Pa, you're going to have to do some serious snooping here. VAR, GPS and a keylogger on your computer for starters. It really sounds like he's got something going on with the co-worker, and you'll need to find that out.

DON'T talk to him about it. Just do it. And if you find something, come here first and we'll help you figure out what to do with it.

Of course he will be mad. You just destroyed his secret fantasy world. Don't let his anger stop you from doing what you have to do to save your M.

What about current OW? Have you exposed to her family?

PA, you need to expose this all at once. Don't trickle expose this, that would be a BIG mistake.

Get your list together for exposure targets.

Don't REACT. You need to devise a plan and ACT on that PLAN.

I'll start by saying I'm the worst spy ever. I bought a program that tracks gps, records calls, texts, the works. And I paid for it with paypal since he's way less likely to check that than a bank or credit card. BUT I forgot that paypal sends 2 emails after you buy something and I only deleted the first. He knew about it before it was even installed and boy was he ticked off!

He calmed down without a big ordeal, but I got irritated and made a snarky comment about how he handled ending it with the EA OW and it was like a bomb went off. He exploded - I'm talking picking up the 10-foot dining table and slamming it back down. Yelling like I've never heard in my life.

The next few hours alternated between his tirades (I've caused more damage to him than an affair ever could have to me, I sound like a crazy person, I'm being idiotic, I had him willing to reform but my bad attitude messed it up and now I'm not in control - he calls the shots because he's been through more...) and his sitting there in silence. I fought dirty, I tried to ignore things he said just to 'get' me, then I cried like a baby and eventually had a panic attack (I have an anxiety disorder).

A good bit of what he said was true, though another big portion was just terrible mean stuff designed to hurt me.

In the end he told me I needed to go to sleep (because I was panicking again), took me to bed, gave me benadryl to help me sleep more soundly, and held me for a while.

I'm completely befudled. I have no idea what's even going on. And I won't see him until late tomorrow night (because of his work). So now I'm left with total and utter confusion, intense anger and self-loathing until I have a chance to talk to him Thursday evening.

PA, Think about what happened here. He broke your trust (more than once) and he expects you to just believe him? Why, because he's been so trustworthy in the past? He is unjustly shifting the blame back to you.

What has he really done to stop the A and protect the M? Has he done anything that you have asked ... such as NC letter? You are not the one with a bad attitude.

What he is really doing here is protecting his A and blaming you.

"He has been through more..." Really?

Have you read the MB articles? What is your plan?

What part was true? The things he said were WORD FOR WORD wayward speak or fogbabble or whatever you want to call it.

Right, you are completely befuddled because he gaslighted you...successfully...

PA, as was pointed out, you need a plan. This way, no matter what your WH says to distract you, you know what you are going to do.

Do you want help with a PLAN?

OK, so he admitted that he has romantic feelings for this woman that he constantly texts but won't let you read them? He has already admitted the two prior As? IMO, you are ready for exposure.

You need to expose this to your parents & his parents, close family and friends, and the workplace. All three As. As Scotty pointed out, you need to do this in one day and DO NOT trickle expose.

Once the dust settles from exposure, this is what you will need from your WH to agree to:
~ NC with all three OW, and NC letters
~ EP, extraordinary precautions to prevent another affair (no more opposite sex friendships)
~ 100 % transparency (no erasing texts, giving you access to all of his records and phone at any time, email, etc)
~ leave workplace with current OW
~ coaching with Steve Harley

Prepare to move to Plan B if the above is not agreed to. Anything less than this is just a recipe for disaster, PA. Even if you are able to end the current A and end communications with the previous OW, your H is a walking A time bomb unless some drastic changes are made.

Let us know what you think. Hang in there!

Do you have SAA? You need to start learning about Plan B as it will take you a couple of weeks to get your ducks lined in a row....

Here is a good link: Preparing for Plan B

Listen to what you are being told: your H is trying to shift the focus to you and off the A with this OW. Don't fall for it. Follow the plan being outlined here. Your H is conducting emotional warfare on you, and you need to know how to respond correctly.

SusieQ is dead-on, Pa. You can't go off in so many directions. Make your plan and follow it.

Oh, and next time he blows up like this, walk away. Do not engage him or try to calm him. If necessary, pack up the kids and leave. This is not acceptable, gaslighting or not.

Thanks everyone. I know I need to hear all of these things, even if it's difficult.

Here are the newest bombs dropped on me: There was ANOTHER A a few years ago that he just admitted to. But even worse, the current EA, which he told me was very new and very innocent, is actually a PA. I looked through our phone records and saw that they'd been calling each other 15 times a day, every day for months. When confronted, he admitted that they just talked a lot... then finally that they've been sleeping together... then finally that he told her he loved her and they've talked about leaving their spouses and getting married. He even took our youngest son to meet her last weekend! He admitted that the working late out of town last night was scheduled to coincide with a conference she had in the same city.

I'm completely devestated all over again, but the upside is he's no longer angry, defensive, or trying to turn it around on me. Now that this one is in the open he's actually showing all the remorse and regret and love for me that he wasn't yesterday. He's taking responsibility, not being defensive, agreeing to NC letters that he acted indignant about before. I exposed to close family and friends, and I think it helped put things into perspective when he had to talk openly to them about this. He even wants to have a talk with his brother who's getting married soon about how to not end up in a situation like this!

He asked me to go with him for work last night. Sitting there with nothing to do but dwell on this A while he worked was mindnumbingly awful, but afterward I explained to him what I needed - complete honesty and openness, 100% effort to improve our relationship, an end to all female aquaintances, and for him to make me feel like the most wanted, most loved person in the world. He agreed that I deserved all of this and that he would do whatever it took not to lose me. We were even able to go out to dinner afterwards and have a pretty nice time together.

I'm seriously hoping that this is the start of rebuilding our marriage into something better than it was before.

Pa, I would suggest a few things that he needs to accomplish in order to begin recovery:

NC letter to the current OW
Names and marital status of past OW
Quit the job
Polygraph
STD test for both of you
Counseling with the Harleys

It's all well and good that he seems remorseful now, but that means little without some concrete action on his part. Your WH has been catting around for years. I think I mentioned before that you really need to consider whether or not you want a life with a man who is a serial cheater. Are you sure you do? If so, you need to set your recovery bar very high, and he needs to meet your requirements. Anything less will leave you in a battered marriage with a wayward husband who will jump on his next opportunity. Your mental and emotional health are at stake, here.

PA,

You have a gold mine of experience at your disposal in the MB forum. Use it. Keep reading the threads and the MB principles. Use these resources to educate and protect yourself.

Take the time to verify that this A has not just gone further underground (like my FWH who also said all the right things).
You still need a PLAN. Current OW also needs to be exposed. Do not warn beforehand. Be prepared for WH response.

Think about what we tell you because we speak from first hand experience. We are on your side.

maritalbliss, I'm thinking the same thing myself - is it a bad idea to remain with someone who can do this again and again? I honestly love him, and besides the cheating, he is an absolutely amazing person. I almost wonder sometimes if I'm just staying so that he can't have a happy ending with the OW, though.

pokerface, I'm terrified that he's just hiding it better now. How can he see someone every day at work who he has had this relationship with (he said the relationship was not about the sex like the others, that was just an added thing, but it was about their feelings for each other) and be strong enough not to fall back into it? He does plan to leave this job, but it may be weeks before he can do that. As someone who's been there, what should I watch for now? How do I know he isn't just going further underground?

As for exposing the OW, I thought about it. I wanted to do it. WH reminded me that they would both be fired immediately, which would mean we'd have not enough income to pay our bills while he's working on building his other practice. I was pretty mad that he was trying to convince me not to oust her, but at the sime time we have to pay the bills and put food on the table. The OW won't be at work the rest of this week, and I considered having WH use up however much vacation time he's got starting Monday just to keep them away from each other as long as I can, but what do I do when he eventually has to go back?

How are the two of you going to work out paying the bills when your marriage ends?

His working with the OW won't work, PA, period. Not only does Dr Harley stress this but we have seen it over and over and over again on the boards. You are signing up for an on again off again affair if you agree to this.

Please read this: Read My Lips: No Contact Means No Contact

Without a serious plan in place, he will just do this to you again. I don't know if your H is a serial cheater but one thing I do know for sure is that he had developed a lifestyle in which he has been accustomed to hiding his SSL (secret second life) from you and he is accustomed to getting his ENs met outside the M. It is going to take a lot of hard work and most likely professional help for him to change.

First, he has to leave the workplace. Second, I wouldn't bother unless you two sign up for MB coaching. Just a verbal commitment from him to end opposite sex relationships isn't nearly enough. He will need to develop an detail EP (extraordinary precaution) list. The coaching center can help him to do this. You two will also need to integrate your lifestyles so that you spend most of your free time together.

In short, if he is not willing to do the following, I would move to Plan B until he does so:
~ leave the job
~ end ALL contact with all three OW, including changing his phone number or switch his phone with you
~ become completely transparent
~ coach with Steve Harley
~ polygraph (to make sure there are no other As ~ to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more)

Otherwise you are just signing up for more of the same, PA...and you are allowing him to throw crumbs of a marriage at you after multiple affairs.

Hello PA,

From reading your posts it seems that you probably have some money set aside for building his other practice, possibly some home equity and other sources such as borrowing from your pension plans...

There is a twofold purpose in being adamant that he leave this job...

First and by far the most important is to get him away from this OW.

Your M will NOT survive him being around the OW.

Mrs.Flint will NEVER have contact with my ex-brother again for that very reason.

Secondly your WH MUST learn that there are consequences for developing inappropriate relationships with women.

Having to compensate for his selfish choices by using money he had planned to use for other things will reinforce in his mind that there ARE consequences for him this time...

and there will be again if he is tempted to do it again.

Jim