Rays,

advised that I not include family and friends in the affair issue.

Too late it takes a village to support an affair, not fun to maintain appearances when you are dissolving from the inside.

The affair should had been handled between my wife and I.

He must mean that you consented before hand?

He feels that these things usually disappear after time.

Ignoring them does not work hence my issue 20+ years later.

I can't say that the approach here is magic. However I advised my W what to say to a friend was was definitely divorcing, and they are now on the mend. That was after they had spent a great deal on standard marriage counselors.

God Bless
Gamma

Ray, that is why I am so scared of "counselors!" They have no idea what they are doing and folks would be better off getting a pedicure! Thank goodness you followed Dr Harleys advice!

Glad to hear you are working on the marriage now. just a suggestion, put the daughter issue on the back burner for a while until you get well into recovery. You don't want to sabatoge your recovery by starting off with such a volatile issue right off the bat.

Keep up the good work, Ray!

Ray,

You might want to call the Harleys for marriage coaching, and drop your counselor. (Or, you could just take your hard-earned money to the bathroom, flush it down the toilet, and call that counseling....same difference if you continue with the counselor you describe. Might save you the time and aggravation, and you could watch a good baseball game instead. IMHO)


One of the tips I have offered in the past was a wait-before-talking technique. I think it might work for you. Try it and see.

What you do is when your wife begins talking about the relationship, or when the two of you are in a conversation about something serious, your rule is that when you ask a question or when your wife is talking, you are not allowed to begin your "turn" until you have counted to at least 15 after she stops talking.

you count slooowwwwly to 15.


then you can start your turn.



For example, you ask a question, and she answers it. and you think she's done. buuuuutttttttt


you do not talk or reply again until you count to 15 (minimum)


This allows a delay of at least 10 seconds or so of DEAD SILENCE.


Now, most people don't like that. It can be annoying. So, they fill it in with "more".

And that "more" is quite often the actual golden gem that gives you what you need to know - the depth that you are looking for, that leads to the REAL information, the genuine underpinnings of the thoughts of the preceding answers they just gave. Or, they give you the little nuggets that are couched as afterthoughts, but are little tickles that allow you to lead into deeper conversations and information that you would NEVER have gotten to had you spoken on the heels of their turn.


Leave space for those little nuggets. C. O. U. N. T. To 15 after everything she says.


If she looks at you, or asks you something like, "What?" or "Did I say something wrong?" -which she may do - you answer only, "Oh, I was trying to listen closely to what you say" or "I am learning to understand and listen more carefully to you, so I wanted to be sure I was thinking about what you said."


Those seconds will be filled up. Wait and see. You will learn more about your wife in those little seconds than you ever thought before.


And she will learn that YOU have learned to LISTEN.


In just 15 seconds.


What is hardest about this is SHUTTING UP and not jumping on stuff! Because you will be so very excited about what you learn, and the CHANGE you will see in HER will blow your mind.


SB

HELP!!!

I just found some hidden texts from before exposure. The affair was physical. I feel like such a fool....I was fooled completely.

I do not know what to do at the moment.

Has your WW actually denied that the A was physical? Typically they'll take the "lying by omission" approach.

Do you know if the A is still going on?

Do you still want to recover your M, knowing that the A was physical as well as emotional?

Yes she has denied it was physical. As far as I can tell the affair is over, but I do not know what to believe.

I just don't know what I feel at the moment.

I am so sorry, Ray. I thought you knew she was lying about this?

Mel, I had my suspicions, but actually reading the texts was proof.

What is her explanation? Have you confronted her?

Agreed - it's time to confront her. Just make and do it in a way that doesn't turn the conversation into a he-said she-said exercise in denial.

e.g. "I have discovered proof today that your affair actually was physical as well as emotional, which means that you've been lying to me all along. I would like to know why you chose to lie to me about this."

If she starts to deflect or ask about the proof, respond with "That is not of concern to me right now. What concerns me is that you chose to lie to me about it. I would like to know why."

And if she still continues to deny, end the conversation.

I confronted her. She denied at first but confessed as I explained what I found. She told me she hasn't had contact with him since she changed her cell number and felt we were making progress. She wants to know were we go from here and I honestly do not know at the moment.

I would get it all out now. Is there more? Tell her you need all your questions answered openly and honestly to go on. What about the OM's wife? Who is she and where is she? Ask her those questions. If she is sincere about this, she will tell you. The OMW needs to know about the affair and she has to agree to help you do that. <----get this now while she feels guilty, Ray.

Additionally, you have to have her committment to this program of recovery. Here is my post again:


Explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to stay in a loveless marriage with no plan for recovery. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph if necessary

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

Ray, hit her with this NOW while the iron is hot. You won't have this same chance tomorrow after she regroups. Get as much as you CAN NOW.

Lies like this have a way of resetting the recovery clock. I'd ask her if there's anything else that needs to be disclosed; anything else that she's been lying about, because you really don't want that clock reset too often.

Another thing - knowing that our WWs have actually gone physical in their As can change our outlook about recoving the M significantly. It's one thing to *suspect*, it's another to actually *know* that your WW's was intimate with another man and playing you for a fool. Your emotions are likely going to be pretty raw for some time. However, I suggest keeping an eye on the end-game - if you really want to recover your M, your actions need to be in line with this.

Thanks guys...good stuff.

My wife came completely clean last night and today. She has done a complete 180 in her attitude towards our marriage. She has given me or agreed to everything on my list and then some. She has taken it upon herself to learn more about how we got here. She has cried and apologized to me all day, sincerely. She says she wants her marriage and her husband.

Good job, my man!! You are now positioned to BEGIN marriage recovery.

Ray, I would get her committment to start this program and LEAD your marriage into recovery. Either get into the online program [that comes with a coach] or do it yourself. If you want to do it yourself, I would start with the book Surviving an Affair and use the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. Plan on reading a chapter a night and doing the exercises in the book.

You can start that in addition to scheduling 20+ hours per week of undivided attention time. That time should be scheduled and spread out over the week in 2 to 4 hour increments, meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment and rec companionship. <-------this is the KEY to creating romantic love right here. The program doesn't work without that.

Also, did she give you the name and # of the OMW?

Ray -

I just read your thread. I know too well how much of a whirlwind the last month has been, but you should understand what has happened. Everything Mel has told you was spot on, and every action you've taken has yielded pretty much immediate results. You are no longer groping in the dark for the right answers, you are executing the steps of brilliant plan of action not to restore your marriage, but to make it better than it ever was.

Don't make the mistake of slacking off when the adrenaline flow slows down. You're euphoric right now, but all you've gotten is a stay of execution unless you earnestly dive into the recovery process. You will have good days and bad days, and so will your WW. Stay at this, you will be amazed at the results.

There ought to be statue of Melody Lane standing somewhere.

Thanks fight4life! I think there should be a statue of you guys who drag your marriages out of burning buildings..

Thanks to everyone for your help to get us where we are. I can not thank you enough.

Mel, I did not ask for the OMW #. I do have their address. I have complete access to all of my wifes communication devices and there has been no contact since she ended it.

Thanks again everyone and I will see you in the recovery forum!!

Ray, she needs to be notified. That is critical to your recovery and to your wife's recovery. Don't let this slide because it is TOO important. Ask your wife how to get ahold of her and then get ahold of her. The OMW needs to know so she can watch from her end and so she can protect herself from your wife and her H. She also needs to know so she can get STD testing.

Ray, you can't let this drop.

Has your wife had STD testing? I would have her do this.