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A while later she called to check that I wasn't offended or felt discluded. She's very direct and attentive, sincere and empathetic. She seems to consider the relationship something to protect. It's very refreshing.


That's awesome Opt. I am very happy for you.



D-yr fall 06-fall 07
Separated 10/2010
Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011
Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012

Formerly "Mopey".
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2013149&page=1

After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
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Thanks MJ.
things continue to go well with Nature Girl. She intrigues me and amazes me with her outlook on life and with the way she approaches things. She's thoughtful and mellow but not without emotion and a lot of sentimentality. She's reading FilSil. She believes people can learn from their mistakes and change for the better - and has done so herself (kinda like Yours Truly).

I think the Disallusionment (sp) stage was starting to set in for me a few weeks ago. Not with NG herself, but with the whole situation. I was feeling like there was no way I could really give her (or the relationship) everything I wanted to between the kids and all obligations. That was bumming me out. I wanted to spend like all my time with her and the reality of being in a relationship for a 42 yo with so many responsibilities was disillusioning. I also think I like her so much I want to be perfect, and I know that's not possible.
That seems to have passed some and we've settled into a nice rhythm. In fact I think I'm back in the Infatuation stage.

We've had so many really fun experiences and have been sharing our interests with each other. She went to pool league with me one night, and I helped her with her landscaping side job one afternoon. We've walked around her home town and I've had dinner with her family. We watched the Super Moon rise together. I even walked her dogs on my own, lol.

Anyway, I'm not sure how to handle one thing: my past infidelity. It hasn't really come up specifically. But we've been dating around 4 months now. I know if it's really meant to be for the long term, I obviously want her to know everything about me (and me about her). She has said she has some belief in the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" and frankly I believe that as well, except for when it comes to me~ and I have learned so much about boundaries and the devastation infidelity causes that I know it won't be a problem for me in future relationships, I won't allow it. (I guess I'm a "recovering cheater"?)
So, when and how, trusted friends? What say you?

Opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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Originally Posted by optimism
So, when and how, trusted friends? What say you?

Hmmm, I would say "about 3.5 months ago" smile . It's different for everybody of course - some folks would never date someone who had an affair, others would. I think it's a pretty big "skeleton" to have kept in the closet all this time, but maybe she'll feel differently. Only one way to find out.

AGG


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Hey Opt, glad to see you're still doing well with NG. Haven't seen you post in a while, but no news is usally good news.

Quote
I think the Disallusionment (sp) stage was starting to set in for me a few weeks ago. Not with NG herself, but with the whole situation. I was feeling like there was no way I could really give her (or the relationship) everything I wanted to between the kids and all obligations. That was bumming me out. I wanted to spend like all my time with her and the reality of being in a relationship for a 42 yo with so many responsibilities was disillusioning. I also think I like her so much I want to be perfect, and I know that's not possible.
That seems to have passed some and we've settled into a nice rhythm. In fact I think I'm back in the Infatuation stage.

Been there and done that, especially when you can sense the disappointment when we're not available to our partners.

And, do you have some underlying guilt from time to time? I know it's not accurate, but to sometimes feel like we're taking away from the kids somehow with the time we spend with our partners?

On the other subject, you may have missed the best opportunity to tell about your own affair. I'm sure you have had conversations where you talk about the state of your previous marriage and what you did wrong? That would have been the time.

O & H is also a key component of my relationship with PG, and she has confided about an EA she was involved with. We talked some about it and I was grateful that she had told me.


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Originally Posted By: optimismSo, when and how, trusted friends? What say you?


Hmmm, I would say "about 3.5 months ago" . It's different for everybody of course - some folks would never date someone who had an affair, others would. I think it's a pretty big "skeleton" to have kept in the closet all this time, but maybe she'll feel differently. Only one way to find out.


x2


D-yr fall 06-fall 07
Separated 10/2010
Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011
Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012

Formerly "Mopey".
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2013149&page=1

After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
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Originally Posted by optimism
Anyway, I'm not sure how to handle one thing: my past infidelity. It hasn't really come up specifically. But we've been dating around 4 months now. I know if it's really meant to be for the long term, I obviously want her to know everything about me (and me about her). She has said she has some belief in the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" and frankly I believe that as well, except for when it comes to me~ and I have learned so much about boundaries and the devastation infidelity causes that I know it won't be a problem for me in future relationships, I won't allow it. (I guess I'm a "recovering cheater"?)
So, when and how, trusted friends? What say you?

