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I agree with AM--sending good thoughts your way.
((((Katey)))
Life will be full of ups and downs. At least your DSs are healthy and doing surprisingly well despite all of the trauma brought on by WH.
Keep up the good fight!


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Thinking about you, Katey--it's been a long time since you've updated....


Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
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WOW! 7 months since I last posted.

Here is a small, but long update�

WH moved in with OW & her kids end of March. DSx3 go there for scheduled visitation. DSs 10 & 13 share room with OW�s S13; OW�s D15 was moved out of her room which is now DS16�s room (the D15�s room was moved to a converted porch). Visitation was every T/TH 3-6:30 and every other weekend (WH picks up on Fr; I pick them up on Su at 6:30pm) it is now currently just every other Sat-Sun due to WH�s work schedule. The company WH works for is remaining open and WH now works on second shift M-F. In the summer months WH had visitation on T/TH from 10-3. This has diminished the number of times I see WH� once every two weeks. He will sometimes call DSs from work in the evening maybe once a week. He also sends me emails from work about 1 am for me to tell the boys he loves them and misses them and to have a good day at school.

I have gotten a very sour taste re: the court system. The violations I filed in March I officially withdrew at the last court hearing in September. My biggest reason being that they weren�t going anywhere, and the most that I thought could have been achieved through this was. The judge was not going to withhold visitation (WH�s new work schedule is doing that naturally). Out of the several court hearings re: these violations, the judge ordered WH and I to attend �communication� counseling per the Law Guardian�s recommendation prior to the last hearing. I attended with WH and very painful for me to go through this. I did inform WH during one session that I am not his friend and he is definitely not mine, nor do I see us developing a friendship. We are on two separate pages now and the qualities/values/beliefs that he has now conflict with mine. We communicate using email. WH does not like this but it�s nice to have things in black and white so there is no question.

It has gotten interesting� At the hearing in September, my attorney informs the judge that I am withdrawing the petitions. The judge and law guardian are in agreement and just as the judge is getting ready to adjourn WH states �but I still want us to attend counseling�. WHY� court is ending, no more hearings, no more nothing, WH doesn�t have to see me which is what he wanted to begin with� right?? The judge encourages this and WH states that he will schedule the appt. My curiosity kicked in which is why I agreed and ultimately went (last Thursday). I honestly didn�t think WH would schedule an appt. b/c it was over a month later that he actually did.

After the hearing WH requests to meet with LG, and I go along too just to hear what WH is talking about. At this time, I am reassured that I made the right decision. If this hearing continued to trial the LG was going to recommend to the judge that WH and I attend Co-Parenting classes together. I don�t need classes on how to parent my children and make �nice� with a WH. WH proceeds to discuss how he is concerned with DS13 being upset (he is just noticing this now and not a year and a half ago when I had concerns).

WH and I attended �communication� counseling last Th. The counselor voiced her surprise that we had come back to which I agreed to being just as surprised. When WH was asked why, he stated quickly and in a being-put-on-the-spot voice �well to just follow up with our communication with each other.� This turned into a very emotionally draining session for both of us. I still am processing this; there was a lot thrown out there�. Here are some highlights. At one point we were both openly crying. The counselor stated how amazed she was that given our current situation we were showing our vulnerability to each other. She at one point stating how confused she was by this asked WH if he thought he wanted to repair the marriage. WH has thought about this several times because of the boys, the guilt, and �other� reasons but he�s not ready to discuss. He just doesn�t know. He recognized that he betrayed me. He has noticed positive changes in me since he left- some physical, the strength I have shown. He is still attracted to me. He was very happy that I withdrew the violations. The counselor asked him if he was grateful did he thank me. He never has, so she encouraged him to do this. WH stated that now (at the counselor�s office) is not the place to tell me this. There�s more just difficult to go through again� but the counselor did encourage WH to get counseling and then requested to meet with him after I left.

