunate to have not experienced how truly cool, young and hip a full blown wayward spouse THINKS they are.]..

This point, along with the observation of what women need for protection from thier Husbands, without feeling suffocated, old, used up and worthless is why I am backing Mr W on his outlook.

I know it will be tough to both take control and at the same time show her that you respect her, but honestly, what do you have to do thats more important than that right now?

Plan A your butt off, and win back that flower, you know, the thing that attracted you to her in the first place? Her gentle nature? You are learning where you overstepped your boundaries, and imposed your rule on her. It does suck when you think you are doing it for thier protection doesn't it?

I haven't read the whole thread, so no detailed advice, but you are in good hands and the program works.

Believing the best for you both


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Originally Posted by CherishHer
...THAT THE OLD DICTATOR IS DEAD and LONG GONE, and he will never come back.

Shes having a very hard time believeing right now he wont re appear at some stage.


And for good reason. You keep going completely flaccid. It's expected in an abusive cycle.

The dictator stomps, moans, berates, controls. When he is threatened, he goes flaccid, apologizes.

You let her walk on you with no demonstration that you can stand up for yourself without being a dictator, without being oppressive.

You shower her with gifts and attention, and shrink when she snubs you.

Yeah. It looks exactly like what it is; you are trying to win her back. She wonders where the dictator is, because this softy wooing her has only shown small glimpses of spine.

That is the real magic trick, CH. Maintaining your boundaries without resorting to LB's.


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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
That is the real magic trick, CH. Maintaining your boundaries without resorting to LB's.

Yeah sounds like this is key for a lot of us guys who are used to being in control, whether we asked for it or not,(Damsel in distress response), or are put in the position to rule because we just can, and don't have any opposition that we are forced to respect.

Because she has in the past probably been wrong in some things, doesn't mean she was wrong in everything. This is what you are learning CH, along with valuing her opinion and input in every aspect of your lives together. I know you get this BTW.

Stay strong in your convictions that this can be worked out through MB and counselling with the good Dr.H. Someone told me long ago that in order to give orders, you first had to learn how to take them. That has been a gift to me in understanding how much I needed instruction and needed to trust authority, and understand why later if able to. Until I did it, the thing ordered to do might not make sense, but acting on my own would upset the whole applecart of authority and its travel down the ranks.

I think you can understand the authority of love outranks any dictatorship. Now you are getting your butt whipped. Welcome to the club. Time and patience, peace and understanding, you will get there.

HHH is right, not losing the things that keep you alright in the universe, when you think its your job to correct others, or your responsibility to, is a tough row to hoe. Work on your side of the fence right now and see when you are tempted to cross over and tend her garden. When she wants to partake in the same garden she will come back and work willingly with you, not for you. At least that is my hope for you also in your recovery. Just keep showing her the good produce and maybe she will partake.

(sorry for the metaphors)

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Dude, you are a fixer, like so many other men. Women don't want to be fixed. I read your first post. You said you are ready to give the next 12 months to work on your marriage. What the hell does that mean? Your wife is not a problem that just needs to be fixed and put back on track. She is looking for a marriage, you are looking at her like she is a project. She is not your project. She wants to be part of you. She reaches out to you in the night and you reject her. I know about being hot at night. I have been married for 31 years. Because of that I hug my wife throughout the day or hold her hand at night.

She just wants to be the top of your list. Can you do that? Women will look over many shortcomings in their men. Because they are designed to be supportive. But they must be cherished. They must be made to feel that they are the hub of your world. She wants to know that you will sacrifice your own plans or goals in favor of your marriage or connection with her. She doesn't care if you take over the world. She wants a romance with you. It doesn't take much. Flowers, a poem or e-mail expressing your desire for her. Let me give you an example.

One day I e-mailed my wife at work, telling her how much I loved her, and how thankful I was for our years together. I said that her finger prints were all over the best days of my life. She came home crying. Women don't want to know what you do for them. They want to know that you can't live without them. It is not some wimpy, self depricating, weak needyness. Its where your focus is.

To lighten the situation, watch this clip from "The Coneheads"
Be patient. But listen to the wife's fears. And then listen to Beldar's response. Good luck.


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Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
..She just wants to be the top of your list. Can you do that? Women will look over many shortcomings in their men. Because they are designed to be supportive. But they must be cherished. They must be made to feel that they are the hub of your world. She wants to know that you will sacrifice your own plans or goals in favor of your marriage or connection with her. She doesn't care if you take over the world. She wants a romance with you. It doesn't take much. Flowers, a poem or e-mail expressing your desire for her.

Well said

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