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TheRoad #2533129 08/04/11 09:42 AM
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RFA

FWIW I think you did good! I remember that feeling of fear, of wondering what if and when....

I got strong for me, it sounds like thats exactly what you did for you.

My plonker knows that I will walk, can walk and will be fine if he is in contact with Ginge again. Of course he could well be, the big hole in the workplace, but it's entirely his choice.

On this issue he knows what the consequences are and that I will follow through.

Stay well, stay strong and smile a little as it's clear that your WH is beginning to wonder just what is happening, no more needy RFA, suddenly a strong RFA, it's knocked his world a little.

Enjoy the attention, tell him he has nothing to worry about provided he is keeping his side of the fence clean, then offer him that cookie!!

Blessings


Me 50
WH 52
WH in A 6 yrs in total, last 5 yrs JGF (Not!)
DD final 1.12.10
NC letter sent 3.12.10

Working at being the best I can be, the rest is up to you.

He is still a plonker, but he is my plonker!
TheRoad #2546444 09/22/11 10:47 AM
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Its been awhile since I posted and I am really happy to be able to say that my anxiety level has stayed down and that my H has adjusted to it and no longer seems to fear that it is a sign that I am going to leave the M.

It is still a rollercoaster, some days I feel great and other days I dont .think I can stand to look at him one more minute, but I am working at overcoming my fears and pride and allowing myself to be vulnerable enough to let him help me through the tough days. Honestly at this point its less about fear and more about the pride. I really took his fogbabble to heart and have been struggling with the idea of being with someone who sees me in such a negative way. I think this last week has been better though, he has really opened up to me about his addictions and how they serve as a cover for his pain, and the justifications he has given himself over the years. None of it was specific A talk, most of it was about his teen years and when he first started using, about his history from before we met. It did give me a better understanding of him and his life and a real picture that I am not any different than anyone else he has hurt when he was chasing that high.

Whatever bad thoughts he used to demonize me when he was hurting me simply dont matter, its a symptom of his brokeness. I feel sorry for him for the first time, and what he needed to do to feel good about himself. I wont ever go back there, but I feel like I can look at it differently now.

What I have NOW is a man who loves me and values me and our family. Whatever there was before is gone and never had very much to do with me anyway. And we are both learning to be better and stronger than we used to be.

Not much point to this, just kind of rambling since I feel like things are improving. I have overcome almost all of my SF triggers, and it seems like there are just a lot of things that are better even on the bad days.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2552799 10/13/11 02:12 PM
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I've got a couple of questions about things that have happened in the last few days that I am not sure how to handle.

First thing is that we went over our LB and EN's questionaires again last night because we just were not feeling as happy lately (trigger management and stuff from the past has really improved but some of the present stuff seemed to be slipping).

Under the Annoying Habits question H has added a new habit since the last time we did the questionaire. He says that me and the kids having a routine annoys him. He doesnt like routines and it bothers him when he is home that we have a basic idea of what is going to happen and at approximately what time.

I am not sure what to say about this, we have a 6 year old and a one and a half year old and I homeschool. I feel like I cant function and get done everything that needs to be done if we do not have some sort of flexible schedule. I am more relaxed on weekends when H is home, but the kids know what happens at what time and they are happier and more relaxed in their usual routine. Especially DS6, he often asks for things when it is the time that we typically do it, and refuses it if it is not time yet. MY H says that its boring and he thinks things should be spontaneous.

I see a lot on the forums about how important scheduling is so that you can fit in UA and family time and everything else. I'm a little blindsided by his sudden objection and really stressed on POJA in this instance because I do not have a clue where to begin. I have been thinking since last night and dont have one idea on how to raise the kids and everything without some sort of structure. Any advice on a place to start working through this would be appreciated.

The second thing happened this morning. H called me when he got to work to give me his schedule for today, and it was kinda crazy today. It was one of those days where there wasnt really a set time frame, it was all going to depend on several factors and how things went throughout the day. He tried to explain it to me a couple of times but I really wasnt able to make much sense of what he was telling me. He asked me if it made sense, I told him honestly that it really didnt and that I felt that I had gotten more confused each time he tried to explain it to me.

He told me that it was hurtful that I did not understand him, because it made perfect sense to him and telling him that it did not make sense to me and I did not understand made him feel stupid for not being able to explain it right.