I thought this may have been a turning point for WH�. I thought I would feel better knowing that his relationship with OW isn�t all that great� But the fact of the matter is he still lives with OW and her kids. I know he�s the one that needs to make changes; he is the only one who controls his actions and choices. And since then he has requested to get boys early Halloween weekend b/c he & OW want to take her kids and DS's to Salem, MA to a Haunted House. DS16 is refusing to go, DS13 is unsure, DS10 wants to go. WH's relationships with DS's have deteriorated.

And now that there aren�t any court hearings hanging over my head, being discouraged by my atty, law guardian and judge from having an IM and doing a Plan B, I can shift my thinking.

I know this is a lot, but a lot has gone on in 7 months. Advice, questions always welcome.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Hi Katedid,

Glad you came back. Just curious, why did you stay away for 7 months? I read your story from the begining of this thread, it seems like MB was such a support for you and then in March, nothing...

While reading it I wondered after the custody and divorce proceedings why you didn't go to plan B. The exposure to your WH at all of the sporting events seemed incrediable crual to me and your sons. I can't even begin to imagine how hard it was. I think plan B would also show to your sons that you will not tolerate such poor treatment of yourself and feelings. This would be showing them a good example. Also, the constant stress you must have been or are under has to have affected your relationships with them. Please consider this.

I would seriously be cautious on your interactions with your WH. He has been incrediably cruel and what you say above doesn't even come close to a realization of what pain he has caused. Have you considered going on AD's?

Last question, how did housebreaking the beagle go?

All the best,

ba


Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
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Quote
At one point we were both openly crying. The counselor stated how amazed she was that given our current situation we were showing our vulnerability to each other. She at one point stating how confused she was by this asked WH if he thought he wanted to repair the marriage. WH has thought about this several times because of the boys, the guilt, and �other� reasons but he�s not ready to discuss. He just doesn�t know.

katey, I haven't read your whole story, but this last post just sounds like a very weird setup. I realize you are not divorced, per your sig line, but the truth is that WH is living with his girlfriend but still spending lots of time with you and going to counseling sessions and crying over you - ?

Yet he does nothing to change this situation.

After too many years of reading here, and from personal experience, any time a WS says "I don't know what I want" it really means, "I want what I have right now, for just as long as I can manipulate my BS into going along with it."

In other words, the WS wants both the spouse and the OP. Which is exactly what your WH has.

Don't be fooled by his tears. Unless and until he's crying enough to get rid of his girlfriend and come home, his tears don't mean a thing.


Me, BW
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MB has been/is a great support! I do wish that I had done a Plan B�. it�s just that IRL my attorney and the boys� law guardian did not understand this and stated that it could end up negatively impacting the child custody/visitation with WH. So, I did what I felt was in the best interest of DSs to not jeopardize my custody with them and to keep OW away from them during their visitation with WH as much as possible for as long as possible (over a year, though there were infractions by WH which is why I filed the violations.)

And� I have not posted in awhile, mostly due to being very busy with DSs schedules and WH not being around to help as much with his newer 2nd shift schedule. I'm still at work now, obviously not working. DSs and I are currently looking at paring down the # of activities that each participates in as I am running all the time and I�m not getting to bed until midnight. I do lurk here, reading various threads, and re-reading the MB material/concepts� which leads me to my current situation. I�m ready for the advice� and the 2x4�s�

WH and I have been talking since early Nov, mostly due to what was expressed in the court-ordered counseling sessions (and, yes all the while WH living with OW). I found myself really listening to WH instead of falling back into my caretaking fixer role and responding with a �no, you can�t think that way; let�s fix this by�� I also found myself expressing myself without letting the fear of rejection by WH inhibit me. Yes, I continue with my IC.

