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Throw a brick at me if you want, but I dont think they have a moral compass or conscience, I know i didnt. I didnt think about us, about my children about anything but me, and i dont think my ww is thinking about anyone but her right now....

now my buddy the serial cheater, thinks about what he is doing, i believe, and brick me for it if you want, he needs, i mean needs psychotherapy seriously......he knows the consequences.... and is very involved in making the right deceisions.....i just feel there is something missing.

let them fly....just my thoughts


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
Almost done
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Back again on this one. NO my xwh was not the predator, but could easily fall victim and did two times to ow who WERE serial ow.

But he fell victim and IS a serial cheater because he wants that high. He wanted that constant high. He wanted somebody to giggle that sparkling new giggle when he'd recycle those old stories of glory days gone by. He wanted the trill of somebody new, somebody with a different body. Someone he didn't know. Somebody he didn't have to pay bills with, deliver a baby with, or watch a childbirth with. Somebody who would hero worship him constantly, new enough to KEEP HIM ON a pedastal.

That is what it is about for them. The addiction, the high, and the admiration. All intertwined. Fwiw, my xwh did not find his ow at work, but out and about. So the whole world would be a cheating hotspot for him.

So my xwh is and was NOT the predator seeking out the ow. He was weak with his boundaries and his unattainable lust for admiration and attention MADE him a target for predatory ow seeking a rich sugar daddy with looks.

He was part of a lethal affair equation. Something like this:
Need for constant 24/7/365 admiration + predatory gold digger ow + opportunity (could have been 30 minutes or a short while even with him) = an affair.

But to also add, YES MY XWH WAS AND IS A NARCISSIST of the highest order.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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After his last affair, he married the wistress.

Began cheating on her almost immediately. FOUR and possibly more documented affairs on her, in a 5.5 year affairage.

Once she was no longer new, and a mommy with whom he had a very young child who NEEDED ATTENTION TOO, and a woman with whom he had to pay bills with, live life with, she lost all her appeal to him far more quickly than I did.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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peachy:{But he fell victim and IS a serial cheater because he wants that high. He wanted that constant high. He wanted somebody to giggle that sparkling new giggle when he'd recycle those old stories of glory days gone by. He wanted the trill of somebody new, somebody with a different body. Someone he didn't know. Somebody he didn't have to pay bills with, deliver a baby with, or watch a childbirth with. Somebody who would hero worship him constantly, new enough to KEEP HIM ON a pedastal.} (Iforgot how to do that quote thing already!)

peachy, you said it exactly as I would. My serial FWH did not go looking for an A, but he put himself in all the right places. He traveled alot and hung out in bars with all the other guys he traveled with. 99% of them would get drunk and meet women (even had women on call to meet them). My FWH LOVED the admiration/being the center of attention and being told what a "cool/glamorous" job he had and (they thought) he made lots of money. Most of them were divorced looking for a husband and they did'nt care who they destroyed while getting it. (bar whores)

When FWH would get bored with one, it's on to the next.

I'm not sure which is more difficult to recover from, serial or one-time "soul mates". I don't think one may be easier to recover from, just a differnt type of pain.

I think either one, it's what/how the stich is dealt with. My FWH wrote a NC letter/email to all (I made him list all OW, even those he only talked to) And that was the end of it. There was one break of NC when a OW mailed him a "I miss you letter" to his work (before MB) and he did'nt tell me. After I found out, the hammer came down HARD!!

We have EXTREMELY strict boundries and he has followed them to the "T"

He knows if he EVER messes up again there are NO more chances.

I don't think he was ever really attached to any of the OW. He told all of them he would never leave me. Withdrawl for him was mild if that... I mean which one would you withdrawl from?








BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
Lgtex1 #2546196 09/21/11 04:13 PM
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I'm beginning to see that the only common denominator in each of our situations is adultery. There don't seem to be any absolutes. The basis is the same, circumstances are different.
It's always painful and it always breaks a heart.

As I was considering the the very same questions so many of us have, I also consider how many WWards really even know what adultery is. I know of a couple at my former church who left their spouses, moved in together, are now engaged and she is questioning whether or not what they are doing is actually considered adultery - after all, they were both unhappy in their marriages and deserve to be happy. WE can see this clearly, but to someone who is rationalizing because they are in it and want so bad to be right, may not even know and that is why they could've crossed over that line to begin with. After my WH first A, I actually had to educate him about adultery and what it really was and why God dedicated an entire commandment to it. I thought that was clear to him when he had his EA with someone else. Had to educate there too.

The more I see and the more I learn, there aren't too many out there, unless they have been touched by this themselves, who can really take a black or white stand on adultery. Maybe this is why adultery is so stinkin' common>

Last edited by seeingclearly; 09/21/11 04:15 PM.

me: bw, 50
he: wh, 51

m: 1990
sep: 2007

dd: 18
ds: 14
dd: 11

multiple affairs: two with past gf's, one email dalliance.
Too many d-days to count. First one 2/06. After all this time, it's still my fault.

I've had enough. Divorce in progress.
Lgtex1 #2546198 09/21/11 04:15 PM
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I remember one time my WXW and I were watching TV and they were talking about Tiger Woods.

WXW said, "I can't believe he would do this to his family."

It was almost surreal to hear her say it.

Is it worse to have sex with multiple partners and not fall in love to than to actually fall in love with some OP?

Hard to say what's more destructive. In the public eye, the sexual addiction probably makes for better news.

But as far as recovering a marriage, it would be my guess that they are both equally DIFFICULT to overcome.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
I remember one time my WXW and I were watching TV and they were talking about Tiger Woods.

WXW said, "I can't believe he would do this to his family."

Ahhh... yes, there have been many things come out of my FWH mouth, while in the fog, that have made me say...WTbleep!!??


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Thanks for this thread CV.

I often wondered which category my H was on with he had his two overlapping affairs. He said that it was very dark for him during that time and he was very guilty and wanted to end it several times but both OW#1 & OW#2 threatened to tell me the truth and he was stuck. I don't understand why he kept on eating his own vomit.

I don't think I would consider with a serial cheater but someone who had multiple affairs. I know both women were predators and cast their nets wide and would do anyone that is willing. He treated them like dirt. But the women gave them the admiration that he had been craving for.

I had a very hard time dealing with his multiple affairs. But God is always good and we are recovering slowly. Sometimes, I don't want to work on it and my Taker pokes his head out and wants to give up and start new but I now have a H who is willing to work hard on recovery but even then my taker thinks he's not doing enough on his end for our recovery.

I do have a friend that is a serial cheater. I think if you look up serial cheater in the dictionary that her face would be on it. She is one of the most beautiful people I know but she is also the most lost person I know. This would be her signature line if she was here (hope you can follow):

WW-34
XBH#1-40?
OM#1
OM#2/currently BH#2/affairage-38
OM#3
OM#4
OW#1
DS-14
OCDS-12 (from OM#1). Lied to XH that this child was his until son was almost 3 years old.
DD-10
OCDS-8 (from OM#2)
Heard from XH#1 that she is now pregnant with from OM#3. Lying to OM#2/BH#2 that this child is his!

I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?




Me: BS/FWW - 38
BH/FWH - 36
Married 13 years, together 17 years
Two boys: 9 & 12
OW#1 DDay: PA Nov 26, 2009 (July 2008-July 2009)
OW#2 DDay: PA Nov 29, 2009 (May 2009-Sept 2009)

Me: EA/PA (RA?) June 2010-Sept 2010
His DDay: Oct 2010
SusieQ #2546205 09/21/11 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

My STBxWH (currently on affair #4 which he started shortly after I went into Plan B) is a serial cheater.

I spoke to Dr Harley about this and he DID say that STBxWH has low self-esteem and that it plays a role in his going after women ~ that a good M (with ENs being met) isn't enough for him and he needs the extra boost/thrill to feel good.

OK, so low self esteem may be a chief motivator for many or most. This was OM#2 for me. Found out after the A was over that he was (on top of everything else) a swinger.

At the same time he said he doesn't recommend looking at how to solve those types of childhood/underlying issues when trying to recover.

right. I remember this from HNHN. Not sure if I'm looking to solve a problem so much as being able to identify it. I hear phrases like "serial cheater" and "sex addict" a lot, and wonder how much is truly that or just plain stupidity. (or both!)

How are you doing BTW? You've been on Grace and my winds the past few months. Are you holding up ok?


Celtic Voyager
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3 young adult children


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Originally Posted by seeingclearly
As I was considering the the very same questions so many of us have, I also consider how many WWards really even know what adultery is. I know of a couple at my former church who left their spouses, moved in together, are now engaged and she is questioning whether or not what they are doing is actually considered adultery - after all, they were both unhappy in their marriages and deserve to be happy. WE can see this clearly, but to someone who is rationalizing because they are in it and want so bad to be right, may not even know and that is why they could've crossed over that line to begin with. After my WH first A, I actually had to educate him about adultery and what it really was and why God dedicated an entire commandment to it. I thought that was clear to him when he had his EA with someone else. Had to educate there too.

I remember feeling like I had to "teach" FWH what it was he actually did. The "huge-ness" of it all. He only thought of himself, never of our kids or me or our extended family.

I remember soon after D-day saying "our marriage will never be the same" FWH says..."why not?" think He wanted us to immediately go back to pre-A and it would all disappear.

Now, we both are glad our marriage is not like pre-A. To bad we just had to take this road to get there.


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Hmmmmm...I don't I agree that the serial cheater has to be a predator or initiator. The As can start as "innocently" as other As. I don't even think my stbx is a narcissist. Not a one size fits all IMO.

Black Raven,

Thanks for this. I'm willing to be wrong. I am trying to look more at the general picture. Is there a common thread(s) with serial cheaters. It is hard because the WW of all stripes all share so many common traits.


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Originally Posted by L2010NM
I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

Just wanted to point out that she is not a "friend." She is your enemy. She is the kind of "friend" who would throw you an anchor while you were drowning. No, she was a partner in crime, not a friend. No "friend" helps a friend be bad. A true friend cares enough to stop you from degrading yourself. A caring friend would not stand for that. Losing her was no loss at all.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by L2010NM
I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

Just wanted to point out that she is not a "friend." She is your enemy. She is the kind of "friend" who would throw you an anchor while you were drowning. No, she was a partner in crime, not a friend. No "friend" helps a friend be bad. A true friend cares enough to stop you from degrading yourself. A caring friend would not stand for that. Losing her was no loss at all.


A true friend will tell you when you've got your head up your butt.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
TTFG #2546221 09/21/11 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tryingtofeelgood
Throw a brick at me if you want, but I dont think they have a moral compass or conscience, I know i didnt. I didnt think about us, about my children about anything but me, and i dont think my ww is thinking about anyone but her right now....

I think there is a moral compass in their brain, its just twisted to fit their situation.

I remember (soon after D-day) my FWH would not use my moms handicap permit to run in the grocery store to get some milk. He say's... "but that's against the law!" think Hmm.... But ADULTRY is OK???? I just had to say something to him, I don't remember what he did about the parking...I couldn't see straight!


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by L2010NM
Thanks for this thread CV.

I often wondered which category my H was on with he had his two overlapping affairs. He said that it was very dark for him during that time and he was very guilty and wanted to end it several times but both OW#1 & OW#2 threatened to tell me the truth and he was stuck. I don't understand why he kept on eating his own vomit.

My FWW had 2, but I would not classify her as a serial cheater.

I don't think I would consider with a serial cheater but someone who had multiple affairs. I know both women were predators and cast their nets wide and would do anyone that is willing. He treated them like dirt. But the women gave them the admiration that he had been craving for.

I had a very hard time dealing with his multiple affairs. But God is always good and we are recovering slowly. Sometimes, I don't want to work on it and my Taker pokes his head out and wants to give up and start new but I now have a H who is willing to work hard on recovery but even then my taker thinks he's not doing enough on his end for our recovery.

boy can I relate! lol. I have a strong taker side to me and constantly have to check it.

