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Where did I go wrong? What could I have done differently? What should I do next?


Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me.

I don't see how you could have improved on that situation.

What should you do next? Same thing you did this time.... Validate his feelings and be honest and open about the reality of the situation.

Your son is lucky to have a concered Dad like yourself.


D-yr fall 06-fall 07
Separated 10/2010
Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011
Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012

Formerly "Mopey".
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2013149&page=1

After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
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Originally Posted by MyJourney
Quote
Where did I go wrong? What could I have done differently? What should I do next?


Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me.

I don't see how you could have improved on that situation.

What should you do next? Same thing you did this time.... Validate his feelings and be honest and open about the reality of the situation.

Your son is lucky to have a concered Dad like yourself.

Sounds right to me Opt.

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Originally Posted by optimism
I was affectionate with NG but not inappropriate (obviously); although anybody can see I'm googly over her.

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Where did I go wrong? What could I have done differently? What should I do next?

Hard to tell from where I sit, but maybe less of the PDA would help when your son is around?

AGG


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opt,

I told my kids and her kids that you didn't have to like the other's significant other, but you have to be respectful, as you would with any other adult and person. . .

that's it


Learning from your own mistakes creates experience, learning from books creates knowledge, combining the two together creates wisdom => You start with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
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and that they can discuss their feelings with me privately when the other person is not around.


Learning from your own mistakes creates experience, learning from books creates knowledge, combining the two together creates wisdom => You start with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
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Originally Posted by optimism
Well, S14 finally came out with it last night:
"it just makes me feel weird to see you with someone else and not Momma"
Quote
I respected his feelings and let him know it was okay to feel that way.

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I was affectionate with NG but not inappropriate (obviously

I dunno Opt, I still see an issue with this. Your son told you he feels weird with you being with someone else. You said you respected his feelings, but then you proceeded to disrespect them, IMO, by making him join you on a date with this "someone else", where you proceeded to be affectionate with her. Call it what you want, but I suspect your son felt that you were not respecting his feelings, but almost rubbing this someone else into his face. Again, it's hard for me to see from where I sit, but while I agree with wiftty that kids can express their feelings but not dictate your actions, I also feel that your actions show whether or not you respect the kids' feelings.

Maybe for now you can hold off being overtly affetcionate with your GF when your son is around? Or reduce the amount of times your son spends with you and NG on "family outings". I dunno, just some thoughts from the peanut gallery. I may be way off of course, so take it for what it's worth.

AGG


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AGG,

if the question is, is opt bringing around someone too soon? i would agree. . . If opt insists on bringing around other people now, then I would not give the child the power to determine with whom the adult interacts. That is giving a child too much power over the adult actions.

However, the child is obviously not ready to accept another woman in his dad's life, so that is to what opt needs to pay attention. so I suggest that opt needs to present the woman not as a mother figure, but as a friend of opts, so that the child can get used to his dad being friendly with other women first, without a replacement mother with opt. . .

that is where the private conversation is for the child to feel comfortable with understanding his dad's intentions. . but i will say, the kids have the power to undermine a relationship, if they so choose, which is why waiting for adult hood for the children is best, adulthood meaning youngest in college.. . .

wiftty


Learning from your own mistakes creates experience, learning from books creates knowledge, combining the two together creates wisdom => You start with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
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Originally Posted by WhenIfindthetime
If opt insists on bringing around other people now, then I would not give the child the power to determine with whom the adult interacts. That is giving a child too much power over the adult actions.

No disagreement here. My point is that opt (like everyone else) can choose his actions, but he cannot choose the consequences. So, like you say above, it is perfectly appropriate for him to choose to interact with his GF however he wants to, and not give his son the power to say no. But, he cannot also choose for his son to be happy with this, that is his son's prerogative. Now, he can establish how his son acts out on his feelings, i.e. not make a scene or be rude or whatever. But, he cannot choose his actions and his son's feelings at the same time. So, if he knows his son is not ready for him to be bringing a new woman into his son's life, and he chooses to do so anyway - that is his right. But it is his son's right to be unhappy with it.