WH moved out of OW�s house the Sunday before Thanksgiving and moved in with his sister and her boyfriend, where he continues to live. WH said to me that he moved out b/c it was unhealthy, this had been coming on for months, they were fighting/arguing, he was accused of having other girlfriends (one of them being me- I�m the WIFE not a gf) and he wasn�t happy�. HMMMM�. yup, the 2 yr affair implosion timeline. I have been told that he loves me, always has, he moved out because of the pain he saw me in caused by him (yeah, OK), he has said good night to me every night. But, per WH he also has some lingering feelings for OW, and are his feelings for me stronger now b/c of his �troubles� with OW, if he moves home it has to be for the right reasons (not just for DSs), and how will he know that he won�t do this to me again.

He has started IC a week ago and has been 2x now. WH called me today and said that he is taking one of the suggestions from his IC to take a break from everyone (specifically me and OW) and focus on him and figuring his issues out. He doesn�t know where this will lead him.

So this is my update in a not-so-small nutshell.

P.S. the housebreaking of our 10 yr old beagle did not go well�. We will bring him inside on the colder nights and crate him to contain the messes.

Last edited by kateydid; 12/09/10 06:16 PM. Reason: bad grammar

BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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I really wish you would have Plan B'd. We can't go back on would of/could of 's though.

What is it that you need from us though? All I can see is that your WH continued his affair until it fizzled out. Now, he has moved out of OW's house. He is attending IC who is focused on HIM and NOT your marriage. I would call the Harleys. Find out there take. If you can't afford it, email DrH and get on the radio show.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Well�.. False Recovery- 1; Kateydid- 0

It�s been awhile, the past 7 months have turned out to be nothing more than the beginning of a false recovery. Since I last posted, WH went through some of the motions of indicating a reconciliation. I knew there was contact with him and OW during this time through my �snooping� and intel I had available (which I no longer have a key piece available to me now). It appeared to be the contact that one has when �breaking up� , but regardless it was contact. He did a great job of dropping crumbs, and like a hungry, desperate mouse I ate them right up and put the rose colored glasses back on.

WH never moved back in with me and 3 DS�s, but we would spend time together alone and with DS�s. WH would come over after his shift was done if it wasn�t too late to spend time with me. Yes there was SF and it was great. On Easter, WH came over in early morning to spend with me and boys and then in the afternoon we all went over to his parent�s for dinner. We all enjoyed this time together. As I look back this time was only spent in our home, or in his parents� home. If we were out in public at any of the DS�s functions there wasn�t as much interaction from WH. When there was it was as if he was very nervous/scared� which I accepted.

But, during this time, he called in addition to texting daily, to talk� about our days, the boys days, flirt with each other, etc� up until last Sunday.

I noticed a shift in WH�s responses/reactions to me after last Sunday. I am absolutely sure I know why (it is my gut instinct, first reaction when I found out what is currently going on). Last Sunday I get a text from WH wishing me a Happy Mother�s Day and wondering where we are. I find out later through messages left on home answering machine that he had stopped several times that day to see us. The last message he left started out in normal voice, but by the end it was full of emotion and cracking�. �Please tell the boys I love them and that I miss them.� We went to my mom�s for the day and when I didn�t text back b/c I was driving he calls DS14 to find out where we are. We get home later and the lights are on at home� WH is there waiting for us, but is very distant and cold�.. Gut instinct is screaming at me that something happened that afternoon between his text and our getting home. No contact with me after this until Thursday. There were just messages left at home to tell the boys he loves them, and he will try to call back later to talk �with the boys� That is constantly being stated by him now �with the boys� vs. �with you and the boys�.

Small back track here�. In the last 2 weeks, there have been pictures of OW with a new man on FB on vacation together and FB statuses of both now state �in a relationship�. (Just an odd digression� OW and her new man have been friends for several months on FB� OW and WH never �friended� each other.) My gut is telling me that WH now knows about this� he either went to OW�s house when he knew we weren�t at home and her new bf was there or she just told him. WH no longer has his �choices� of me and OW. And, she is definitely with another man (a single one this time). He was with her yesterday and WH saw them together too (DS16�s prom, we were at school, OW/new man are at school as well to get OW�s daughter from sporting event). Also, I know that WH is removing OW from auto ins policy per a phone call from insurance agent this past Tuesday.

This past Thursday, when I get home I notice some keys on my table. DS11 & 14 give them to me and say they look like Dad�s house keys. I call WH to see if he lost/forgot these keys and he says in a very flat, cold tone �No, I left them there. I have moved on. I moved on a long time ago. I was done long before OW� I ask about the last seven months and what it all means and if it was all just lies�.. �I don�t know, I did it b/c of DS�s it was just for them, I don�t love you, you never loved me, I do love you� Again I ask if these past months were all just a lie �well if that�s what you want to and need to believe� . WTH???

This morning he picks DS�s up for the day, first non-public face to face, and I pushed it with him. Same questions and he can�t even look at me eye to eye when he repeats the �I�ve moved on� crap. I did tell him it was cowardly to just leave the keys on the table (instead of handing them to me the next time he saw me) and that it really affected the boys to see them laying on the table� DS11 broke down saying �Daddy is never coming home now. Will I ever see daddy again?� I feel responsible for their unhappiness and that I�m putting them through this hurt and pain again.

So, here I am again� Devastated and desperate (which per my IC I have issues with� desperation, holding on with huge hooks, self-hatred, shame)�. And a lot of questions�.

WTH has just happened? What have these past 7 months been about? Am I just getting the full force of his anger at OW b/c he knows that I love him and still want to reconcile? Is he mad b/c he thinks I caused OW to finally end their relationship b/c I didn�t make their adulterous affair easy? Is he angry b/c his choice between me and OW has been taken away from him? Is he doing these things now to prove to OW he loves her? Why is he being so cold to me now (he even accused me Fri night that I was keeping the boys away from him)?Which way do I go now? I tell myself to just be still, focus on me and DS�s, but I just can�t seem to do it. Feeing sucker-punched and kicked to the curb yet again. I�m just a mess�


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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You were sucker punched but be still anyway.
Go dark? Go to the plan B?

Kick him to the curb with a dark plan B?

File something on him since he is in lala land again?

I put question marks after my suggestions because only you know what you should do.

Being still is a state of not being in a rush. Taking calculated moves. Not allowing someone else's actions to define us as people. To define ourselves. Even and especially in sucky junctures. YK?

edited to add....that stuff about it being over long ago. He doesn't this about you that about you.....he is trying to get reactions from you. He is aching for a fight to justify his feelings. He probably IS feeling awful OW is involved with someone else and he is using you to vent his angst of a woman not pining away for him. It was defining him and now it seems it isn't. That threw him off balance of his sense of being a catch. A big fish. Someone at least two women were angling for. He turns the sense of it back on you to build himself up again.

Last edited by reading; 05/15/11 11:48 AM.
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Not a vet here but I vote for a dark plan B. Seems like perfect timing. He's lost her and he's gonna lose you, too, unless he straightens up his act. Otherwise, I'm not sure he'll ever learn to respect you or see what he'll be missing.

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Originally Posted by kateydid
Well�.. False Recovery- 1; Kateydid- 0

It�s been awhile, the past 7 months have turned out to be nothing more than the beginning of a false recovery.

The problem, katey, is there was NO recovery. It sounds like there was never any true NC with OW and no real commitment to the M, no EPs, no nothing.

I fear if you don't realize this, you will continue to take the crumbs your H throws at you which, yes, he will continue to do... He has been cake eating for so long, I doubt he will really want to give it up.

You need to move to Plan B and not take your H back until he commits to a real plan of recovery ~ moves back into the home, implements EPs, agrees to be transparent, etc.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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Quote
Being still is a state of not being in a rush. Taking calculated moves. Not allowing someone else's actions to define us as people. To define ourselves. Even and especially in sucky junctures.


This is an ongoing topic of discussion with my IC... I allow myself to be defined by others- their actions and thoughts, or what I think they are thinking of me. I feel very trapped by this.

Quote
that stuff about it being over long ago. He doesn't this about you that about you.....

Reading, what did you mean by this?

YES!! I need Plan B for me. I can't take this drama; it is taking it's toll on me and my 3DS's. I just don't think I can be strong enough and it has a lot to do with what Reading said.

More drama tonight after boys got home from WH.... This morning I brought up to WH, in a moment that I am now not proud of but what's done is done, how much the boys were affected by the keys on the table and even asked DS11 to confirm that to WH, which he did. WH was not happy to hear this, and I told him this would be a great way to talk to DS's about their feelings right now in all of this.

Well, per DS14 & 11, WH did talk to them.... but not about how they are feeling.. it was about how WH is not sleeping/eating well right now because of me and OW, it would be stressful to him if he moved back in with us, but (and get this) not stressful if he were to move back in with OW. That is what he wants. HUH?? he moved out b/c it was an unhealthy environment, they were arguing all the time, even her kids were unhappy with them together. This was not only said to me, but his IC when he went last year.

Now WH told DS's he wants to contact their law guardian to talk with the boys.... ummm.... I don't know if this can be done because we have nothing to do with Family Court at this point, nothing pending. Family court proceedings ended last year. Anyone have any info on this?? I have not kept the boys away from WH, I have opened our lives in our home back up to him. He has been able to come to our home when he wants because of his stated intent months ago. The court ordered visitation schedule has not been followed due to this. On WH's weekends he doesn't have them Friday night b/c he now works on this night, and on Saturday nights they are brought back home b/c his sister does not have room for them to sleep there. The boys have grown accustomed to this.

My friend thinks he is on his way to hitting rock bottom; he is floundering right now b/c OW told him "no" to his cake eating. Either she truly is in a new relationship and will continue with it, or she is manipulating WH to get him back. If WH were to move back with OW, it won't last b/c the last time it didn't due to the reasons stated earlier and now there would be the manipulation factor added in. I don't want to be near him if he is about to hit bottom, but I feel like there is a huge magnet around him and no matter what I'm not strong enough to fight the attraction.

Yes, I need Plan B. I recognize it, but my brain and heart seem to be soooo far apart from each other. How can I do this and not react out of desperation and frustration??? How???


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by kateydid
Well�.. False Recovery- 1; Kateydid- 0

It�s been awhile, the past 7 months have turned out to be nothing more than the beginning of a false recovery.

The problem, katey, is there was NO recovery. It sounds like there was never any true NC with OW and no real commitment to the M, no EPs, no nothing.

I fear if you don't realize this, you will continue to take the crumbs your H throws at you which, yes, he will continue to do... He has been cake eating for so long, I doubt he will really want to give it up.

You need to move to Plan B and not take your H back until he commits to a real plan of recovery ~ moves back into the home, implements EPs, agrees to be transparent, etc.

I agree. Dark Plan B.


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

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"Yes, I need Plan B. I recognize it, but my brain and heart seem to be soooo far apart from each other. How can I do this and not react out of desperation and frustration??? How??"

Indeed you don't want to do this (go to plan B). But you do it anyway. You do it with your head and not your 'heart' and as with all other things

action leads to feelings

You go to B and live B and eventually, if you stay truly dark (not peeking at WH) you find that your soul buys into it (plan B).
It takes time. Less time if you don't peek at him.

You might want to file and just go through the D. I say this since he is pulling this doody on you after appearing to be game for recovery. I say this as a BW who actually believes in building marriages and the MB plans BUT only you know whether you need to go in that direction while plan Bing. You know the nuances of your marriage (finacially,etc) and you know what gumption you have left in you.

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Is it always necessary to deliver Plan B letter in person?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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I did not. I put it in an envelope, with a picture of our family, and put it in the bag with his stuff packed in it, which I left for him at his parents' house, when I kicked him out.

I then texted him and told him, without warning, where he could find his stuff. About two seconds after I called his girlfriend. Blindsided.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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