Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by TexasSun
Ok, Plan B it is....I needed that xtra push. If I hire my attorney it is a 5k retainer or 10k if I plan on going to court. Spendy. I can borrow the money from my Dad and ask for WH to pay my legal expenses? I am a SAHM. So basically ask for sole custody and legal separation? My lawyer said this make it much easier for him to get a divorce if I initiate it. Can u do Plan B without legal separation? Also, any sample letters? Thanks.

TS, you can send him a plan B letter and in it, just tell him you expect him to continue paying the bills as before. Attach a visitation schedule and tell him if he wants more or less to just contact your intermediary. Find an IM who will be neutral. The letter to use is the one in Surviving an Affair. Read this: How to Plan B correctly

If he doesn't continue to support you, then you will want to file for divorce to get legal protection. And it is better to file for divorce because if he doesn't come around within 2 years, you can just finalize the divorce and move on.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 691
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 691
PLEASE go to plan B.


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

mehr #2538623 08/26/11 09:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
An update...Husband and I have been peacefully co-existing, moved home mid-July, a lot of SF (one of my top EN, he refused while he was with OW), family vacations, etc. NOT in recovery, yet.

I did a lengthy, very extended Plan A, (here come the 2x4's!) but I truly have a male mentality. Contact has stopped with OW. He ended affair after multiple exposures and I sent her a notarized, certified letter that stated any contact with my children will result in a civil suit (intentional and negligent emotional damage) as well as a restraining order. I can post this if needed. He has her blocked on cell etc., and I have been using VAR. So far so good.

Now....the hard part. HUGE AO's from me the last 2 days...where did this come from? The looong Plan A took it's toll. So today I gave him this list, we have been waiting until he composed his own list. Remember I had a 5 month EA via text, skype, FB just prior to his affair. Here is my list I require of him:

Relationship Needs List
� End all contact with affair FOR LIFE
-Block all avenues of communication
-Account for your time & whereabouts
-No mutual friends or contact with mutual friends
-Complete transparency with cell phone, passwords, bank accounts, FB etc.
-Total honesty to eliminate conditions that led to affair
-Compose no contact for life letter signed by our family (100% necessary)
-Take extraordinary precautions to prevent this and future affairs
-Remove all affair paraphenelia including ipod, music, truck etc. etc. etc.

THEN��
� STD test now and in future as recommended by Doctor/Health Dept.
� Doctor visit with depression screening, and health evaluation
� Move back into marital bed whether we like it or not � Accountability with family and friends
� Read �Surviving an Affair� together and discuss it
� Get-away without children to plan marriage recovery, next steps etc.
� No opposite sex texting and friendships
� FAMILY counseling that is Christian-based, weekly
� Attend church regularly as a family
� Individual and couples counseling as needed
� Limit alcohol, bars, partying. Spouse present in all these scenarios.
� Commitment to a PROGRAM of marriage recovery
-comprehensive and long-term (1+years)
-restores love and respect
-builds communication skills
-resolves conflicts and helps solve problems
-teaches us to meet each others� most important needs
-covers ALL aspects of relationship and builds a strong foundation for the future.
� Post-nuptial agreement to protect children. Affair equals loss of custody
� Support in transition to go back to school, not in real estate
� Actively and vigorously pursue relocation to a warmer climate
� I am willing to do all of the above as well if I haven�t done so already



Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Um...I'm not sure what you're looking for, TexasSun. So are you saying things are going okay for you? Do you have questions? Concerns?


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Fyi...I am not interested in being a real estate agent anymore because I know they met in a property I had listed. I reported his conduct to MLS and my Principal Broker. I will continue to help with our foreclosure business. (one of his needs is I contribute more $! I think that is valid now that both kids will be in school, but being a SAHM was the best thing I ever did! Also, I refuse to "work" until our marriage is well into recovery...it will affect spousal support if he can't agree to my terms.)


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by TexasSun
An update...Husband and I have been peacefully co-existing, moved home mid-July, a lot of SF (one of my top EN, he refused while he was with OW), family vacations, etc. NOT in recovery, yet.


Now....the hard part. HUGE AO's from me the last 2 days...where did this come from? The looong Plan A took it's toll. So today I gave him this list, we have been waiting until he composed his own list. Remember I had a 5 month EA via text, skype, FB just prior to his affair. Here is my list I require of him:


The AO's are because you feel secure enough that WH has manitained NC with the OW.

You now feel safe enough to show your WH your anger and hurt.

Normal.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Ok, thanks so much. I feel like things are going well, but now I am a crazy lady with AO's! I was calm as a cucumber (most of the time) but now I am LB'ing like crazy (2 huge fights 2 days in a row, accusations by me etc.) I am going to destroy any chance of recovery if I keep it up! Also, I am frustrated by his list to me...all about apologizing to friends and family that I have stood up to in the past (Major infidelity, poor parenting, rudeness, etc) He wants me to roll over, fine I can do that if that is some sort of EN, but I just dont think it's going to fix our marriage lol. Seems like he couldn't come up with much else. Sidenote...his family threw me in the trash during his affair, did not lift a finger to help me. They all live in our neighborhood and did not even call, meanwhile our friends and other neighbors rallied around me. They are sooo cold!