Opt

Honestly, I wouldn't stress about it too much. If YOU truly know that you won't do it again, then I wouldn't mention it to her, and just put it out of your head. I'm sure you were a different person.

If you just can't stand not telling her, than tell her some time when you're being open and sharing your deep thoughts and feelings. Frame it with context and what you learned from it. Tell her why you're a different person now than you were then.

Either way, I don't believe you're committing a "crime of omission" by letting the past stay in the past. My advice would be very different if I hadn't read so many of your posts that reflect that you a now a man of good character.

Full disclosure: I DID tell my current girlfriend about the one time I cheated on a girlfriend. I was 20, young, dumb, drunk, and the girl was VERY intent on getting some action (she was coked up and not taking no for an answer). None of that made it okay, but after it happened, I told my ex-girlfriend about it immediately because I couldn't have lived with that dishonesty even then.
And when I told my current girlfriend about that incident, it led to a long conversation and she has brought it up in a few heated moments since then. But other than that, it hasn't been a huge deal.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Originally Posted by optimism
Anyway, I'm not sure how to handle one thing: my past infidelity. It hasn't really come up specifically. But we've been dating around 4 months now. I know if it's really meant to be for the long term, I obviously want her to know everything about me (and me about her). She has said she has some belief in the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" and frankly I believe that as well, except for when it comes to me~ and I have learned so much about boundaries and the devastation infidelity causes that I know it won't be a problem for me in future relationships, I won't allow it. (I guess I'm a "recovering cheater"?)
So, when and how, trusted friends? What say you?

This is something you definitely should tell any prospective spouse. If I were her, I want to know this sooner rather than later. If this is a knock out factor, it is better to know now before you get more intimate. I doubt I would marry someone with cheating in his past but I might. On second thought, you might be a safer bet than others because you understand the risks and have appropriate boundaries.

Dr Harley has recommended his personal history questionaire for prospective spouses. It is a great tool in that you would answer questions about any and all previous sexual partners. It does ask if you have ever had an extramarital affair. Personal history questionaire


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr Harley has recommended his personal history questionaire for prospective spouses. It is a great tool in that you would answer questions about any and all previous sexual partners. It does ask if you have ever had an extramarital affair. Personal history questionaire

Wow. That is one comprehensive survey! Thanks for the link, ML.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr Harley has recommended his personal history questionaire for prospective spouses. It is a great tool in that you would answer questions about any and all previous sexual partners. It does ask if you have ever had an extramarital affair. Personal history questionaire

Lol, Mel, where was this when I got married at 18? Ah nevermind, I was to smart for my britches then anyway, even though all those questions would ones I wanted to know, and found important, it was full speed ahead and damn the torpedos because "I could fix everything" I was so smart, thoght I had been through so much, that I forgot it takes two..

Ah how that experience led into my hero status with second wife..Now thats when the questions would have been valuable if I used them, again I could fix it..yeah right.. faint

This is a great tool for anyone who is in love and wants to love thier mate. The perfect outlook of the "In-love" state of mind gets challanged and brings in the love that says you want to understand all thier faults, weaknesses past and present, and love them anyways. You truly want to support them in everything.

My Pastor once said when he was talking about men complaining about thier wives, "What are you guys complaining about? You know who she was when you married her!" Unfortunatly, this is not allways true, and forwarned is forearmed. It doesn't mean you wont love them if thier are skeletons in the closet, it just means you deal with them right or find out if its possible to deal with them openly and honestly.

Gonna save it to my desktop.


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Hey Opt, great to catch up with you here and I'm learning a lot from you again! Keep blazin the trail for me brother. I think I'm settling back in to some form of a normal life and can start hanging out on the boards more often. Need to start a new thread but not sure where. Here, or divorced? Maybe both.


