Just wondering about this, so wanted to start a new thread.

So many BS on here talk about the WS at some point knows that the AP faked interest to get into their pants�that they certainly are aware of the fantasy that was the affair, are aware of the pain and destruction they caused, and as much pain as a BS is in, a WS or FWS, is in even more pain.

But how do we BS know this for sure? The affair was a fantasy, and escape�it was so good it is referred to as an addiction, something the WS craved.

Even a repentant FWS doesn�t hold on to what they felt was �good� in their indulgence? Or if they do, that is simply some of the �fog� remaining in them? Maybe they don�t always show it outwardly?
Being a BS devastated me�if it�s true that a WS feels even worse than this�..holy cow.

I'd like to know too. I feel a certain level of compassion for WS, but don't really know what to do with that feeling. I would love to understand the other side.

That's where I think I am heading with this post, too, MFJ...thanks.

Sorry, I feel compassion for a FWS. I offer compassion to any WS who is willing to take the needed steps to earn their F.

I simply don't tolerate those who are given the chance to earn their F and refuse, give excuses or whatever it is that prevents them from doing what they do.

No amount of pain felt by the WS ever justifies the pain and damage they inflict on others.

So compassion is offered to all, but is only given to those who embrace the path to becoming a FWS.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding (English is not my first language) the difference between compassion and forgiveness. I feel for any soul in pain, but that doesn't mean I forgive to me. Forgiveness is something you earn. As I understood it, compassion does not imply an action, I can feel for them, but that doesn't mean I offer them anything.

So while I feel compassion for the pain of a WS and would love to understand it, I would not forgive a WS, FWS on the other hand are hero's.

Totally correct me when I'm wrong, again it is not my first language, so please teach me!

You are correct, there is a difference.

I simply find it hard to have compassion for someone who willfully remains in such a pitiful state.

I reserve my compassion for those who do not wish to remain in that state.

It may be subtle, but that is my stand. I've suffered at the hands of one unrepentant WS already, so let's just say my compassion for the perpetually wayward is exhausted for a lifetime.

I am a WW who is trying very hard to earn the "F" in front of my name. As a WW, I would never say that my pain is greater than my betrayed husband. I do not think it is. I think it is different and has a few extra layers though. I will try to explain.

I did the worst thing possible to my husband who loved me and trusted me. I feel like a monster sometimes. That is awful pain.

I am having a very hard time right now with the guilt, shame and embarrassment of what I did. What I willingly chose. Even though I know that God forgives me and my husband forgives me, I have to live with what I did to my innocent husband. That is awful pain.

My husband has to deal with what was done TO him, but he can stand before me and before God knowing that he was faithful to me and kept his vows. It is a different kind of pain--see the difference ? Hard to explain, I know.

Now this next one is going to be hard for a betrayed spouse to read, but it plays into a wayward's pain, even though it is a self-inflicted pain. Here goes: As a wayward wife, I formed an illegitmate, unholy bond in my heart and in my body with a man who used, degraded, defiled, dishonored and rejected me. I thought in my addiction that this man loved me and that I loved him. The ugliness of the reality that he just wanted sex is hard to swallow, and I think might be harder for me as a woman to bear. And yes, I did the same using, degrading, defiling and dishonoring. Yes, I am getting just what I deserve. Still, it is painful to realize that someone I "loved" would treat me that way. I think it is a VERY SMALL bitter taste of the betrayal my husband must feel, as I treated him even WORSE.

Please please know that a repentent wayward deals with the "if only" every single day. "If only" I could turn back time, I would never have done this awful thing. "If only" I could make it right. "If only" I had gone straight to my spouse and told them right away, we could have worked on some issues together without this awful adultery too. "If only" I had said no. It really can be a slow torture.

If it's true......my Wife is gonna have a BAD DAY if she ever comes out of the fog!!


I'm not sure we CAN understand the other side.....only a FULLY OPEN and FULLY HONEST WS could ever get their BS to come close to understanding.

Bill you made me burst out laughing... I agree, if this is true, there are many waywards who are gonna have a VERY VERY BAD DAY if they come out of the fog.

PSMF,

Would this relate, then?

A while back, my W, in a sad, depressed state, apologizing for her A, said to me:

"Whatever issues YOU had in our old marriage can be fixed, improved, reconciled...what I did can never be undone. Ever."

thanks for your insight and sharing.

Dear PSMF: Your words are what I sincerely wish that my WW would believe and say to me.
But.....my WW is still caught in the fog.....I don't know if the A continues because my WW left our home.
I Thank You So Much for YOUR openness and YOUR honesty in trying to help we BS's understand.
(Could I get you to telephone my wife?!?! )

From what I have read on this website (that many BSs feel the pain of the betrayal is worse than rape or the death of a child), I can say that any pain I have felt cannot compare to that.

It is a frustrating situation to be in (having felt in the past torn between the truth and the fantasy, working to defog). But it is self-inflicted pain on the wayward's part. I don't think that can compare to what a blindsided BS has to endure.

Nonetheless, waywards do have feelings (even though they have been hijacked and misdirected). I don't think that should be completely forgotten.

Fixing the mess they have made is going to be hardwork; and, oftentimes hardwork is painful. We just have accept our responsibility, toughen up, and get the job done.

Thanks, helpfordad.

