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Originally Posted by Mr18708
How can I say she can't have male friends, or limit it to work contact? I would come off like a control freak.
I'm insecure. I'll say it straight out. I'm 38, probably 30lbs heavier than when we married, high school educated and wear jeans and boots to work every day. She's beautiful, in every sense of the word, masters level grad, and works with men and women who can be much younger, college grads, and sharp dressers.

It has not that much to do with "looks" and everything to do with meeting ENs -- I think we have a bikini model right now whose H is having an A on her for heaven's sakes -- and it will be pretty tough for you to do a great job of meeting her ENs when she has poor boundaries and allows male friends/coworkers to meet her needs as well.

Look at this:
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Your wife's relationship with her co-worker probably began with ordinary conversation about work-related issues that developed into intimate conversation when they talked about their personal problems. It was probably very innocent at first, because neither understood that they were making massive deposits into each other's Love Banks. But before long, those deposits triggered intense feelings of love that they communicated to each other, and the rest is history.

What happened to your wife, happens thousands of times every day to husbands and wives who feel they should be able to have friends of the opposite sex. They don't see the danger of falling in love when their intimate emotional needs are met outside of marriage. They usually understand that sex is off limits. But they rarely see intimate conversation (communication of emotional reactions and personal problems) as the first step to an affair. If enough Love Bank deposits are made to trigger romantic love, then our instincts to meet the intimate emotional needs of affection and sexual fulfillment become almost irresistible. Your wife has said that her affair was just emotional, but you can be sure that if you had not discovered it and she had not put an end to it, it would have become sexual as well.

Your wife is undoubtedly now comparing you to her friend, and finding you wanting. You're not as much fun, not as interesting, not as easy to talk to. That's partly because she's not in love with you anymore. Her primary motive to remain married to you is probably her concern for your two children. And she's right to be concerned. A divorce would be a disaster for them. She has decided to stay married to you for their sake, even though it means she must leave her soulmate behind. But she doesn't understand how important it will be for your children, and for each of you, to restore her love for you - for you to be her soulmate. And she doesn't understand how her love for you can be restored.

Listen, I am not telling you to put the cart before the horse. Definitely focus on killing the EA. But please be aware that without EPs in place, it is just a matter of time before the next EA comes along...

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
If your husband, or anyone else, for that matter, doesn't take extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair, they'll end up having one because they're so common and so tempting. From my perspective, it's that simple.


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How can I say she can't have male friends, or limit it to work contact? I would come off like a control freak.
How is that sounding like a control freak? I don't have male friends not in common with my husband. I don't hang out with men, I don't have lunch with men, nothing like that. My H would not permit that. And he doesn't meet one-on-one for lunch, or anything else, with women.

Now, on the other hand? Back in the day, when I was a clueless wife who trusted her H "100%" he told me he was taking a new secretary to lunch. Guess who that was? His future affair partner. Did I say anything about those one-on-one lunch dates? Nope. Because I trusted my husband 100%! crazy BAD IDEA. TERRIBLE IDEA. You should never trust your spouse 100%!

So the innocent lunch dates turned into a full-blown affair. See how it works?

Your wife should not have male friends of her own. And they definitely should not be texting, inappropriate texts or otherwise.

That's not being a control freak. That's protecting your M, the most important thing you've got.


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Originally Posted by Mr18708
especially when I've still got trust issues from years ago.

Please do not label yourself as having "trust issues". This is your body's natural and healthy way of telling you you are not safe.

We can't force ourselves to trust someone. Trust grows or diminshes based on someone's behavior. When your W had an A, she naturally lost your trust and then she continued the same reckless behavior that led to her first A so OF COURSE you don't trust her!


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Thank you folks. I'll expand more on what has been posted.
The first affair was with who I thought was one of my best friends in the world. He was the guy I would have cried to if I found out my wife was cheating. I didn't adjust to marriage like I should have, plus my job had me traveling for weeks on end. Top it off with this guy being a step away from a predator, and I was screwed.
The OM now is a co worker, non married. How I wish I could have kept that text. But even if I did, wouldn't any complaint have to come from my wife, not me?

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I've already told my wife I wouldn't be contacting him. Do you think he would stop or just feel emboldened enough to keep it up? He has to know she's married, and I can't lay out anything that could be perceived as a threat. Unless I get something else to go on, which I hope I don't, I think calling him up would break my word to my wife. I've told her many times, I'm willing to fight for this marriage, by any means.

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The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise. You need to make it very clear to this man that he was out of line and his inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated by you. Don't threaten, but promise to keep your eye on him and promise - don't threaten - that hell is coming his way if he doesn't stop.

Since this man is threatening your marriage, this very much does concern you. Apparently your wife believes it ok to risk your marriage like this, so obviously the warning will not be coming from her. If you value your marriage at all, you will defend it when it is being threatened. If it is ok for the OM to threaten you, it is ok for you to defend your marriage.

The next big issue I would address is your wife's terrible boundaries around men. She is a loose cannon and is headed towards affair #2 if she doesn't learn appropriate behavior.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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The way it was explained to me was this guy is a symptom, not the actual problem. My wife said neither one of us is happy, etc etc, she loves me like a brother now. Hopefully if I get this EN under control in a favorable way, other things will fall into line.

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From my perspective, the problem is the mindset of your wife. And the "she loves you like a brother" thing is the direct consequence of that mindset not vice versa.

One thing that I have learned here is that plain hoping that things will fall into line will not work. You have to have a plan and you have to follow it. Otherwise you'll end up like me. My W had also affairs in early marriage. We also swept it under the rug und "moved on". I also had some "trust issues". Eventually, after more affairs lately and affairs of my own and finally me finding MB, ending my own stupid affairs and killing my wife's one we got our lifes back on track.

But only after direct actions of both of us, there was no accidental luck or good position of the stars.


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Plan A will attack the "love you like a brother" thing. I'd consider sending a look and attitude to your ww that you're not her brother, you're her husband!

Maybe some new clothes, a new haircut, visit the gym, and look and smell your best! Above all no begging or pleading (women hate that).

Troubleshoot her main EN's and find out what she responds to well. Does she need conversation, affection and admiration? What ARE your ww's emotional needs?

And of course, the whole milf thing needs to be addressed. My own dh called me that one day but that's fine. If somebody ELSE said that to me, they'd get whomped in the face with my big azz purse (have a few of those). It is NOT something nice to say to a woman if she isn't your w.

Does your w know that being called that by somebody OTHER than their partner is an insult? Have you framed it that way? If she's a professional woman, then she is probably concerned with others SEEING her as that equal professional, so I'd play that card. Tell her it's insulting as a PROFESSIONAL woman for another equal to say that to her, that it degrades her and is not something that should be said in the workplace.

Can you check your cell bill to find if there are lots of texting and calls to potential om's number?

Here's my take. If she is NOT in an affair, she's close to one b/c of her lack of romantic feelings to you and her inappropriate boundaries w/the opposite sex.

So that has to stop now. And YOU, sir, need to do an awesome, dude-ly plan A! Win her back with A! Learn those top EN's she has and center front focus on those, while looking, and smelling your best. Be THAT guy she fell in love with all over again!


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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Originally Posted by Mr18708
The way it was explained to me was this guy is a symptom, not the actual problem. My wife said neither one of us is happy, etc etc, she loves me like a brother now. Hopefully if I get this EN under control in a favorable way, other things will fall into line.

"Explained" to you by whom? By your counselor?

Buddy, I was once an OM. That's right... I had an affair with a married woman. So I have some perspective on this that you don't have, and pardon me, your "counselor" probably doesn't have either. Now listen up:

Yes, your wife's lack of boundaries is the main problem, but you also have marital boundaries to protect, and this guy is inside your wire, man. It's incumbent on you to lay down some suppressing fire so he understands that as far as he's concerned, "Your wife" = "trouble" for him.

When my OW was throwing herself at me, one of her sob-stories was that (she claimed) her husband didn't want to spend time with her, seemed ambivalent about her, etc. Well, he wasn't ambivalent. [I learned later from her -- too late -- that he woke her up one night as he was crying over the feeling that he was unable to make her happy. But that was later -- too late for me.]

Anyway, he wasn't ambivalent; he certainly cared about his marriage on some level, and perhaps a great deal. (Like you.) He'd actually been suspicious because of her behavior vis-a-vis me, and because of a prior affair she'd been having (of which he also didn't fully know the extent). If he'd come to me early-on and said "I'm not happy with how much time you & my wife are spending together," that might've made a huge difference for me. At the time, I would've argued (somewhat disingenuously) that we were just rehearsing music & talking about music together, and that it wasn't anything for him to be concerned about. BUT I can also say truthfully that I might well have watched my step & caught myself before going all the way over a cliff from an EA to a PA. His stepping in earlier might not have solved her boundary issues by itself, but I can tell ya it sure might've had a salutary impact on mine if I'd thought that I was being watched. (BTW, he finally followed his gut instinct and hired a PI, but that didn't happen until after his wife & I had been in a physical affair for 4 weeks.)

You can write to his superior with the allegation of his MILF comment. Nothing wrong with doing that. Is it ironclad evidence? No. But if his message came from a work account, then they might have backups on their system. Point is, you need to confidently lay down a marker that his lousy conduct, and any further steps on his part onto the territory of your marriage, will not be tolerated lying down.

I understand you want to be seen as taking the high road & being a compelling, nice guy toward your wife. But here's the thing: If she won't send him a clear signal that his conduct is intolerable, it means she's not only willing to tolerate it, but that it is probably filing some sort of emotional need of hers -- for admiration/attention/compliements, whatever. To use an analogy, he's pouring water into her emotional glass. And yes, you can try to do the same, but you won't be able to get all of your water into her glass, because it's already partly full with the water that he's putting into it.

Beyond this, failure on your part to react -- failing to lay down a clear marker -- will send a signal that will be received by him as an indication that you're either too clueless to know, or too ambivalent & passionless to care, that he's sending messages of a inappropriately suggestive nature to your wife.

Take it from me, pal. I know.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
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"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
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The last three posters had it exactly right.

You need to be in Plan A in a big way, and not needy or clingy. Leadership, confidence, closing gaps in your appearance, behaviour. Not an insult, but something is lacking. Easy to fall into that in marriage.

OM needs to know who you are, and that you WILL NOT allow this to happen.

WW needs to know you will defend her and your marriage. If she has poor boundaries, those need to be shored up.

I hope this is just an EA. I was in your position a year ago and I wish I got the advice then that you are getting now. My life for the last year - and the next five might have been very different.

In one sentence - stop worrying about whats already been done or said and get in the fight!


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Originally Posted by Mr18708
The way it was explained to me was this guy is a symptom, not the actual problem. My wife said neither one of us is happy, etc etc, she loves me like a brother now. Hopefully if I get this EN under control in a favorable way, other things will fall into line.

Yes, he is a symptom of other problems, namely your wife's poor boundaries and the fact that you act like a brother instead of a husband, however, this symptom can SINK your marriage if it is not addressed. The sinking of the Titanic was a "symptom" of bad navigation, but if the sinking was not stopped and addressed, there would be no navigation issues TO address. It is the same with your marriage. Ignoring the affair will only ensure that your marriage does not survive enough to address those other issues.

I KNOW why your wife views you as a brother, it is because you ACT LIKE a brother. You don't protect or defend your marriage. Your complacence reflects a lack of caring.

If you want to turn this around, you need to kill this affair FIRST so you have a marriage to save. We can help you restore the love in your marriage *IF* you man up and run off this interloper. But there is NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING - we can tell you to do that will compensate for the damage this EA is causing. That is because all the need meetin in the world will get you nowhere if her needs are being met elsewhere.

The contrast effect will NEGATE anything you do. Unless you address and kill the affair head on, you are spinning your wheels and wasting your time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Mr18708
I've already told my wife I wouldn't be contacting him. Do you think he would stop or just feel emboldened enough to keep it up? He has to know she's married, and I can't lay out anything that could be perceived as a threat. Unless I get something else to go on, which I hope I don't, I think calling him up would break my word to my wife. I've told her many times, I'm willing to fight for this marriage, by any means.

You have to out of your rocker if you think things will just "buff" out magically without any kind of action plan. The reason why your wife doesn't want you talking to him is because she is in an affair with him. She is enjoying her kicks as you do nothing. You should be confronting him. You should be exposing this guy for all its worth. You need to tell him back off immediately. Your wife also needs to quit her job if he won't.

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I am a teacher who had an A with a single coworker. It was a terrible, inexcusable choice that was brought on by my lack of boundaries, and it was 100% on me. I say that because A) it is the truth and B) I don't want what I am about to say to be misinterpreted.

My DH is a wonderful man. He is also basically passive, not assertive, kind of lets the relationship "happen," and is not apt to be the pursuer. So....when that personality and history was combined with me nursing and allowing my resentment to erode my boundaries.....when the OM told me actively and assertively how attractive, interesting, creative, blah blah blah I was.....well, let's just say I bought it. Being wanted was like a drug. A horrible, wrong, immoral drug, but a drug.

The number one thing that needs to happen is for your wife's thinking to be transformed....that's what I needed.

But she isn't here. So all I can say is fight for not just your M....but for your woman.

As far as the supervisors, I can tell you that like it or not, most administrators (unless it is a private conservative Christian school) might - might - call in the OM AND your W and give them a talk on being professional.....the OM is not going to get fired over a text, Just not gonna happen, especially if the male teacher is a good teacher. Not to mention that most schools re like tiny gossipy towns, and EVERYONE in that building will know about it within 48 hours. Now, the immediate reaction of satisfaction over that is certainly valid.....but especially if you have kids that might attend that school, etc.....unless there is a full blown actual affair, you might not want the entire town knowing about the text.

But this doesn't need to be let go. My DH had some "vibes" about the OM way before the OM hit on me. Man, I wish he had said something. My choices are all on me, but I sure wish I had realized what he was thinking.

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Originally Posted by Mr18708
I've already told my wife I wouldn't be contacting him. Do you think he would stop or just feel emboldened enough to keep it up? He has to know she's married, and I can't lay out anything that could be perceived as a threat. Unless I get something else to go on, which I hope I don't, I think calling him up would break my word to my wife. I've told her many times, I'm willing to fight for this marriage, by any means.
Doing nothing is Plan Hope. We don't typically see very positive results when a BS chooses Plan Hope. That segues into Plan Doormat after the EA goes PA. That Plan never has a pretty outcome, either.

If you're willing to fight for your marriage I would suggest you corral this punk now and let him know that you have no intention of standing by and watching while he disrespects your wife and your marriage. If a loser potential OM has advance notice that his target's husband is ready to rumble, he will more than likely back off. He has no dog in the fight at that point.

Wait too long and the chance is good that you'll have the much harder work of killing a physical affair.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 04/24/11 02:34 PM.

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Originally Posted by Mr18708
My wife said neither one of us is happy, etc etc, she loves me like a brother now. Hopefully if I get this EN under control in a favorable way, other things will fall into line.

This is basically a form of ILYBINILWY...which is what waywards say when they have developed a romantic interest in someone else...NOT because you aren't meeting a specific need!

Please read this:
Carrot & Stick of Plan A

Get your Plan A together. Make the house a pleasant place to be, get sexy and avoid lovebusters, etc. Do whatever you can to woo your WW back to the M...but please understand this:
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
But there is NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING - we can tell you to do that will compensate for the damage this EA is causing. That is because all the need meetin in the world will get you nowhere if her needs are being met elsewhere.

This needs to be repeated because it is THAT important for you to understand (and this is perhaps one of the most misunderstood aspects of Plan A). Plan A = BS demonstrates a willingness to meet ENs. Not necessarily that you will be able to meet your WW's ENs...because it is very difficult to make LB$ deposits when someone is involved in an A.

You need to start thinking about interfering in this A. Like so many other posters have already told you, I would start by letting this OM know that you aren't going to stand by and let him ruin your M.

I know your W already made you promise not to contact him, but the BHs who come here and afraid of conflict and upsetting thier WWs don't make it, Mr1878. We have a saying around here: Your M can survive your W's anger but it won't survive an affair!


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