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Originally Posted by LimboNoMore
Hey Opt, great to catch up with you here and I'm learning a lot from you again! Keep blazin the trail for me brother. I think I'm settling back in to some form of a normal life and can start hanging out on the boards more often. Need to start a new thread but not sure where. Here, or divorced? Maybe both.

Hi, Limbo. I'll jump in and answer your question since I mostly hang out on the Divorce and After Divorce forums.

Generally speaking, threads in the Divorcing/Divorced section have to do with issues surrounding the divorce itself. It's a great place to work through emotions, ask legal questions, discuss custody problems, etc.

In the After Divorce forum we discuss things that have to do with starting over. That's where you get dating questions, new relationship questions, that sort of thing. There's certainly some overlap, though.

For that matter, I have noticed people in SAA who should consider starting a new thread in Divorcing/Divorced but they have not. I think it's probably because it just turns into a continuation of their saga, plus they have a lot of friendships over there.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
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Thanks folks! I certainly didn�t expect such a volume of responses although I was fully expecting the vehemence. Clearly I�ve been around here long enough to know the right answer is to be fully open about my past. Nature Girl has a right to know who she is going out with and then act accordingly. Like the much repeated refrain �you can choose your actions but not the consequences.� I guess adultery is one of those actions that has life-long consequences.

Melody�s comment is thought provoking: at what point does one consider someone they�re going out with as a prospective spouse? I�m not sure about Nature Girl. We have a lot to learn about each other; but I suppose she has potential. Of course according to Harley just about any two people can have a successful marriage if they take the right approach and are willing to meet each other�s most important EN�s etc ( I realize that�s a theoretical construct and I certainly hope to spend the rest of my life with someone whom I can meet their most important EN�s as naturally as possible � and likewise have mine met with the same ease). I�ve seen that overwhelming questionnaire and would present it to a potential marriage partner; a little joint project I suppose. Maybe during a weekend getaway I could leave it on the night stand. smile

So, AGG, and MJ and Schtoop thanks for putting it to me straight. I knew I could get a little �encouragement� here. Funny thing is we�ve talked all around the subject including how much detail we really need to know about each other�s past. That�s one of the reasons I was hoping she�d get into some Harley material, so she could see why I�m so interested in knowing everything about her; I now know how important all that history is in achieving true intimacy. One of the very first things I said to NG was �I have nothing to hide and you can ask me anything � I will give you the truth� � I meant it and have honored it. She has yet to ask if I was ever unfaithful.

Arp, I appreciate your sentiment. NG knew me a while before we started dating and she would not have made herself available if she didn�t trust my basic character. I�ve vowed to go with MB to the best of my ability, so I feel it�s only right that I make an effort to disclose things about me that might not be too savory. You may be right: it may not be my true nature to commit adultery and the circumstances may have simply been too overwhelming for my boundaries at the time. But, the fact that I let it happen remains and that self doubt will be with me forever, however small.

Ugh. I guess this will either strengthen our relationship or �dot, dot, dot.�

Thanks for stopping in Limbo! I would get a thread going at D board as you will still have a few Divorce things popping up for a while. It takes a good amount of time to settle in, and Pink hasn�t even moved out yet. But don't be a stranger here!

thanks again everyone!

opt



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Originally Posted by optimism
..You may be right: it may not be my true nature to commit adultery and the circumstances may have simply been too overwhelming for my boundaries at the time. But, the fact that I let it happen remains and that self doubt will be with me forever, however small...

Yeah opt, you get it though, we are driven by our needs, and everybody is suceptable to theirs. I left WW once and my boundaries were weak. It took 6 mos before I got together with another woman, and another 1 1/2 years with her before it ended with her. It was an affair, but I didn't see it that way because I felt I was going for good.

But in the end it was about me and the messed up emotional state I was in. I never did that again, although with plenty of temptations and mostly because I would not ever be a part of that again. I protected myself. As NG and you practice that, and share the lessons you've learned, trust can be built.






