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For more than 20 years I thought my husband and I had been happily married and we have four beautiful children. I took precautions and also know that I had met most of his emotional needs. Few years ago in 2008, I accidentally discovered my husband had SMS flirting with a woman (let me call her AA). Although it wasn't an affair, it was a blow as I had always trusted him, he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone, overcame my sadness and forgave him. Then 6 months later in Jan 2009, I again accidentally discovered he re-contacted AA, the one he flirted previously. That was the second blow, I cried and cried, but he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone and again forgave him. We went on with life and everything seemed to be fine until March this year, my live-in-domestic-helper (let me call her CC and we have had a few domestic helps within the past 20 years) told me that she and my husband kissed and hugged. As I had been very nice to her, she felt guilty and told me about it. I confronted my husband and he admitted his wrong and asked for forgiveness. I was devastated and couldn't stop crying. To cut the story short, CC finally left, I forgave my husband, we attended a marriage weekend and he has changed since then. Our marriage has been good since then, our sex live is great, but somehow at the back of my mind, I always felt that he was hiding something. Two days ago, I told him my hunch, he initially denied and said nothing happened. I then let him read Dr. Harley's article on "Honesty and Openness" and "The Policy of Radical Honesty-Historical Honesty", he finally confessed that he had heavy patting with three previous domestic helpers and two of them he had sex with once. The last one was BB, the domestic helper replaced by CC for about 6 months. Now he told me his dark secrets, I am now completely lost. I know he really loves me, he is a good father and committed to the family. But why?

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Well, do not forgive for a while. That will come WAY down the line if things improve to a place where your marriage is healthy.

It is good that CC told you. Yay for her.
It is good that your H has shown a bit of open and honesty. That is to be welcomed by you. Encourage that to give you info about what you are dealing with and get more in the future from him.

Study Marriage Builder concepts over and over again and hire no more women to keep house.
Why? He has very, very weak boundaries with women and that is the tip of the iceberg of his problems.
It is NOT about you. You are not the problem.
Hopefully you will get more input from others here and direction to look for dealing with this.







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Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
For more than 20 years I thought my husband and I had been happily married and we have four beautiful children. I took precautions and also know that I had met most of his emotional needs. Few years ago in 2008, I accidentally discovered my husband had SMS flirting with a woman (let me call her AA). Although it wasn't an affair, it was a blow as I had always trusted him, he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone, overcame my sadness and forgave him. Then 6 months later in Jan 2009, I again accidentally discovered he re-contacted AA, the one he flirted previously. That was the second blow, I cried and cried, but he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone and again forgave him. We went on with life and everything seemed to be fine until March this year, my live-in-domestic-helper (let me call her CC and we have had a few domestic helps within the past 20 years) told me that she and my husband kissed and hugged. As I had been very nice to her, she felt guilty and told me about it. I confronted my husband and he admitted his wrong and asked for forgiveness. I was devastated and couldn't stop crying. To cut the story short, CC finally left, I forgave my husband, we attended a marriage weekend and he has changed since then. Our marriage has been good since then, our sex live is great, but somehow at the back of my mind, I always felt that he was hiding something. Two days ago, I told him my hunch, he initially denied and said nothing happened. I then let him read Dr. Harley's article on "Honesty and Openness" and "The Policy of Radical Honesty-Historical Honesty", he finally confessed that he had heavy patting with three previous domestic helpers and two of them he had sex with once. The last one was BB, the domestic helper replaced by CC for about 6 months. Now he told me his dark secrets, I am now completely lost. I know he really loves me, he is a good father and committed to the family. But why?
Welome to MB, DA.

The answer to "why" is the same for all of us; we are all capable of having affairs if we do not erect good boundaries when we are around members of the opposite sex.

For the serial cheater like your H, sloppy boundaries mean that he flirts routinely around women and takes any available opportunity to take things further. Indeed, he pushes to make things go further.

Who was AA? Was she a woman from work? If so, it looks as if your H will take any and every opportunity to get a bit on the side with an available woman. You can stop having domestic servants in the home, but you cannot cut off all his contact from all women. Do you want to go forward in marriage with a man like that? He can change, but he needs to practice Extraordinary Precautions with every waking moment. How will you know if he really does this?

I'm sorry to say that I don't think you have been told the full truth about the extent of his affairs. In your position, I wouldn't be prepared to go forward unless I knew the whole truth. I would schedule a polygraph for him and make sure he goes through with it.

You can read more about polygraphs in our forum Operation Investigate.


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His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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ITA - schedule that poly. He more than likely has given you the bare minimum of his activities with other women.