AGG


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It's pretty easy to arm-chair quarterback Opt's actions and relationship BUT I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Opt is in the trenches so to speak. Would it be "best" for the kids if Opt didn't date until the youngest is out of the house? Debatable at best but certainly that wouldn't be what's best for Opt. I think he's doing his best to balance conflicting needs (his own versus the kid's level of comfort). There is no perfect solution; I don't get the impression that Opt is sacrificing his son's comfort in favor of NG. Quite the opposite, I think he did a great job acknowledging his son's feelings while not allowing the teenager to modify the "family" plans because of a feeling.

I know this is probably a hot button issue as everyone allows their kids different amounts of leeway. I've raised two teenagers and I can't recall forcing them to come with me and their mother pretty much anywhere except to a few family events. At the same time, Opt wants to acclimate NG into the family (I'm guessing) so... that requires a certain amount of his son's presence. That and the PDA thing... acting differently around the kids for me would be akin to representing the relationship as something it's not, plain old friendship. Too close to lying for this guy who's incredibly sensitive to dishonesty at this point. I mean, he wasn't making out with NG I'm assuming so... again, not sure I see the problem.

I don't know, I guess I'm the only one who thought Opt did a dang fine job here! lol...

Travis


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Originally Posted by WhenIfindthetime
AGG,

if the question is, is opt bringing around someone too soon? i would agree. . . If opt insists on bringing around other people now, then I would not give the child the power to determine with whom the adult interacts. That is giving a child too much power over the adult actions.

However, the child is obviously not ready to accept another woman in his dad's life, so that is to what opt needs to pay attention. so I suggest that opt needs to present the woman not as a mother figure, but as a friend of opts, so that the child can get used to his dad being friendly with other women first, without a replacement mother with opt. . .

that is where the private conversation is for the child to feel comfortable with understanding his dad's intentions. . but i will say, the kids have the power to undermine a relationship, if they so choose, which is why waiting for adult hood for the children is best, adulthood meaning youngest in college.. . .

wiftty

I tend to agree with this.

How old is your DS? I don't think waiting for 10 years should be nessesry before he dates, again its his relationship with DS that is what would determine much of that also.

I Know it would be difficult for me to present my kids now with a new woman in my life. They are all adults now though.

I think it would be hard to present DS with a new, "Mommy", or any authority figure attached to Opt.

It will take a lot of investment from NG to become close to DS, I guess that will be the challange. Once that was done, I think things could flow much easier


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Originally Posted by tccoastguard
It's pretty easy to arm-chair quarterback Opt's actions and relationship BUT I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Opt is in the trenches so to speak. ...I don't know, I guess I'm the only one who thought Opt did a dang fine job here! lol...

Travis, I never said that Opt did anything wrong.. He was the one who asked:

Quote
Where did I go wrong? What could I have done differently? What should I do next?


And I simply offered some thoughts that I thought might help him.

AGG


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Guys, I so appreciate the thoughtful responses and discussion. It's been a busy weekend (started a second job last week) and now I have to get going to work, so I can't give a worthy comment except that I have taken all points into account and you've given me a lot to think about.

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Count me as one who thinks Opt played this one perfectly.

Talk to your son and acknowledge his feelings, and also try to reassure him about your intentions with NG.

I went through all this recently with my 10 year old. When I first talked to him about being introduced to PG (preacher girl), he stated matter-of-factly that he didn't want a stepmother or step siblings. I was able to reassure him that we were nowhere even close to thinking about that, that we just like each other (a lot) and enjoy being together, and that I want the children to be part of that too.

We had the one incident that I went into detail about in my thread, and I had a serious talk with him about showing respect and what behavior towards PG, or any adult for that matter, would or would not be tolerated.

In the next weeks he was very good, but would sometimes roll his eyes and say "again?" when I would tell him she was coming over.

A week or so ago I talked with him again and asked what he felt about PG being around frequently. He said it's good and that it felt "normal" now. (Win!!) We even had a very nice dinner at my house with Preacher Girl, her father, and my kids where they were very well behaved and made me proud.