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I don't think you need to announce all right off the bat, but as a topic comes up, be honest and share. It's hard to know this far into it if she's a prospective mate or not...but it might be a consideration on down the road and at that point it might be a little late in the game to suddenly disclose. You don't want to wait so long she feels you withheld information...maybe next time the subject arises...


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Originally Posted by Schtoop
Been there and done that, especially when you can sense the disappointment when we're not available to our partners.

And, do you have some underlying guilt from time to time? I know it's not accurate, but to sometimes feel like we're taking away from the kids somehow with the time we spend with our partners?
Sh2p! This is a hard balance to get. No doubt. I guess it's the joys of being divorced, I'm sometimes preoccupied when I'm with NG wondering what D9 is up to; and I know S14 wishes I was around more. It's truly heart breaking and sometimes brings back the anger I have at wXw that she didn't try more.

My only consolation is that I know I'm twice the Dad I used to be and when I have them I am very focussed on them. I do what I can in between, but they know I have a life too. Fortunately, NG understands I'm a Dad first; and she knows if she didn't like it she would simply have a choice to make ~ I would say my boundaries are firmly in place when it comes to the kids.

There's no comfortable answer here; it's just the ugliness of Divorce: the kids are the losers. I see my job as making that loss as minimal as possible.

Opt

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Originally Posted by kaycstamper
I don't think you need to announce all right off the bat, but as a topic comes up, be honest and share. It's hard to know this far into it if she's a prospective mate or not...but it might be a consideration on down the road and at that point it might be a little late in the game to suddenly disclose. You don't want to wait so long she feels you withheld information...maybe next time the subject arises...
Thanks KayC, I spent some time with NG over the w/e and I've been very attuned to an opportunity to have that discussion about the past. I'm not worried about it, I just think it's only fair she know everything about me, and I expect she will as things continue to go very well. We keep discovering new ways that we think alike.
opt

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Originally Posted by optimism
One of the very first things I said to NG was �I have nothing to hide and you can ask me anything � I will give you the truth� � I meant it and have honored it. She has yet to ask if I was ever unfaithful.

Opt, I know you are trying to do the right thing, and I give you credit for that. Having said that, you know as well as I do that the above comment is a bit of a fig leaf smile . You guys are well past the stage of first or second date, therefore some topics become relatively obvious to have brought up without being asked.

I was never amused to hear about unfaithfulness, numerous bankruptcies, mental illness, etc, after weeks of being involved with someone, and being told "well you never asked". Sure, there was always an explanation and a "but...", but I wish I had been clued in earlier, before things got too tangled up.

The "don't ask don't tell" approach is one that should be left at the doorstep between casual dating and a relationship, whether or not the latter leads to marriage.

You know this as well as I do, so I don't mean to preach to you. You should tell NG about your past, and the sooner the better.

AGG


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Well, I got THAT over with. And it was NO FUN!

She was really upset for a while and all I could do was give her time and try to reassure her without words, staying close and rubbing her back.

Eventually when we could talk she understood that it is in my past and I've done all the examination and learning from the situation that I could. No details disclosed, just that I let it happen and it was the worst most selfish thing I've ever done and I have already put protections in place to make sure it never happens again.

One of the things I love most about NG is how she handles things. She is emotional, but she doesn't let her emotions rule or cloud her thinking or her reactions. These are the demons of her past. She intends to keep them there.

She asked why I felt compelled to tell her and that she didn't need to know. I said that I felt like our relationship had very big potential and that it was important for her to know everything about me if we were to continue to get more serious/intimate. She got it.

Then we made pizzas using big portabello mushrooms as crust. An hour later we were slow dancing in the living room to Kenny Chesney.

...It was the right thing to do even though it suckkkkked. And she was a little upset that I didn't bring it up last week when there was admittedly a better opportunity to do so. I hope the subject of my past never comes up again.

moving on...

On a more upbeat note, she noticed I've been asking her "how do you feel about..." and asked why I phrase questions that way. Gave me a good chance to illustrate the concept of POJA. She was very interested and is into it.

opt

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Good work smile .

AGG


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Originally Posted by optimism
...It was the right thing to do even though it suckkkkked.

Good job! You've done the right thing.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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