Forgiveness should follow remorseful actions, Devastated. You forgave, but neither of you changed the conditions that led to these affairs in the first place. Must you have a single woman living in your home? That's the perfect set-up for a cheater!

Your WH has done nothing to earn your forgiveness. You had no standards set for allowing him to remain in the marriage, so he lived up to none.

Do you want to remain in this marriage? I would suggest you get the book "Surviving an Affair" - you can get it on this site (click on the Bookstore link) or on online bookstores.

I would also suggest that both of you get tested for STDs as soon as possible. I suspect he's had much more sex than you know. Who knows what cooties even ONE of those women was carrying? frown


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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DA, welcome to Marriage Builders. I agree with Sugarcane that there are probably others. I would set up a polygraph test for him and 2 days before give him a list of questions. Give him one last chance to come clean before the polygraph.

I would find out who AA is and expose that affair. Is she married?

In general, the conditions that led to the affairs has to change. No more female domestic help [or maybe hire elderly grandmothers] and no friends of the opposite sex. He should give you passwords to all of his cell phone and email accounts and pledge to never spend the night apart again. Taking those steps will make it harder for him to carry on the secret second life necessary to conduct an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.

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Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.
Please don't leave us, DA. I am very worried about you.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Denial mode.
A super fun place to be. Where we believe our honeys and know they are our partner and team mate.
Alas.......the secret second life of a wayward is a complex and fairly scary thing to explore.

Stay with us here and let us help you avoid some common and timewasting actions or nonactions.

K?







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Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.
DA, what questions do you plan to have him answer on the poly?

Why do I get the feeling that you have NO intention of having him take the poly? Why do I have the feeling that you're going to smooth over his indiscretions because it will require effort and conflict to do otherwise? Why do I get the feeling that you wish you'd never posted here?

Do you want to save your marriage, or not??


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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DA, I totally agree with the rest. I was gaslighted FOR TWO YEARS. I believed my POS stbxH was NC with OW. I wanted to believe this so badly.

Like you, I told no one of my sitch for TWO YEARS. No exposure, nothing, b/c I "believed" it was a ONS.

I broke every MB "rule" for breaking up affairs and you can see the outcome in my sig line.

If you want to save your M, you MUST follow the steps here. I truly believe you are not being given the whole truth...imho...



Me: BS age 35
POS-eX-the SORRIEST, CRUELEST, LOWLY WAYWARD SCUMBAG out there
Married 14.5 years, together almost 16
DDay: 7-5-09
OC born: 7-23-09
no COM: tried 6 years frown
D filed 5/05/2011
D final 11/10/11
I was gaslighted for 2 years.

"You were not built for a safe story. Take risks and feel what it is like to actually be brave. It's worth it." Carlos Whittaker
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I am completely confused, I called the domestic help whom he said he had kissed and sex with, she said NO. Now I don't know whom I am going to belive...

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I checked online and there isn't much available in Singapore, I am going crazy, I don't want to continue anymore

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Only police has polygraph test, but it's rarely available here

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When my wife confessed the number of times she had sex during her first A, I called the OM to verify. He said she was crazy and they only did it once. Denial is a crazy thing.

Singapore, right? I bet they'd take a little extra money for a poly at the police station...


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CV, no, the police wouldn't do that, not in Singapore. At the time of writing the first post, I still believed my H told me the truth but the rest of you didn't think so, and you were right. Guessed I was too blind. I was too upset to go to work, so I took a day off, that was when I called BB, the domestic help, whom I had treated very nicely during her employment with us. Then she said nothing happened. It drove me crazy, I was confused and angry. Everybody was lying to me! I got so upset that after talking to her I text my H, scolded him B-----d! He replied "What Now? Why can't we move on?" I cried non-stop at home, was hoping that he would come back, but he didn't. He called but I didn't pick up the phone, half an hour later, he text me whether I wanted him to come home, I didn't reply him as I made up my mind already. He still didn't admit, I was ready to walk out the marriage, it was too much to bear. I took my credit card, passport, a notebook which I could book a ticket online and left the house. I text him that there was no need for him to come back as I already left home. I also let him know that I talked to BB and contacted the other domestic help. I was still confused and didn't know who lied to me, my H or BB. I scolded my H that he was a perpetual liar and a serial cheater. I told him I would not trust him anymore.