Moral of the story, I totally agree with those who say Opt cannot let his teenage son dictate who and when he chooses to be around. Let NG be around during fun outings, but also when you are just hanging around the house doing nothing. It will start to feel more "normal" to everyone.

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Opt,

Don't feel guilty about having NG in your life. It sounds like you handled this perfectly - and I get the sense that you're the kind of guy who naturally puts his kids first. I'm sure you did and will continue to do the right thing intuitively.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Had a conversation with the kids in a very relaxed environment in which I asked what they thought about our time bowling last week. And how they felt about (NatureGirl) being with us. Ultimately, after some discussion, DS admitted that he was okay with her once she�s in our presence; it�s just that he�s having a hard time with the concept of me being with someone else. He said it just feels strange and uncomfortable to him. He said he doesn�t have an actual problem with her individually and that he understands she�s going to be around from time to time.

DD9 expressed similar nostalgia about when me and wxw were together. Of course they miss having a family with their parents who were at least auspiciously in love. I admitted I miss that too.

DD9 said she had fun with NG and �when will she be with us again?� She seems to be more able to separate her �Momma� from her �Daddy�s new GF.� --am I interpreting that correctly? It would make sense to me as DS had more time with his Mom and Dad together, and frankly the first 5 years of his life were idyllic - infidelity started creeping in around his 5th year and, obviously, the birth of his sister. My infidelity was highly secretive and was only devastating on a deep level.. frown. Overall wxw and I got along quite well, even through the wxw�s affair with the neighbor(s). We never fought that much and actually hugged quite a bit (wxw did have a EN of affection, but not intimacy/SF). We were very good roommates, and I suppose to a kid that suffices.

I asked them both if there was anything I could have done differently to make them more comfortable (clearly speaking mostly to DS). DS said no �it�s not like you were making out or anything� and �she�s your girlfriend, it�s not like you�re just going to ignore her.�

In retrospect, I think the smartest thing I did was not make DS relinquish his shotgun seat when I picked up NG - she sat in the back with DD. NG got the picture.

Well, that was the first real opportunity I had to talk to them after having read all of your helpful comments and thoughts here. I kept in mind what everyone had to say and initiated the conversation as much to get their true feelings as to let them know they are still #1 in my life; their feelings count (and so do mine).

Opt

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One thing I wanted to address, is the idea of waiting until they�re grown up to date. I have been saying in these threads for a long time that I really regret bringing up my kids in an environment where their Mom and Dad were more roommates/brother and sister than husband and wife. I really feel they missed out on the modeling of what a real loving, mutually respectful relationship looks like. Early in the D process I ignorantly looked forward to being able to having a second opportunity for DS before he graduates and (hopefully) moves out. [I was not thinking about the timeline or the reality of how long it really takes to develop that kind of relationship, or even how rare it is.] My folks were not overtly �in love� until after I left for college - my R with wxw was very similar and had much of the same underlying disrespect (IB, DJ�s) my Dad had for my Mom (although they never cheated on one another). I understand the importance of not rushing anything and I certainly wouldn't force something false (kinda been down that road for 15 years...). But, I wouldn�t hold off on dating and miss an opportunity to demonstrate to my kids how two people treat each other when they are in love.

opt

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Originally Posted by optimism
One thing I wanted to address, is the idea of waiting until they�re grown up to date. I have been saying in these threads for a long time that I really regret bringing up my kids in an environment where their Mom and Dad were more roommates/brother and sister than husband and wife. I really feel they missed out on the modeling of what a real loving, mutually respectful relationship looks like. Early in the D process I ignorantly looked forward to being able to having a second opportunity for DS before he graduates and (hopefully) moves out. [I was not thinking about the timeline or the reality of how long it really takes to develop that kind of relationship, or even how rare it is.] My folks were not overtly �in love� until after I left for college - my R with wxw was very similar and had much of the same underlying disrespect (IB, DJ�s) my Dad had for my Mom (although they never cheated on one another). I understand the importance of not rushing anything and I certainly wouldn't force something false (kinda been down that road for 15 years...). But, I wouldn�t hold off on dating and miss an opportunity to demonstrate to my kids how two people treat each other when they are in love.

opt

Bingo! You make me really proud, Opt.