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Hi texassun, I would strongly suggest you stop messing around and start seriously using this program before it is too late. But I first want to applaud you for busting up the affair!!! You go, girl!!

Get your marriage affair proofed and DIVE into the MB program now. The best thing you can do is a) stop love busting and b) start spending 20 hours per week meeting the top 4 intimate ENs of conversation, affection, sex, rec companionship. Sit down and schedule that today and start doing it.

Do you have the book SAA? If not, get that book and also get the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love and start doing this program. You can't afford to wait on that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by TexasSun
Also, I am frustrated by his list to me...all about apologizing to friends and family that I have stood up to in the past (Major infidelity, poor parenting, rudeness, etc) He wants me to roll over, fine I can do that if that is some sort of EN, but I just dont think it's going to fix our marriage lol.

This has nothing to do with recovering your marriage. It is NOT an "EN" to force you to apologize to someone, that is a SELFISH DEMAND. TS, this program is not about trading lists of selfish demands. The only thing you are in a position to demand is an end to his affair and measures to affair proof your marriage. Please familiarize yourself with the program.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Thank you Melody Lane, my goal is to enroll in the MB online program. Unfortunately he thinks MB is too much, he dislikes it because of the exposure aspect. I have most of the books, HNHN (on ipod too) SAA, Love Buster, HNHN for parents, 5 steps to Romantic Love. The Harley video too. I have read them all...currently SAA is in his underwear drawer, but he hasn't read it. That is why that is on my list. I am hoping if he reads it with me and that will open the door to the online program. I have asked him to fill out a EN questionairre in the past, but not recently. (obviously it did no good to ask anything during his affair.) He IS selfish and entitled. I don't think anything on my list is a selfish demand? I just want to cover all the bases. Also, he will not discuss our lists initially without a 3rd party present, another of his requirements. A referee (another couple) to say what is reasonable on our lists etc. I feel they will think my terms are harsh but necessary. As for the AO's...I think it happened to coincide with my monthly cycle, I am typically more emotional for a couple days and combined with the anger I felt it was crazy roller coaster. Today should be better.


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Please believe me there is nothing I want more than to begin the program. He will not lift a finger to work on the marriage until these lists are addressed. He has only ended the affair, moved home, spent a lot of family time and 2 vacations. Will not do one on one time except for a lot of SF, which I am thrilled about. When I wrote my list...a program of marriage recovery it is MB I am referring to. The counseling as needed would be him with Steve, but I don't if he will agree to any of it. I can't do it by myself....


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
He is not in a position to negotiate the recovery of the marriage.
I know you love having him home and having the affair over but you do not have to settle for this.
You call Steve and see what he says for you to do.

Even email the radio show for direction.

It can not be the same ole, same ole marriage and your wayward H thinks it will be and that opens the door to more of either the same affair or a new one. In other words......misery.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Melody Lane, or anyone, can you please, please go over my list (page 15 titled Relationship Needs) and tell me what to eliminate before this meeting? Is attending church as a family a selfish demand? I don't really know. I know I won't waver on the first part. Help!


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
Hi, TS,

Since you have called out for anyone to help you, I will say my 2 cents, but I am not one of the vets. Still, here goes:

The first part of your list is the very basic of what Harley advises for recovery of marriage to begin:

1.) No contact for LIFE with adultery partner. This would include cutting off all possible means and the No Contact letter signed by him and mailed by you. It needs to be handwritten by your H, so the AP knows it is coming from him voluntarily. There are examples of NC letters on this forum. They do not included apologies of any sort to the AP.

I would definitely insist on no contact with any friends of the adultery for they are not friends to the marriage.

2.) Total transparency. This would mean accounting for all time and money spent, shared passwords on everything.

3.) Restoration of romantic love: This is the part where the FWS agrees to improving the marriage to a better place than pre-A. This is where the FWS does some of the heavy lifting. (AKA Just Compensation)

4.) Create a list of Extraordinary Precautions that will apply to both of you. You had some of this listed in the 2nd list. There are lists of EPs also on this forum. Here is our list:

Eliminate all social networking sites, except for shared FB account

No communicating with a female in any other way than the necessary professional manner needed for work

No intimate conversations with a female (no conversations about anything personal, such as likes, dislikes, marriage, music, etc)

No flirting, no inappropriate conversations or jesting. No �boobs or butts� comments ever.

No porn, no �adult� clubs or shops, no chat rooms

No nights apart. I will find a way to include spouse.

No recreational activities with the opposite sex.