I dont know what to do about that, I dont want to hurt his feelings, but sometimes I have hard time really getting what he is saying. Is it possible for me not understanding his explanation to be a LB, and if it is what do I do about it?

I was honestly trying, and asking questions to try and clarify as well as repeating back to him what I had understood from what he said and none of that helped any.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2552848 10/13/11 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
Under the Annoying Habits question H has added a new habit since the last time we did the questionaire. He says that me and the kids having a routine annoys him. He doesnt like routines and it bothers him when he is home that we have a basic idea of what is going to happen and at approximately what time.

I'd file this under the "let's POJA an alternative" category. Probably more than the FACT of the routine is the METHOD of the routine. It's almost certainly not that you have a routine that bugs him; it's the fact the routine probably assumes his absence, and he likely had no say in what you're doing.


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MY H says that its boring and he thinks things should be spontaneous.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5066_qa.html . In particular, see the bit about the "electric fence personality". He might be stumbling against his own dislikes without realizing they are there!

Him saying your activities are boring is a DJ. Him saying *he* is bored by the routine is honesty. Important difference.


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I'm a little blindsided by his sudden objection and really stressed on POJA in this instance because I do not have a clue where to begin.

In my opinion, such a rapid shift in opinion is a HUGE red flag. It means that someone has recently exposed him to the idea that routine is "boring" and "spontaneity" is better, and he's trying on the opinion because he wants to be like that person, or have that person's favor. Who is that someone?

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I have been thinking since last night and dont have one idea on how to raise the kids and everything without some sort of structure. Any advice on a place to start working through this would be appreciated.

Yep. It's a thing we call "provisional enthusiastic agreement". Enter into negotiations with the idea that you want to change ONE thing about what it is you're doing, and you'll give it a try for about 3 months. If you like it, you keep it. If you don't, you dispense with it.

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He told me that it was hurtful that I did not understand him, because it made perfect sense to him and telling him that it did not make sense to me and I did not understand made him feel stupid for not being able to explain it right.

It's all in how you say it, and in how he says it. He shouldn't be saying what you say is "hurtful", as that implies your INTENTION to hurt him. What he should say is that when you don't understand him, he is hurt. That's a totally different thing than saying something is "hurtful".

Ditto for you. You should express your confusion by asking if he can restate himself and if you can say what he just said in your own words. If he resists, it's likely he's INTENTIONALLY confusing you, or not certain of things himself. If he continues to maintain that he doesn't want to explain himself because you're hurting him by making him do so, that's a classic "gaslighting" technique that means he has something to hide that's best served by making you confused.

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Is it possible for me not understanding his explanation to be a LB, and if it is what do I do about it?

Could be considered an Annoying Habit, but a fairly minor one. The best way to make sure you're on the same page is for him to say what he means, you restate it in your own words, him to clarify, you restate again in new words, etc. Often immediately post-affair my wife and I would have to go back and forth many times. If your spouse is incapable of or unwilling to do this with you, it usually means they've run up against a mental block or fog: what they are saying doesn't actually make sense, but their brain twists it around to say it does in order to fit with some internal reality (like being in love, hiding something, having tremendous cognitive dissonance, etc.)

If he keeps doing it, you can be pretty certain it's not your comprehension that's at fault. It's more that he's trying to throw you off some trail.

This is sounding more and more like he's hiding something, particularly when he blames you for being so reasonable. You really need to find out what that something is!


Doormat_No_More
(Formerly Barnboy)
Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
Two Years Later
Four Years Later
Doormat_No_More #2553047 10/14/11 08:05 AM
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Thank you DMNM, the information that you gave me has been very helpful, as always.

I read over the description of the electric fence personality and got his agreement to go over it with me to see if we could get some insight to our situation. The part that really resonated with us about his personality is not really knowing his likes and dislikes. After discussing we think that he probably has more of a people pleaser personality, and that the reason he that he does not know what he likes is because he doesnt ask himself what makes him happy when he makes a decision, he asks himself if it is going to make someone else happy.

He often feels discontent about something but doesnt like to do a lot of thinking trying to figure it out, his unhappiness level has to be fairly high before he puts any energy into trying to figure out what is wrong. Even then he often finds such enjoyment knowing that other people are happy about it that he "just goes with the flow" until his unhappiness reaches a very high level.