HFD, I very much understand this comment from your wife. I feel like that too. It is a true statement. What we waywards did can never be "fixed". It is with me all the time. Perhaps God will take that feeling away someday--I do not know. But just tonight as I walking around Target with my family I was thinking "I have ruined our life". I'm not saying these things to get sympathy of any sort--I don't deserve sympathy and I know it. It is just the way I feel.

BillCarolina, hang in there !! God sees and knows.

So true. You look in the face of your spouse and see it. You look at your children and see it. You look in the mirror and feel it. You put on a happy face and sometimes not always feel hollow. You know you destroyed everything and spend all your time with duct tape and super glue trying to keep the only thing in life you know you really want, together. It has been 3.5 years and now, despite all the work, now she is wayward.......
Arggg. I'm sure she is right its my fault, I made her pursue the ow.
Let me tell you I think it was more painfull. Being a fwh than being a bh. Maybe its just because I have this fantasy that maybe my wife will wake up and realize that she loves me and wants to b with me

Hope my w posts on this thread. She has a lot to offer here.


cv

Help, I think this how truly repentant WS's feel.

For me I look at CV and think how horrific it must be for him to have to live with the knowledge that his best friend killed him. Then I look at myself and think how will I live myself knowing that I chose to kill my best friend.

Both are devastating. The sad truth is that neither of us can fully understand the type of pain that each other is feeling, but the hardest part for me is this....

At one point I likened CV having to go through recovery with me to me having to go through recovery with the man who molested me for years. This may not be a perfect comparison, but I think it's how my beloved feels at times.

The pain of quilt is a good reminder that our BS's deserve our very best...they've had our worst.

HFD, I started to post on this thread yesterday and I couldn't find the right words. I'm going to try again, but still can't guarantee I'm going to find the right words!

I was struck by PSMF's comment:


It's a thought pattern I have been trapped in as well. I've said it's a constant barrage of coulda/woulda/shoulda's.

Even if my M had recovered, these thoughts would still exist. Would it be better or worse, to have recovered the love of my H, and deal with these thoughts? I don't know...I can't compare the pain of being in an unrecovered M with something I will never experience. It's all self-inflicted, the pain that I have over how I destroyed our M and ruined the lives of my H, my children, and yes, myself. How I betrayed not only my H and the promise I made to him, but how I betrayed my children, my God, my parents, my values, and myself.

Complicating everything is the self-inflicted part. I don't have to search for someone/something else to blame; I look into her eyes every time I look in the mirror.

And knowing too, that whatever pain *I* feel is nothing compared to what my BH feels...I know that I'll never be able to comprehend totally what he felt/still feels. Honestly, it makes me feel like a pretty selfish b*tch to dwell on my pain.

But, HFD, your W's comment that "Whatever issues YOU had in our old marriage can be fixed, improved, reconciled...what I did can never be undone," is true to an extent. What I mean is that the issues BOTH of you had in the pre-A M CAN be fixed/improved/reconciled - however, she is 100% correct that what she did - her A - can never be undone. The M can be made new, you two can be reconciled with each other and love restored, but nothing can ever erase the deliberate action of committing infidelity. It will always be there, even though with time and care the scar will someday be less visible.

I'd love nothing more than for my H and I to help each other heal from everything that has happened in the last couple of years, but absent that chance I deal with what I feel as best as I can on my own.

What I noticed with my WH is the drastic decline in his demeanor.

When the A first started he was on the fence for so long. The first time he tried to come back to the marriage he didn't make it long. I didn't have MB, so I didn't understand at the time false recovery or addiction.

What I am noticing now is nothing in his old life is stimulating enough to pull him out of the fantasy. I am not sure if POSOW is still in the picture or not (my thoughts are "YES"), but it may not be an active affair today, just an EA.

That being said I noticed my WH is now completely losing his mind. In the beginning our family, kids, homes, etc were still important. Today none of that matters, and his anger, rage, and mental state is increasing at a dramtic rate today.

I can see how a progressed affair really begins to mess with the waywards chemicals in their brain. For the past fifteen months I can see how the high at the beginning has changed as time has progressed.

My WH is a monster today. My Plan B was broke last Sunday. It was the first time I saw him since August, and he was a very different man. Unrecognizable, extrememly abusive, and seemed almost like he was having a break-down.

I am just praying he is on his way to bottom. If not, then I am okay to move on because who he is today is someone I do not want near me or our kids. Luckily his visitations are few and far between.

Toughlove,

I saw (and felt) this same decline in my own behavior...and it is a very scary feeling. I am sure your DH sees what you see when he looks in the mirror (but his pride and/or addiction may not allow him to admit it to himself).

For this "excitement" I thought OM could offer me, I was trying to make my own behavior more "exciting" to fit him. I dressed differently, spoke more daringly, tried to keep up with his level of drinking...all of these things are contrary to the life that I had established for myself.

But, wrapped in the fog, I had gotten the idea that the life I had established just...was no longer enough or no longer "right". And OM, my "soulmate", had the answers to what was missing. How did I get that notion in my head? How did I completely create this fantasy...and ignore the very obvious changes in my own behavior? Why did it become okay for me to indulge in these new behaviors?

I don't know.

And none of the new behaviors were leading anywhere positive. How could finding a "soulmate" only lead to negative changes in my behavior? I should have known something wasn't adding up. I don't think waywards are all that good at math through fog: everything looks kinda blurry.

I am just glad it is moving a little further in my past everyday.