No interactive online games.

No business mentoring with a woman

I suggest putting away the rest of your list until after the fog completely goes away. It may be seen as quite overwhelming at the moment. Start with the very basics by first eliminating the adultery, then eliminating the possibility of recurrence. Start rebuilding an even better marriage. The rest can be added.

Oh, and yes on the STD testing. Even if he won't go, you should still go.

Do you think your H is depressed? That would need to be addressed before recovery of the marriage could begin. Once the depression is alleviated, he will be in a better mindset.


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Thank u so much Reading, I needed to hear that! It's wonderful he's home, its awesome we are having SF, but it doesn't fix anything! I feel like he would coast along indefinitely, say that he "tried" to work on marriage and then say it didn't work, at that point all our friends and family would probably have to agree with him. He would probably return to OW. I will call radio show (again ha ha) I want to demand we begin MB, but he will be too stubborn.


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
You'll probably be advised to go to plan B then.....yk?

Enjoy your SF meanwhile!







Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
C
CaliSun Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by 51CD30
Hi, TS,

Since you have called out for anyone to help you, I will say my 2 cents, but I am not one of the vets. Still, here goes:

The first part of your list is the very basic of what Harley advises for recovery of marriage to begin:

1.) No contact for LIFE with adultery partner. This would include cutting off all possible means and the No Contact letter signed by him and mailed by you. It needs to be handwritten by your H, so the AP knows it is coming from him voluntarily. There are examples of NC letters on this forum. They do not included apologies of any sort to the AP.

I would definitely insist on no contact with any friends of the adultery for they are not friends to the marriage.

2.) Total transparency. This would mean accounting for all time and money spent, shared passwords on everything.

3.) Restoration of romantic love: This is the part where the FWS agrees to improving the marriage to a better place than pre-A. This is where the FWS does some of the heavy lifting. (AKA Just Compensation)

4.) Create a list of Extraordinary Precautions that will apply to both of you. You had some of this listed in the 2nd list. There are lists of EPs also on this forum. Here is our list:

Eliminate all social networking sites, except for shared FB account

No communicating with a female in any other way than the necessary professional manner needed for work

No intimate conversations with a female (no conversations about anything personal, such as likes, dislikes, marriage, music, etc)

No flirting, no inappropriate conversations or jesting. No �boobs or butts� comments ever.

No porn, no �adult� clubs or shops, no chat rooms

No nights apart. I will find a way to include spouse.

No recreational activities with the opposite sex.

No interactive online games.

No business mentoring with a woman

I suggest putting away the rest of your list until after the fog completely goes away. It may be seen as quite overwhelming at the moment. Start with the very basics by first eliminating the adultery, then eliminating the possibility of recurrence. Start rebuilding an even better marriage. The rest can be added.

Oh, and yes on the STD testing. Even if he won't go, you should still go.

Do you think your H is depressed? That would need to be addressed before recovery of the marriage could begin. Once the depression is alleviated, he will be in a better mindset.


Thank yu soooo much, I would love to incorporate the other suggestions you made at a later time, he will think it too controlling, but it will be necessary in the future. He received my list on Friday, waiting for our mutual friends to return from a trip to mediate our "lists" He will not begin any other way. He was fine coasting along too, but I told him it was time to make changes.

Yes, I do think seasonal depression is a factor, we live in the NW. I included a doctor visit on my list, he needs a proffesional evaluation. Thanks for your insights!


Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)

He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11

Recovering MB Online!


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
And one last thing from my side of the world:

Coasting will not work. After my H's first affair, we did the coasting, too. Our marriage was "fine," but it was not protected. Several years later, H became involved with Internet porn and inappropriate chat rooms/emails with other women on the net. Again, we sort of recovered and our marriage was "fine" but again not protected. Then we had this long deployment and adultery.

I insisted that I would NEVER go through this again. NEVER. Now our marriage is protected. My H was GLAD to comply with this list, because he knows there is no room at all ever for error. Non-negotiable. This is for my protection. If he had not agreed to it, I could no longer live with him, because I would be at risk.


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
TS, you should be in Plan B if he won't commit to recovery. He is in no position to bargain.. Give him your list of extraordinary precautions and tell him you will consider forgiving him if he commits to recovery and to your list of EPs. From the sounds of, he is just using your home as a flop house with free sex and is not interested in doing what it takes to recover your marriage. You need to raise the bar, my friend.

Also, dr Harley has said unless a WH comes back on bended knee with hat in hand and willing to do whatever it takes, that you are wasting your time. And that is what you are doing, wasting your time. He either gets on board or he should be shown the door.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Also, dr Harley has said unless a WH comes back on bended knee with hat in hand and willing to do whatever it takes, that you are wasting your time. And that is what you are doing, wasting your time. He either gets on board or he should be shown the door.

Amen, amen.

Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,352 guests, and 57 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5