I think that may contribute to why I often feel blindsided by new complaints, he acts fine until he gets VERY unhappy and then all of a sudden it's a really big deal seemingly out of nowhere. I told him that I usually feel off balance and have a hard time adjusting to him because of all of this, and we agreed to try the provisional POJA. I think that would help a lot. He often knows that a situation makes him unhappy, but he is unsure as to exactly what it is that bothers him. Doing POJA that way will let us try various fixes as we try and figure out what is upsetting him.

I also saw a lot of myself in the electric fence description. I have a very clear idea of where my fences are, but I definately feel that there are just places I can't go without feeling extremely unhappy. We were able to identify some of my fence areas and how it was creating issues for us. It gave us a great new perspective and terminology to use about those areas that helped us to communicate more clearly. I think provisional POJA will help me too because I can agree to try something and back away if it creates unhappiness.

I discussed the routine thing with him and he says its an area that he was going with the flow in because it made me happy and his unhappiness was minimal at the time. His job has recently gotten a lot more rountine, our usual babysitter has been having personal problems and our UA time has been mostly at home for a few weeks and he is now feeling very unhappy about it. He said needs more unstructured time built in to our routine and for us to have more recreational UA time outside the house.

He also agreed to try the technique that you mentioned for helping me to understand him when I get confused by what he is saying, but said that he gets frustrated when he feels he has run out of ways to explain it to me and I still dont get it.

I am taking your thoughts about him hiding something very seriously, and am increasing my vigilance.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2555543 10/20/11 12:30 PM
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I havent found anything that indicates he is hiding something from me, I am going to keep checking, but nothing so far.

I'm just getting frustrated. I am doing a better job of dealing with the past and handling the hurt from all of that, but it's really because I simply refuse to be a victim of that anymore or to live in the past. I am tired of being unhappy and living in the past that I cant change guarantees unhappiness. Living in the present is better and I do feel better because of it.

On the other hand I feel the M we have in the present is not at the level I would like it to be. I mean it's not awful but it's not amazing either. And I dont want to stay forever in a M that isnt amazing.

I am sure I contribute to it not being amazing, but I have such a hard time adjusting to him. I feel like I get mixed messages from him or no messages at all. He usually has something critical to say about what I do or how I could have done it better, but he says he is happy and his needs are met...just confuses me. I dont know what I need to work on and he doesnt like to brainstorm so I end up trying to come up with most of the solutions on my own. So I guess just confused and tired.

When it comes to getting my needs met I am trying to be more specific about exactly what I would like to get from him but it doesnt really seem to be effective. For example I told him that it would help with my family commitment need if he spent 15 minutes a day with the kids on weekdays and maybe an hour with them each day of the weekend. He agreed to that and I suggested bath time because that is the kids favorite evening activity. He agreed to it, and I asked specifically if he liked that idea or if he thought something else might be a better option. He said that he agreed. So he took the kids in and put them in the tub and spent most of the time they were in there standing in the bathroom door watching TV while they played.

Ok so thats not really meeting my need. I asked him if next time he could actually stay in there with them during their baths or pick some other activity that was more enjoyable for him. He said he would stay in there with them, and he did for a day or two and then he was back to watching TV. Actually when it comes to the kids he is pretty much like that unless the activity is just sitting watching TV or playing video games with them in the first place. So I asked him again if he wanted to try something besides bathtime and he tells me I need to just let him do things with the kids his way and that watching TV and playing video games is bonding.

IDK myabe it is, but it really doesnt meet my need. And there are three of my top 5 EN's that I get basically that same situation on. I try to be specific and not confusing about what I want and provide options on ways that he can meet that need so he doesnt feel forced to do one specific thing that he may not be enthusiastic about. He agrees to something but no follow through on it. I dont know anymore what else I can do to help change this. I know I cant control what he does, but maybe I am doing something wrong in my approach that I dont see?

I am just tired, I am the one who tries to fix things, come up with all the plan, the solution, the next thing to try and it's been nearly 3 years of it. Two of which was drowning in the fallout of drugs, alcohol and infidelity on top of living in different countries. I am thinking more on the idea that if our M isnt better than it ever was, if we arent passionately in love after 2 years then Dr Harley advises separation. I've put off the start of that 2 years till he was home and we had a better chance of making it, but the first year is almost up and we are not where we need to be.