You have handled this perfectly and you are exactly right about demonstrating what true loving relationship is like for your kids. They are lucky to have a father like you.

And sounds like DS11 is right where he should be. Of course it's a little awkward to see his father with someone other than his mother, but sounds like he has it in the proper perspective. You'll be surprised how quickly and easily being together with her will start to feel comfortable.

Going on fun outings together like bowling is a great way to get to that comfort zone, but so is just hanging out at the house when nothing is going on or for a family dinner.

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I had a couple extra minutes so I thought I�d bring things up to speed on my thread.

NG and I have continued to get along very well. It seems we�ve both been in relationships where trust was low, so sharing and openness was limited. I feel like we both have learned from those mistakes and know where that leads, so we�ve opened up to each other more than we might otherwise be inclined to. One thing I really like is that when she gets a bad vibe about something she brings it up right away.

Example:
I completely forgot about agreeing to go to her niece�s christening last Sunday afternoon (doh!)
So on Saturday night returning from a wonderful date of Ballroom Dancing (well, in our case Ballroom Tripping All Over Each Other, lol); it came up and it was clear I just totally spaced it.

Fortunately we were able to talk not just on a level of �how could you forget something like that?� type of thing, but more how it reflected on our relationship and what state our lives were both in. Somehow, just talking calmly and not making any accusations or DJ�s seems to be NG�s approach; at least at this juncture. Regardless of why, I�m noticing it�s so much more manageable to have these �discussions� when I KNOW she cares about me and there is no resentment between us (EN�s are being met for the most part). Also I�m still very aware of my want to protect her feelings and certainly she sensed my sincere regret for messing up my schedule.

As for the aforementioned BR Dancing, what a hoot that was! We had done a free lesson on Monday night as a date. We enjoyed it so I found a skating rink that holds dances every Saturday. We had no idea what to expect but decided to check it out (that�s one thing I really like about NG - she�s adventurous and manages to have fun no matter what). So we went in with a working knowledge of the box step (only) and low and behold there must have been 50 - 60 couples. Many had been dancing as long as we have been alive, it was beautiful. We went in the practice area so as not to maim anyone and sooner or later a couple took some pity on us and showed us the proper fox trot. We did a few dances with the general population and there were a lot of folks encouraging us. We hope to go back soon as it was a rippin� good time. I would recommend it to anyone and we were told there�s no need to spend lots of money on studios and lessons as most communities have offerings --- then it�s all about getting out and doing it.

Anyway, I like NG a lot and we have a lot of fun together. She likes me a lot too. A whole lot. I can tell. It�s really great. But it makes me a little nervous too. Is that normal?

opt

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Awesome, opt. You're doing so much better than I am at this point. Especially in the dancing arena! LOL.

NG sounds a lot more adventurous and impromptu than Ballroom Girl. Hmmm.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Awesome, opt. You're doing so much better than I am at this point. Especially in the dancing arena! LOL.

NG sounds a lot more adventurous and impromptu than Ballroom Girl. Hmmm.

Thanks Fred! It's hard to coordinate everything with my kids and my time with them, work and of course she has a couple kids even though they are older they still factor in. In fact I'm counting hours that we actually spend together (UA time) as much out of curiosity as anything. I like the 15 hr/wk minimum for bonding that Harley talks about (and requires for couples who he counsels). We're not there (maybe 10), but we're not married either, lol. I'm just glad she understands that my kids time is just that; even tonight she said she's not interested in interfering with that.

I'm still most thrilled by her tendency to get things out in the open right NOW. Today we talked about our plans for the weekend and hers didn't include me, which was perfectly good. A while later she called to check that I wasn't offended or felt discluded. She's very direct and attentive, sincere and empathetic. She seems to consider the relationship something to protect. It's very refreshing.

opt

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