I don't think he's in jail now, but did spend a few days...

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2438540

NW - you need to mail me that Gold Star. WW and I were in the same kind of place when we were having SF prior to D-day (i.e. the affair was in full bloom and I was unaware). WW was there physically - kind of - but not emotionally at all. This from a woman with an extremely high s*x drive before our child was born, lots of fun, etc. I don't think we hit 'normal' until a couple of years ago. In other words this part of our relationship was great from my perspective and from hers as well (for the most part). However, I became the old, comfortable shoe, T-shirt, etc. Very predictable and just 'not new' any more. I tried to mix things up, but she never came back with anything 'new' from her end.

I kept pushing for SF in the false hope that it would reinforce our connection. It certainly worked for me - as a male. She would make me feel guilty for pushing SF, but I would be frustrated if it was missing. Vicious cycle, I know. I literally felt that I had the proverbial angel and devil on a shoulder. I was frustrated either way. If she would give in - I'd feel guilty afterwards. If she didn't give in - I'd be frustrated and she'd know it. Guess it was ultimately another way for her to have control over the situation.

The fog lends to that a bit; she went outside the marriage because she had a """""""""""""""connection""""""""""""""""" with OM, so there must have been no """"""""""connection"""""""""" with you. SF must not have been about """"""""""connection"""""""""" Nope. It was "just SF."

As men, we get frustrated when they disconnect. Hmmm... what caused that? Lack of meeting other ENs is the most probable. We don't engage them in enough conversation, or RC, or admiration, or affection... then *plink* they pull the plug. SF doesn't maintain the bond for them, though it does for a lot of men.

And now she's using contrast (omg... OM had a "connection") because there is still some fog.

So, on that front North, I can completely understand your reluctance to accept her SF "gifts." That is a chance for RH. But, it seems so damn touchy, not sure what you would say.

Make sure you state your appreciation for her meeting your needs is a start... beyond that, it's such mucky territory I'm not comfortable advising much more... out of my paygrade.

Yep, sounds pretty familiar. W actually told me (while the A was on but I thought it wasn't) that the no-SF was probably just her attempt to control a situation that she had no control over. Kind of foggy, since the "situation" (troubled marriage) was, at the time, the direct result of the affair. It was like a damn light switch, shut down in the span of a few days.

this reminds me of a line in a Woody allen movie where a woman at a cocktail party says "I finally had an orgasm and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind."

WA: Oh, you had the wrong kind? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.

Unfortunately, the plug had to be pulled for me to get the lack of meeting ENs.


We've had a very RH talk about it, so there's no hidden agenda or anything that I can see. It's just where we are and neither of us like it. It's mucky territory, that's for sure, but I finally just said what I thought--figured keeping quiet hadn't worked before and wouldn't work now. It took me a few tries to get it right (without DJ) and turned out ok, I guess.

Yep, even if it's lousy it's not all that bad

My wife commented on that the other day--it almost sounded like she was just realizing that as a truth, I'm not sure.

Yeah, dude. I just don't freaking know.

I can tell you that I had quite a few absolutely frank discussions over the years with FWW, and told her over and over and over that it wasn't the physicality at all that mattered to me, it actually was the emotional component. It took the A for her to freaking listen.

And, yes, you will see it all over; SF - the last thing to go, the first to get noticed.

Other examinations included affection, as that was something else that had fallen by the wayside.

Just gotta truck along and make the big deposits... and, dang it, GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND AWAY FROM THE KIDS. Seriously, no excuses on that. At least once a week.

I know it's hard when they are small, but you have to do it. Also, stealing away time during the day is important, too. That's what Barney DVD's are for. (did I just date mys.... er, my children?)

Well, crap, back into a lull again. Getting tired of the ride and running out of steam. It just sometimes seems that we get really close to doing the same-old-thing that got us here to begin with. Complacency sets in, maybe?

I wish I could explain it, but things are just "off" and it sometimes feels like we're just going through the motions.

Counter-intuitive, but when you hit these strides, it's time to mash the gas.

Make a date night, see if you can get an overnight trip, or just drag her into another room for a few hours.

Be RH.

To what extent? Nevermind, I know the answer and meaning of "radical". But my RH (at this moment) includes wondering if I should have filed for divorce. It'll probably change in thirty minutes...

Yes, time to hit the gas.

I did tell her (yesterday) that I felt disconnected. Her response was something like she was fine, wasn't worried about anything, but didn't feel disconnected because she hadn't felt connected to begin with. WTF?

Guess that "not feeling connected" was in the context of the past year or so, not necessarily since 1996. Guess I should ask her that.

Here's the email she sent...anything stick out that I should notice? It kind of irritated me, tell you the truth:

NW - hang in there! Remember, a lot of vets have said that recovery is very difficult. You're still on the 'coaster my friend. That's what you're feeling. I agree with the others, get out of the rut and stay out of it. There's got to be something you can do differently, today, tomorrow, this weekend.

Thanks, Andy. We just don't get the UA time in--seems our two kids use every opportunity to fight with each other, then it's always something else and life happens.

Then when we do get the UA time in, I'm usually just worn out from the day or irritated to begin with about the situation and it goes round and round.

I'll think it over--what you said--about something I can do different. HoldHerHand keeps saying the same thing to me as well, he's probably thinking I have some hearing problem or something by now

Just getting a recharge from you guys helps, thanks for chiming in.

North don't let it get you down. Sounds like a bad day at the Reynolds household, I promise you there are days when the connection is not there, and then it will snap back. And it is related to UA time, and thats hard to do.

Throw in a wife who wants to simply settle back down in her comfy little life as though nothing happened, and damn straight recovery is hard.

But it gets better a few months out we are having fewer days like that, SF gets better and easier, plans are easier to make and easier to look forward to.

Its still hard, frankly the day I don't think about it at all will be a damn good day.

Our lot in life I guess. Could be worse, friend of mine struggling to stay in remission with a brain tumour. If he can do that, I can do this. Period.

Re UA time, do you two sit down weekly and schedule it?

Thanks for the thoughts, Reynolds. Nice to hear I'm not the only one that thinks this kind of thing. Kind of strange that I finally got what I wanted but don't really want it all the time. Go figure.

We did about a month ago, seemed to work pretty well having it written down. But we got out of the habit--check that, we never made it a habit to begin with so it was easy to fall out of it and use "life happening" as an excuse.

We still reserve 9-10 pm every night, but after the kids are down (8) we're both worn out. There's got to be a way around this. I'll bring it up tonight. As-is, we're probably getting in less than 10-hrs a week. Need to triple that.

*Sigh* Ok, that's my task then.

EDIT: If you also meant do we actually schedule events, no we didn't. Just blocked out time but never defined what went in those slots. Guess that needs to change as well

I understand because this is the area that my H and I need to work on too! But what I am finding is there is a much better chance of it happening if you schedule it.

And yes, please do try to work towards making it quality time that you both enjoy. Dr Harley recently wrote this to me and it has really resonated with me: