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What a wonderful update! I am so happy to hear your DD turned her life around and is taking care of her babies.


Faith

me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Chai!!! How nice to see you! We've missed you around here. I'm so glad to hear your DD is finally on the right track. I bet those grandbabies are growing like weeds. Grandbabies are such a treasure.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Chai, I am so happy to read your update. How wonderful that your DD has stepped up to the plate and is taking care of her children!

Yes, you are a Goddess!

You have grown immeasurably and conducted yourself admiringly throughout your whole ordeal...and come out on top!

I will be praying that any remaining financial worries are soon over for you, as well as for your DD and precious grandchildren.

I really admire you!


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Update:

Well, 2.5 years after the D, and 5.5 years after Dday, my XWH now wants his family back. The A crumbled, so now he wants to talk to me.

I don't have time to tell you all the entire story right now, but just wanted to post so that all of you out there can have some hope.

Me? Not sure about all of this, but I have agreed to hear him out.

Stay tuned.


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years
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WOW. Totally unexpected. Make sure you keep us posted.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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And keep in mind the wayward crapola as a checklist against his behavior.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by ChaiLover
Me? Not sure about all of this, but I have agreed to hear him out.

Stay tuned.

Tuned ..... mr eek

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And for those who are new to her story ..... a vital piece of data !!!
Quote
Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years

Holy cowza! mr eek

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Here is the SchoolBus post on when it's over...

"You can know when he is done when the OW's wails are louder than yours, and when he complains so loudly about her that you wish he would stop talking to you about her.

Seriously, when his complaints about OW are so loud, and so nasty, you will come to believe that OW is out of his life as his "best friend and soulmate."

But how do you know that you know "everything"?

Ask him to sit down as he would with a buddy and tell you his story with OW. Just tell you the story, and you do not interrupt him. He tells you the story about how he met OW and tells the tale as if he were telling another man.

And he talks about her with dreamy eyes at first
(you CAN endure this)

and he talks about the sex
and he talks about the time when they did this or that
and he tells you a story or two you never heard
and then he talks about how it went down the tubes
and his regrets

And you don't HAVE to ask questions to get anything out of him

when he does this, openly and honestly, without fear, without you feeling the need to push or punish, without his needing to hide anything from you.

That's when you know what you need to know.

And you will know it when it happens.

And no, my H hasn't done it yet. I keep hoping. Maybe soon."

SB


This is HH. There are many insightful posts from SB about recovery and false recovery and the "knowing" part. Good luck to you, Chai. You know we're all rooting for YOU because it's all about YOU -- not him or your marriage or the past. YOU -- today and tomorrow.


M 25 yrs, 3 teens
Dday 12/07
5ish False Recoveries (all in 2008)
12/08 WH moves in w/OW, her kids
Plan B/D/FU -- depending on the day
He files 1/09; D final 12/2012
"I'm moving on"
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Do you know what Chai's requirements for recovery are? I hope she keeps the bar high.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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YK.....sometimes it is best not to anticipate or conjecture.

Chai, report back whenever you have met with him and it will be interesting for us to find out how much of his inner work he may have apparently done and how much he still has to do.

This can not be easy for you Chai. We are here for you to support your journey.







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Yes, we would love to hear how this turns out. We've missed you Chai!


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted by Holyheart
Here is the SchoolBus post on when it's over...

..."And you will know it when it happens.

And no, my H hasn't done it yet. I keep hoping. Maybe soon."
Why is this such an "insightful" post? Where did the insights come from? The poster hadn't seen it happen in her own marriage, so how did she know that a WS's real desire to recover looked like that?

I recommend this post from sexymamabear. It lists the requirements she put together after posting on this forum during her separation. She sent these to her H when he made an attempt to reconcile. She only spoke to him in person when he readily agreed to all the conditions, including a post-nup and a polygraph.

She made the point that she wasn't looking for words but for actions. This action-orientated list demanded measurable, concrete actions that the BS could see had been taken, or not taken.

In the case of this particular WH (tst), he initiated all the actions that needed to be taken, such as contacting the coaching centre and a lawyer. When he did those things, smb could see that the affair was really over, and that he genuinely desired a reconciliation.

Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Here is my list of requirements before I will CONSIDER working at reconciliation.

There are attitudes I list followed by actions. You may ask, how will I REALLY know that attitude change is there. The answer is: because he does the actions. I specifically choose actions that he will NEVER do unless it is the real deal. I want it to be almost impossible to get back into my life. The only way in now is authentic recovery, and even then, I'm not sure he gets the ticket in.