I do have a friend that is a serial cheater. I think if you look up serial cheater in the dictionary that her face would be on it. She is one of the most beautiful people I know but she is also the most lost person I know. This would be her signature line if she was here (hope you can follow):

WW-34
XBH#1-40?
OM#1
OM#2/currently BH#2/affairage-38
OM#3
OM#4
OW#1
DS-14
OCDS-12 (from OM#1). Lied to XH that this child was his until son was almost 3 years old.
DD-10
OCDS-8 (from OM#2)
Heard from XH#1 that she is now pregnant with from OM#3. Lying to OM#2/BH#2 that this child is his!

I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

See, I think it is harder for them to recover, but the only people I say there is no hope for are pedophiles.

cv


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
Lgtex1 #2546229 09/21/11 05:40 PM
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Well serial adultery is, IMHO, a need to be admired and a need to have the romantic love "high", and a desire for "newness" in their life, and like all A's, the double life secrecy is exciting!

The morale compass is definitely off, strange that my FWH can go for years going to church etc., then he will, when convenient, not believe anymore. As to the question why or how can they do this to a spouse multiple times? Because they are only thinking of themselves of course, they rationalize, rewrite history, etc.. FWH I believe has had multiple affairs and the last one was a LT affair. The LT was the worst to get over. The length of time of the deceipt and the amount of the deceipt crippled me. I can't say that I have yet fully gotten over it. When an A goes on for so long, I have trouble believing that FWH is here for the "right' reasons. Trust issues I guess are something that will take as long the A went on I read somewhere **edit**

ba

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Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
NC e-mail - 11/04- it wasn't real
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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
...My FWW had two affairs. there was 6, almost 7 years between them. Was not the pursuer for either. ...
t/j here, but this bolded phrase bothers me.

I admit, I've trotted something similar out here from time to time (along lines of "my OW made the first move"). However, at the core, I do see it as somewhat of an evasion of responsibility. Sort of like Adam's "Yo, God, this woman you sent here, she handed me this here fruit, even though you told me not to eat it." [Forgive my paraphrasing of Scripture. What's Hebrew for "Yo"?]

Bearing in mind that we WSs decided to continue the conversations, decided to go out alone with them for coffee, decided to take the pursuers' phone calls, decided to stay on the line, decided to let them into our cars, decided to accompany them to the hotels... the shade less degree of culpability we might or might not bear is most probably too insignificant to bear too much mentioning. I hope Grace flags you on that once in awhile. It's one of the smaller gifts a FWS can give his/her spouse.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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amen!

My FWH, early on, would say "I didnt want to have an A....did'nt pursue it.. OW called me...."

Our counselor then said, "well, you werent acting married either" So, you are just as much at fault


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
...My FWW had two affairs. there was 6, almost 7 years between them. Was not the pursuer for either. ...
t/j here, but this bolded phrase bothers me.

I admit, I've trotted something similar out here from time to time (along lines of "my OW made the first move"). However, at the core, I do see it as somewhat of an evasion of responsibility. Sort of like Adam's "Yo, God, this woman you sent here, she handed me this here fruit, even though you told me not to eat it." [Forgive my paraphrasing of Scripture. What's Hebrew for "Yo"?]

Bearing in mind that we WSs decided to continue the conversations, decided to go out alone with them for coffee, decided to take the pursuers' phone calls, decided to stay on the line, decided to let them into our cars, decided to accompany them to the hotels... the shade less degree of culpability we might or might not bear is most probably too insignificant to bear too much mentioning. I hope Grace flags you on that once in awhile. It's one of the smaller gifts a FWS can give his/her spouse.

Hi GO,

Not trying to evade any responsibility. Far be it from that. There is plenty of guilt to go around and she has more than her share.

nabat (in the hiphil) would be the closest in Hebrew. smile

She does.Oh she does.




Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
Lgtex1 #2546294 09/21/11 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lgtex1
My FWH, early on, would say "I didnt want to have an A....did'nt pursue it.. OW called me...."Ou
\

Yeah, I love this defense. My WH's variation on it was "I wasn't looking for this. She came on to me and. . .suddenly. . .everything
. . .EXPLODED!

I couldn't tell if he meant he had a premature ejaculation or if a
random missile came hurtling through the clouds and struck them.


Me: BW,56
Him: WH,57
DD#1 25 yrs ago
DD#2 7 yrs ago
DD#3 May 12
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