What else can I do to fix this?


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2555602 10/20/11 03:05 PM
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I haven't read the book, so maybe this is off the mark. Have you looked at the book, "His Needs, Her Needs for Parents". I took a look at the Table of Contents and it has a chapter called, "Parenting Takes Time: How to Be a Committed Mom and Dad".

Maybe someone who has read this book can chime in.

Also, here is something that helped us with the affection lesson that could be used for other things. I developed a spreadsheet with H's list of weekly tasks and placed it on the computer desktop where we can both look at it.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2555941 10/21/11 10:47 AM
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I havent read HNHN for Parents yet, we just have the regular version, but even that talks about spending time with the kids etc. I talked to him again last night and he said he is just too tired to spend 15 minutes a day with them during the week. I am going to try and move our UA time to in the mornings so he gets to sleep earlier at night. I think he would end up getting ready for work instead of paying attention to me but I am desperate enough to try. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.

I love the spreadsheet idea, and I think it would work great for me, I doubt I could H to be enthusiastic about it though because it makes more structure and routine in his life. Maybe if I try it it will motivate him to do something more to try and meet my needs. He doesnt communicate his needs to me very much, and almost never tells me if I am off target with trying to meet his needs until he is extremely upset about something but I can try.

I just really feel like I need him to help me figure out how to fix this. I keep coming up with all these ideas, and they work for me, but they dont work for him. I am getting frustrated that I am not getting enough info from him to accomplish anything. I am not even asking him to make the plan, just to help figure out some idea of what might work for him.

Mostly I get that he just doesnt know what would help.
He's just too tired to spend time with the kids.
He just doesn't communicate well about his feelings.
He just forgets to help with domestic stuff or doesnt have time.

So I keep lowering the standard hoping that eventually it will be low enough that he will meet it. Maybe the idea that something is better than nothing, and then he tells me that it feels like he just cant make me happy and he feels bad anytime I tell him I would like to see more of something or maybe doing something a little differently.

I feel bad because in a way I think maybe I am demanding that he meet my needs, not flat out demanding but I tell him that I need this need met and I tell him if what he is doing is working or if it needs adjusting to be on target.

I just cant lower the standards anymore, and I dont want to stay forever in a M where he is unwilling to meet my needs. I feel guilty for that because he says he's happy and I'm really not, and I dont want to be the one to give up.

It seems like it would be a lot easier to just separate myself from him emotionally but thats the easy way out and isnt going to help us have a good M.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2556163 10/21/11 04:05 PM
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Rising,

Why is your husband so tired? Is he working long hours? Is he depressed? Some of your description reminds me of my husband before he started treatment for his PTSD/depression.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2556784 10/23/11 01:50 PM
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It could be depression I guess, he was on AD in germany. Mosty he seems happy and energetic unless I ask him for something.

The last day or two he has decided to drop a whole list of complaints on me that he says he has been unhappy about for months even though I ask him a few times a week if he is happy and we just did the EN questionaire and he has been saying everything is fine and I was doing great meeting his needs.

I am fed up.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2563143 11/11/11 11:27 PM
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Just wanted to say thank you to all of you that supported me during my time here, I will always admire your strength and your courage and I wish all of you the best, you deserve it!


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2563145 11/11/11 11:42 PM
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...thank you to all of you that supported me...

RFA, whatever you're going through, we're still here to support you. What do you need?

NeverGuessed #2563678 11/14/11 10:32 AM
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I wasnt planning on posting anymore, I am just about at my limit of what I can take. Caught him in another lie recently about the things he told me about the A's. He just doesnt seem to understand that it WILL come out somehow, even if we arent talking about the A's directly. This happens every few months of so even though I have stopped asking him about the A's, other things come up and he says something that contradicts what he told me because he has forgotten the lie he told, or it comes out different ways, like not being able to open a bank account in his name because he has one that he left overdrawn by $600 that he spent on drugs and rental cars to get to the bars. It does come out eventually, one way or another.

He has been essentially ignoring me when I tell him he isnt my needs, or responding to it by LBing me horribly. POJA is virtually impossible because if I tell him I do not agree with his opinion he responds by telling me that he is always wrong, or his opinions dont count and walks away. I have tried to find out what I am doing beyond just not agreeing with him that makes him feel this way (a tone of voice, a facial expression, etc) and he says he doesnt know. I dont know how to fix it.

I dont even have time right now to get into the difficulty I am having trying to meet his needs.

I was to the point that I was packing up his stuff before he stopped the verbal attacks I have been getting lately. I have had enough of doing this. It hurts.

If he wants to stay he has to:

Post here often, at least every other day
-adopt a zero tolerance for LB's
-express a willingness to POJA ways he can enthusiastically meet my EN's
-be O&H about how I can meet his needs and POJA ways I can be enthusiastic about doing it
-pass a polygraph when we get our tax return and we can afford it
*The only question I have is if he has been honest about everything about his A's, if not he is gone, no more trickle truth
-he says he cant think of everything he needs to say when we discuss things face to face, so we both have a notebook that we can write in to help communicate needs and stuff to each other, he has to write in this daily

So I guess what I need is a 2x4 if I am wrong on any of this, and for someone to help him when he posts here. I am at my limit of how much I can take. Thanks for the support NG.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2563775 11/14/11 01:10 PM
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If he wants to stay he has to:

-Post here often, at least every other day
-adopt a zero tolerance for LB's
-express a willingness to POJA ways he can enthusiastically meet my EN's
-be O&H about how I can meet his needs and POJA ways I can be enthusiastic about doing it
-pass a polygraph when we get our tax return and we can afford it
-he says he can't think of everything he needs to say when we discuss things face to face, so we both have a notebook that we can write in to help communicate needs and stuff to each other, he has to write in this daily

I understand you consider these actions as mandatory on his part. Does he? Does he comprehend and accept that his "non-involvement" in nourishing your marriage is causing its death, and that (figuratively speaking), you've bought the plot and ordered the box?

I would suggest picking ONE of those actions (one easily measurable) give him a set period (two weeks) with a clearly defined result for failure, and track the results.

Extrapolating from the evidence so far presented about WH's paucity of success in any program, I'd expect him to fail. Impose the penalty (NO WAVERING!) Set the same program once again in place with a different (more severe?) penalty and hit "go" again.

Seriously, then, if he fails the second time, you'll have a firm grounding for considering your next actions.

NeverGuessed #2563915 11/14/11 04:45 PM
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Does he comprehend and accept that his "non-involvement" in nourishing your marriage is causing its death, and that (figuratively speaking), you've bought the plot and ordered the box?

He says that he does. I told him that I am not really ready at this point to believe that things are going to improve and my $LB is so dangerously depleted that I really cannot continue on anymore like this. I also wrote it down in my notebook to share with him. That I have lost nearly all of my love for him and I am considering divorce if the situation does not improve and that I consider the things I listed to be the minimum amount at this point that I can live with and remain in the M.

I feel like I may be stepping into making SD's on some of these things, and please someone let me know if I am. I just know that I am finding it increasingly difficult to remain in the situation as it is now. I am struggling to meet his needs because he is not telling me how and I am struggling with LB's because he is not giving me specific actions that I can change, just a general idea that he feels like I am not listening or respecting him. I have done everything I know to do to POJA and he either agrees and does not follow through (even when I ask repeatedly if he is sure he is enthusiastic about the agreement) or says he is just always wrong and leaves the conversation (again I get no specifics of what I am doing that could be causing him to feel he is always wrong). I am trying to pull my own weight and motivate by example, by getting him to feel love for me and want to meet my needs in return but it seems my efforts are just not meeting the mark and I dont know what to correct.

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Impose the penalty (NO WAVERING!)

Not sure what that penalty would be, I dont want to punish him. I want a fulfilling M, for both of us. I do agree on having a time in my mind for him to begin to come on board with that, and after that time if he is not engaging me in the program and working the recovery plan with me then I am thinking I may have to do Plan B or even D. After our experience of being separated and the drugs, drinking, OW's etc I dont really think I would be able to recover after a Plan B unless it involved a follow-up polygraph proving that he was not unfaithful to me during the separation.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2564045 11/14/11 10:14 PM
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Not sure what that penalty would be, I dont want to punish him. I want a fulfilling M, for both of us.

Did you intentionally write these sentences knowing that they summarize EXACTLY where your marriage is deficient?

Right now hubby's non-performance in working with you to repair your marriage is consistent with that of a petulant 13-year-old
  • who does not comprehend his math lessons
  • does not work to learn what he does not know
  • is content to fail
because there is NO downside to his (in)action.

That is why I urged you TOGETHER to set a measurable action plan; with a reasonable target date; and a previously specified consequence for failure.

What I failed to advise before, but will now, is that if he abjectly refuses to engage in setting up the plan......lawyer up, file, and get the he77 out.

NeverGuessed #2564129 11/15/11 08:49 AM
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It wasnt intentional, but I do see your point.

I will talk to him about your idea and see if we can come up with some sort of plan.

He has been posting on here, and thats an easily measurable thing, so maybe we can start there.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2564693 11/16/11 11:03 AM
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Talked to him some yesterday about the plan that was suggested. I brought up possibly using a system of rewards in addition to or instead of a penatly because of Dr Harley's habits building article, where he says that if the new habit is not pleasurable in and of itself then the next best thing is to get something pleasurable for doing it. We havent been able to POJA what kind of reward we should use, and he doesnt like the idea of a penalty because he says that it would cause resentment. I told him that by choosing not to POJA a less severe penalty that he is leaving me with only one option in the event that he does not start participating in the program...and that is to leave until he shows me that he has made the necessary changes for a fulfilling M. He says he does understand that, and that he has no intentions of allowing that to happen.

Of course he was also talking about potential penalties being things like sleeping on the floor for a week, which is not what I had in mind at all. I am wondering if perhaps it is the word penalty that he really objects to, since he is thinking of it being some sort of physical and mental punishment. I am considering asking him if he agrees to making a post here about what area he did not complete, why he believed that happened, and getting the other posters advice on setting up a plan for success the next time, with him being accountable to the forum for each step of the plan. IF he should not be successful in an area of building new habits. It's not really a penalty, but it would give him some extra motivation to be successful.

Last edited by RisingFromAshes; 11/16/11 11:07 AM. Reason: typo

We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2564786 11/16/11 02:25 PM
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RFA,


Just a suggestion - and I may be totally wrong here - but I would say that if you have questions you post them on your thread. Requiring him to post certain things is dangerously close to using the forums to educate him, which makes it a DJ.

Again, I could be wrong...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2564939 11/16/11 09:35 PM
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I wouldnt have done it without his agreement, but since it could be considered a LB I will not bring it up to him. I think I am LB'ing enough with demanding that he post on the forums and the other things that I have told him I need him to do. We have discussed it and I told him that I know that me requiring that to stay in the M is a LB, I know he doesnt like it and I am requiring it anyway. It's calculated on my part, a gamble that I am taking. I am hoping that whatever love he loses for me by doing this I can regain. I think it's worth the risk because to continue on as we have would almost certainly result in the end of our M.

That would be the list I would give him of things that I required if I was to go into a Plan B, and I am giving him the chance do it now and hopefully avoid the Plan B situation. With two FWS's I think that Plan B would be more than usually stressful, especially since this is a non-A situation.

I am also doing everything I can to regain that lost love. I cant say it's Plan A exactly because I do have a requirement...him posting here...but I am doing everything I can to meet his needs in a huge way and expecting nothing else from him but that daily post. I know we will get to the needs meeting and stuff down the road but posting is the habit we are working on now and I want that one firmly formed before I try to move on to anything else.

So far to compensate I have done what he called "the best SF anybody ever had", all planned and instigated by me even though I am usually pretty shy about that kind of thing. He complained about doing the same old thing so we POJA'ed 5 or 6 new things and did them all yesterday, he seemed pleased. I am making a double layer chocolate cake with gumpaste autumn leaves, branches and a cute pumpkin for his potluck church thing tomorrow, updated my homeschool records, and made him a list of things he has done lately that I find admirable or have deposited love units (gonna do that one daily for him). I am seeking every opportunity to show him physical affection, and I am planning on writing him daily love notes in the mornings and following that up with thoughtful and provacative texts throughtout the day. I am also going to stay up tonight and get the house cleaned better since he said it has been bothering him and carry the laundry down to wash it which I usually ask him to help me with. Right now I am going to go and ask him to play cards with me while the cakes are baking...if I can get him away from the new COD_MW3 game. If not then I will find some other need meeting thing to do.

Anyways thanks for catching that DJ for me! And really if there is anything anyone can think of that might help me out some please let me know!


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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