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Originally Posted by staytogether
Sorry, T/J

BlueHeart, it is your experience that your abuse hurt more than cheating. And that is your truth and that cannot be wrong. ((((BlueHeart))) Do start your own thread.

end T/J

staytogether, of course, different victims will have different experiences, but when Dr Harley states that adultery is the "worst thing that can happen" to someone, he is making a generalization. A generalization is based on a majority of instances. In Dr Harley's professional experience, with the MAJORITY of people, adultery is the MOST PAINFUL experience. A generalization takes into account that there will be exceptions, but those exceptions do not negate the rule.

That does not negate her experience as she negated the personal experience of others [which was very offensive]

Originally Posted by blueheart
I strongly disagree with the above statement. While adultery is abusive, cruel and terrible I don't believe it is worse than physical abuse


The point of my statement was to express to a very entitled, cruel wayward, how very destructive adultery is so he would not continue to minimize and justify his behavior. Waywards need to be reminded that they are AS abusive as wife beaters and rapists so this guy has some amazing chutzpah accusing this skank's husband of "abuse." This discussion is a distraction from that goal and I hope it is not your mission to further disrupt the thread?

I understand it might be upsetting for a wayward to see themselves compared to a wife beater or a rapist, but it is a reality check they need.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by GW6
I am trying folks.

smirk

Yet your BW (betrayed wife) is still in the dark? That is the first thing you need to do...expose the affair to your wife.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by GW6
... I am committed to eliminating those "opportunities" so she can pursue the relationship she has recently developed with a divorced doctor. Someone she has told me can take care of her. ...
Hello again, GW6,

Could we go back to the question & a theme I posed in my previous post? Namely: What's your goal here? And what about your wife?

In your posts, I see more words devoted to the other woman ("OW") than to your wife. What about your wife -- the woman to whom you promised "forever"? What about her feelings; how she's doing today? How do you feel toward her right now? Most of what I'm hearing from you is about your mistress.

Your mistress wasn't some great lady. Figuratively speaking, but in a very real way, she mugged your wife. Your mistress decided that your wife didn't mean any more than the old chewing-gum stuck on the bottom of a shoe. As far as your marriage was concerned, OW was a thug -- just as you've been to her marriage. Ever heard it said that there's no honor among thieves? Why honor her in your thoughts & motivations?

You're supposed to be honoring your wife. When did your wife stop counting? Isn't it time you put her on the front burner? (Yes, if you're to revive your marriage, she'll need to do some things to put you on the front-burner too; but that can't be a condition for your actions.) And OW needs to be off the stove & out of the kitchen altogether. She's not your future. (About that much, at least, you're correct.)

Early-on after my affair, our marriage counselor put my wife & me onto the book "Surviving An Affair." I don't get a penny for saying so, but we learned things in there that may well have saved our marriage. Those things were not just mere facts to be learned & discussed passively, but consequent actions that we were able to take; actions that can -- indeed, must -- be taken by you in order to give you the best shot at having the kind of marriage you wanted, back when you & she were starting out & today was way off in your hazy future and you never imagined you'd have deceived her the way you've been doing lately.

That is, if that kind of marriage is your goal. I still don't know what you feel about your marriage & about the other person in it. Would you care to elaborate?

A parting word of advice for this evening: You might want to think about dropping your "nobility complex." You're not doing some worthy deed by stepping out & letting this "damsel-in-distress" pursue her dreams -- not anymore so than when a mugger who's been beating his victim with a tire iron drops the tire iron after his victim has limped away. Stopping the affair for the sake of saving your marriage is a first step toward regaining a smidgen of nobility, someday, if you persevere and care for your spouse and work on your marriage and make it better. That will take time. But you can't cast a veneer of immediate nobility upon ending the affair simply or primarily out of consideration for freeing your fellow marriage-mugger, your partner-in-crime, to pursue her latest romantic dreams. "Noble" is not being a thug or a jerk in the first place. Simply ceasing to be a thug or jerk doesn't qualify us for nobility. As my father says, "You can rub & rub, but you can't lay a shine on a turd."

Marital recovery is hard work! If your main motivation is out of consideration for your mistress, you ain't gonna make it, and you'll cause your wife lots more added grief in the process.

So, what is your goal, GW6? And what is your motivation? Those aren't merely rhetorical questions -- I'm interested in your answers here.



Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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That does not negate her experience as she negated the personal experience of others [which was very offensive]

Originally Posted by blueheart
I strongly disagree with the above statement. While adultery is abusive, cruel and terrible I don't believe it is worse than physical abuse

I am sorry but I do not see how I negated the personal experience of others or how I could have offended anyone with MY opinion. I said that I, me personally, do not believe adultery is WORSE than physical abuse based on my experience with the both of them. I believe I also stated that that my opinion was not meant to minimize others feelings but to express a different perspective, that is all. I also said (which is in the quote you used of mine) that adultery is cruel, terrible, abusive, etc. Again, I was just stating MY personal opinion and thoughts. I am sorry to have disrupted this thread yet again but wanted to address the above statement.

Also, I would like to add that I appreciate that others' opinions and personal experiences differ from mine. However, I feel like I was somewhat attacked for having a different view. MelodyLane your first post to me was dripping with disdain because I happened to be the exception to Dr Harley's findings. Even saying that I was offensive by stating my opinion. I find this attitude to be very off-putting which is precisely why I have never posted here before yesterday. I will happily go back to lurking and stay off the boards.

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Blueheart, yes, please start your own thread , I would like to post to you. Having been a BW and abused wife, I understand and feel the same as you. (((blueheart)))

AW


Me, BS Him, Alcoholic, FWH H did 180 in '01 Recovered, blessed marriage now Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen. Hebrews 11:1
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Originally Posted by blueheart
Also, I would like to add that I appreciate that others' opinions and personal experiences differ from mine. However, I feel like I was somewhat attacked for having a different view.


blueheart, all you are saying here is that it ok for you to disagree with others but not ok for them to disagree with you. Sorry, that is not how it works. After all, you signed up for the sole purpose of disrupting a thread by disputing a generalization made quite often by Dr Harley. crazy [a generalization, of course, takes into account that not ALL experiences will apply] I find that very offensive, especially on a thread where we are trying to help this man save his marriage.

Would it be ok if we got back to helping this man?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Let's stop the disruption and get back to helping this poster. If you can help this poster with Marriage Builders, please do. Otherwise refrain from posting. Don't disrupt this thread any more.


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Originally Posted by GW6
I know it will be difficult and painful to begin the healing process with my wife but it will be worth it.


It will be more difficult and painful not to do it.

Tell your wife. Step one.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Been a couple of weeks since I first posted. Wife and I are both in coaching/counseling with Steve. Mainly private sessions for each of us so far but just completed the full blown Emotional Needs and Love Busters Questionaires. What an eye opener for me. I'm beginning to come out of the fog! For the first time in a long time I realized that my answers to the qurstionaires would have been a lot different for the OW! Reviewing the 6 lover busters, I could only seriously think of 1 that was an issue fir my wife and I. However I attempted to answer the questionnaire as idle me and the OW were married. What a difference in my answers. There would definitely be several love bustv�ers that would create serious problem for us. Beginning to exit the fog!! Thanks to all that haven given healthy advice.

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As a BW, I am a little saddened for your BW that you even thought about filling out the LB one with OW in mind.

I am glad however, that you have seen that DrH is right, and WS's affair DOWN. Your wife is and always was so much better than OW. It was only your fogginess from an addiction to OW that caused you to believe otherwise. That is a good thing.

Now, get on with recovery.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

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Originally Posted by GW6
Reviewing the 6 lover busters, I could only seriously think of 1 that was an issue fir my wife and I.

Seriously?

(Remember, I'm a FWS as well)

Let me help you;


Selfish Demands; You haven't selfishly demanded that you be allowed to have your needs met by another woman for the past 6 years? You were so selfish that the Other womans husband thinks it was just a bad marriage, when in reality his wife had been banging another man on the side,,,, and that's not selfish?? Seriously, thats not selfish? Your whole life has been nothing but selfish demands at others expenses! Seriously?

Disrespectful Judgments; You mean to tell me, you haven't considered your wife overweight and felt she lacked sexual drive.... Not to mention that it's possibly just her religious beliefs that cause her lack of sexual appetite.... Those aren't DJ's though, right? Seriously?

Angry Outbursts; Didn't ever use these to gas light your wife? To control her? To emphatically deny you were cheating, lying, deceiving, etc... Seriously??