I went into a metro, just sat there trying to clear my mind. I text him there was no point to continue and turned off my phone after that. When I turned on the phone again, he was calling me, but I cut it off. He was begging me to go home to talk about that, so I gave him an ultimatum, "Only complete honesty can gain back my trust. If you are willing to come clean with all the women involved in the past, who they were and how long the affair lasted, then I am willing to talk." He didn't reply for a long time, I told myself, that's it, I lost my battle. Yet, I made up my mind that I would not go back until he agreed, there was no compromise, I was determined not to be hurt by him anymore.

I was heading to the airport when my H replied ok. I reached home about an hour later and was no longer the forgiving, loving wife. He then passed me a note and said he was too ashamed to tell in front of me. All of you were right! He had more than he admitted the day before. Apart from the two domestic helps he had sex with, he also had sex twice with AA (who was another domestic help) in her employer's residence! Despicable! Disgusting! Shameless! He had two more one-night-stand while he was on attachment in Thailand. I asked why why? What have I done that he had to have all these extramarital sex? Did I not satisfy him? Did I fall short of anything? BTW, I am not old and ugly, I always maintain myself so that my H will be proud of me when we go out together. He couldn't find a reason to blame me. He said none of the sex involved love. My H begged me and told me that it was all in the past. After the last incident with CC, he is closer to God now and memorizes Bible verses to remind himself not to fall into temptations. He has made a commitment to God that he will not cheat again. He has also agreed that he would be very guarded and draw clear boundaries. No time alone with women, meet my most important emotional needs, i.e. Honesty and Openness. In order not to put himself in a temptation again, he has also agreed not to have any domestic help after the present contract expires, our current domestic help is like an old grandma. Sorry for being so long-winded, I need to explain everything before I could ask the following questions:

1. Can someone have sex with another person without love?
2. Can I trust him that he had told me all his past sexual encounters?
3. Finally, shall I give him another chance?

Thank you for taking time to read and reply.

Last edited by Devastated_Again; 09/05/11 07:16 AM.
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1. yes
2. no
3. maybe


me, DH
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DA,

First of all give yourself some time to think this through and set up some safety nets for you........
I think your husband's openness about his sexual activities is a good thing, it does show he is trying to be a better man now, it all starts with the honesty and openness if he and you can consider rebuilding your marriage, I know it is hard to hear it, and you have to tell him you have to have it all that any trickle truth later down the road will set you back..........
After you have everything and you are sure there isn't any more contact with any of them then you can take a bit of time and think it through and decide if this is something you can over come..........
There are no guarantees in this world with any relationship, an old one a new one...........
If you are willing to start again that is what you must do, put the bad behind you and focus on today and tomorrow........
You are trying to make sense of something that you can't, selfishness like this does not make sense.............that is a cross he will have to bear it has nothing to do with you or anything you did.
It isn't easy but if you look at it as an opportunity to have a better marriage then it might be a worthwhile effort...........
No marriage is without some issues, financial, abuse, drugs, alcohol........if you started again with someone else they come with baggage as well.........
My advice would be to give yourself time and not rush into any decisions and when you do you do it on your terms........for your sanity and safety.........
good luck and welcome aboard, this is a great place for support ....
jessi


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
1. Can someone have sex with another person without love?
2. Can I trust him that he had told me all his past sexual encounters?
3. Finally, shall I give him another chance?

Good morning DA,

I'm not what everyone here calls a "vet" but I am a FWW and a someone who's worked very hard to turn from a lifestyle of lying...

So, can you have sex with someone without loving them? You sure can and I would venture to say that most way-wards do.

As far as the whole truth goes...for most way-wards it's become a habit to lie to their spouses, and probably to most folks around them. While your husband may have very well been truthful in what he's told you so far, it's likely that there is more that needs to be told. As the days, weeks and months go on you will likely find that you have many questions that you NEED answered. It's probably going to be difficult for your H to break the pattern of lying to you, but it can be done if he's willing to put in the effort.

Now, should you stay? Only you can answer that. If you do, it will be the hardest thing you've ever done. There is a lot to be gained and Dr. Harley's books have wonderful tools for both of you. If both of you are willing to work crazy hard and endure with each other down this exceptionally painful road, it could be a new beginning for your marriage.

I will pray for you both today.

Grace


Me...saved by grace
Him...wonderful husband
Us...3 years in to our new life and better every day!
and we have 3 great kids (20,19,17)

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Thank you Reading. He has indeed very weak boundaries with women and we are working on some rules and boundaries now. MB is God sent, without it and all of you, I wouldn't have been able to pull through; I would still believe my husband had told me all his past; I wouldn't realise I needed steps to work on the marriage. I am grateful of all your cares even though I don't know you and I am half the world away from you.

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Have you read the Basic Concepts here? If not, do that first.

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