REQUIREMENTS TO COMING HOME

Humility

Remorse

Surrender emotionally before me and spiritually before God

Godly sorrow (not fleshly sorrow) (Godly: sorry that I ever had the A & did this to our family. Fleshly: sorry I hurt you)

Authentic repentance

Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)

Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after

Confession & apology to children

Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him

IC, MC, & Family C

Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose

Attend church again

NC Letter

Provide all cell phone & credit card records from this past year

Complete radical honesty about our entire history together

15+ hours together weekly

Pray with me daily

Polygraph

Post Nup agreement that provides for me very well if we ever divorce


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2 kids.
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Definitley, Chai will know if she meets with her x H if he is anywhere he would need to be for her to consider ever having any sort of relationship with him or not.

He will either have some initiative or be totally in renter mentality still.

Chai has walked the path of strength and doesn't even need to meet with him. Whatever she does or doesn't do here is going to be up to powerful her.







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If you are interested in using Dr Harley' advice, you should look for a ready willingness to do the things outlined in the following article as a sign that your H is genuinely keen to reconcile. Four Rules to Guide Marital recovery After an Affair.


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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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He is very likely to be in a fogged out renters mentality when she meets him. (as was tst) This is why it is so critically important for her to set her standards high and lay out conditions for reconciliation. Recoveries don't happen by accident, they happen with a PLAN. And SMBs plan that sugarcane posted is a plan that works. All it takes is willingness.

And of course what she does is up to her, that is not in dispute. But if she wants to recover her marriage she needs to have a real plan.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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One more recommendation from me comes from something I heard on the radio show. I'm afraid that I'm hopeless at keeping records of these, but we have some very meticulous posters here who seem to record what was said in every show, and one of them might be kind enough to link the quote that I am after.

Dr H says that a WH (as opposed to a WW) will show big remorse if he is really finished with the affair AND if he genuinely wants his wife and family back. He says something like "if a WH does not go begging on his knees to his BW, he is not serious and should not be entertained". So, rather than look for him to talk about his affair dispassionately, look for desperation from him. You do not want him to come back home only because he has broken up with OW and does not want to be alone. You want him to want you.

Here is what that Harley-style remorse looked like from sexymamabear's perspective:

Originally Posted by sexymamabear
For the last 5 days, he has been shaking uncontrollably and crying for hours. He cannot sleep and barely eats. He shook all night long last night.

Last night he stayed up and read most of my posts. Coming face to face with ALL my grief and agony on my posts...it devastated him. And he was already devastated and broken...

...I want you to know that he is leading this recovery. He won't give himself down time. He has cleared his cell phone and email records. He has shown me how to check his email and given me passwords. He showed me all three of his accounts. He has written a no contact letter. He wants to get a new cell phone and email account. He told me he believes she will contact him again about items she wants returned, and so he is taking measures to deal with that. I can see that God has removed the scales from his eyes. He has apologized repeatedly to me. He is making a list of people he needs to make amends to. He is quitting all business associations that have taken time away from us. He said he will quit martial arts if I desire, and may even if I don't ask. He said if I want to move, he will. If I want him to sell his business, he will. He said it is WHATEVER I want. He said he never wants to be away from me again. He doesn't want to do anything that I cannot do with him. He said if he needs to work overtime, he wants me to go with him. There is so much more to tell you, but that is a good start.

There is not one tiny part of me that doubts his sincerity.
Now THAT is knowing it when you see it.


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Thanks for all of the support. I have no expectations of anything right now. I have come a long way in the last 4 1/2 years, and I will be fine with whatever happens. I know what I want after all of this, and I will not settle for less, so if he is dead serious about a recovery, he has to prove it.

My goal for tonight is to listen, and listen only. I will then decide where his head and heart are, and if they are not on my side of the street then he knows the road back to OW and I will wish him well. And even if I believe that he is serious, there is a long, long road, and I am not even sure that I have the desire or energy to travel it at this point.





BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years
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Originally Posted by ChaiLover
Thanks for all of the support. I have no expectations of anything right now. I have come a long way in the last 4 1/2 years, and I will be fine with whatever happens. I know what I want after all of this, and I will not settle for less, so if he is dead serious about a recovery, he has to prove it.

My goal for tonight is to listen, and listen only. I will then decide where his head and heart are, and if they are not on my side of the street then he knows the road back to OW and I will wish him well. And even if I believe that he is serious, there is a long, long road, and I am not even sure that I have the desire or energy to travel it at this point.
Why have you agreed to meet him, Chai?

Has he indicated via your IM that he has ended his affair and is willing to meet all the requirements you laid out in your Plan B letter? I do hope so.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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