Annoying Habits; Being distant, emotionally, physically, mentally, and spritually, because you're giving the best part of yourself to someone else every single cotton pickin day for 6 years! Ya don't think that's an annoying habit of yours,,,, just for starters! Seriously??


Independent Behavior; Huge LB of yours if you carried on for 6 years. Come on! You made every possible independent decision you could in order to protect your OW and the wonderful affair your had. Your wife was manipulated by you daily in order for you to keep up with your SECRET, SEPERATE LIFE STYLE! Seriously???


Dishonesty; 6 YEARS OF LIES! Nothing about your life has been honest for 6 YEARS.... NOTHING!!! Nothing about your marriage has been true for your wife for over 6 years.... Seriously!!!!


YOU have been a walking, talking, Love Buster for six, stinking, years.

The reason you only see ONE?? Your life of deception has become normal to you..... You are still deep in the fog,,,, keep walking, there is a light at the end of the tunnel...


I hope the fog continues to clear and that you continue to coach with Steve.

I'm just wondering though, why is your wife still interested in keeping you around?? Do you know why?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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HerPapaBear,
You completely didn't understand my post. When I completed the LB questionnaire it was how I viewed my SPOUSE NOT ME! I'm sure our next session with Steve will reveal her thoughts about me. Until then I have decided to stop anymore posts. Our relationship is much more complicated than the few comments I previously posted. **edit** Sorry if I touched a nerve. From now on I'll leave the coaching and counseling to Steve and not this forum.
Adios

Last edited by MBLBanker; 10/17/11 03:51 AM. Reason: TOS: disrespectful and disruptive
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GW, did HPB hit a nerve?

Since you will allow SH to continue the coaching(which is a VERY good idea), what I would LOVE to happen is that you tell SH that when you filled out the LB questionnaire that you also filled one out for OW. Let him know that so he can help you STOP thinking about OW.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted by GW6
HerPapaBear,
You completely didn't understand my post. When I completed the LB questionnaire it was how I viewed my SPOUSE NOT ME! I'm sure our next session with Steve will reveal her thoughts about me. Until then I have decided to stop anymore posts. Our relationship is much more complicated than the few comments I previously posted. **edit** Sorry if I touched a nerve. From now on I'll leave the coaching and counseling to Steve and not this forum.
Adios

GW,

I've been following your posts but haven't posted. I think what everyone here is baffled about is why in the world you would fill out an ENQ for your mistress. One of the worst things you can do in recovery is compare yourself or W to the AP.


CV


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
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CV, I wasn't baffled, I am APPALLED. I do believe that SH could help GW through that, if he is honest with SH.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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I don't see the reason for all the bashing. Many a time people will take a test not to compare but to confirm what they are thinking.

In this case to confirm that the OW was not all that he thought she was.

Poster is working with Steve, and it appears it is not enough for some people.

Better to use a 2x4 instead of a log.

It appears many skip the log and go straigt to swinging the whole Log Cabin with stone fireplace and chimeny.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
It appears many skip the log and go straigt to swinging the whole Log Cabin with stone fireplace and chimeny.

Road, It's kinda like the Wizard Of Oz, a house dropping on the wicked witch ain't such a bad idea from time to time..... I had more than a few land on me yanno! smile

G, I wish you well! FWIW, You didn't hit a nerve on my end..... But I think I hit more than one with you or you wouldn't be so quick to run.

So G, from your own analysis, of your own lovebusters, in your opinion, was I right or wrong?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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GW6, did you confess the on-going nature of the affair, or have you led her and Steve to believe the affair was over 5 years ago? When you originally posted, we advised you to confess to your BW that the affair never ended. Did you do so?


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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For all the bashers...I never said I filled out a LB questionare on the OW. Road understood what I was saying. As I was completing it on my wife, I was thinking how different the answers would have been had I continued the A. It made me realize the OW was not everything I thought at one time. It confirmed what I finally began to realize. Have had NC with OW for several months. Yes SH knows as well as W. Nope...sorry to disappoint all, u did not hit a nerve with me, just feel my W and I will get more out of sessions with SH than from this Forum. If it make u feel better to bash me with a 2x4 then ok...OUCH! move on to someone else.

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Originally Posted by GW6
For all the bashers...

Isn't this a little overly dramatic? I read through this thread and see no "bashing." I see some very thoughtful, helpful posts. You are not a victim, hun...

dramaqueen


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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