That's all I have to say about that.

JB, the advice you're getting so far is great. May I add: I agree that it's a good idea to keep notes during the day about things to share with Dee. I would also suggest that you pick up a little thing here or there to bring home to her on occasion - things like a flower, or a little card with a sweet note in it. My H still does that on occasion, and we're 2+ years into recovery. He'll put a little note under my pillow for me to find at bedtime, or will tape a note to the bathroom mirror for me to find after he leaves for work. Sometimes he puts a note in my car for me to find when I leave for work in the morning.

Very romantic, and deposits a lot into my LB. I do the same for him.

JB, my H and I have started the online course just as you and chickadee have. I was reading through the LB book on openness and honesty just recently, and I would say that this LB is probably one of your, and my husband's, worst.

One of the suggestions that Dr Harley has for why a spouse lies is that they are trying to protect the other spouse from unpleasant truths - or at least, that's what they think they are doing.

You have had multiple affairs. My H has had one affair in which contact has been maintained - and I have been deceived - for 8 years. There are similarities in the BS's experience with multiple affairs and with multiple false recoveries, and I think I know what chickadee feels about your need to be honest with her.

Chickadee has found out that, for a portion of your life, you thought nothing of hurting her to fulfil your desires. Also, she found out that you are capable of running a secret second life (and how!) and that she will not know when this is happening. There are WSs who are bad at the lying and covering up involved in an affair, and there are a few that confess when the BS puts them under pressure. You (and my H) are not one of those WSs. You and my H are really easy liars when it comes to selfish desires. You are good at it. You can separate your lives into the affair life, and adopt a mindset that goes with that, and the married life, and have a completely different mindset to go with that. You develop separate compartments in your minds for each of your lives and you are not troubled by running the two in tandem.

This is a horrifying thing for a BS to discover - and remember, I am saying that this is always discovered with multiple affairs and LTAs. You have made lying and a secret second life into a lifestyle choice. It is no longer an aberration, as an affair is for some WSs. It might even be a part of your basic character.

When you screw up in some way, and then lie to chickadee about the details - to try and protect her - you are not protecting her at all. No lying is really protective, but in your case it is also something else. It is a return to your being the same man who had multiple affairs against her and never batted an eyelid at hurting her.

The only way you can protect chickadee from hurt is to stop hurting her. Do not forget POJA when she is not with you; it still applies to decisions you make involving other areas of your life. More importantly, do not lie to her when you break POJA. If you break it then it is your responsibility to put it right - but you will never put it right by lying to chickadee.

Don't push your forgiving BW away by lying to her. Don't lie, ever again, JB.

I figured it was because he liked to make jerky.

Welcome to MB, JB. I have been following chicka's story since she started posting here and have admired her for fighting for your M after all that she has been through.


While it is great that you are transparent, that is only a part of being O&H. And being 100% O & H is probably one of the most important things you can do right now. Not only does it meet one of chicka's top ENs, but when you are NOT O&H (meaning you leave out details that she finds out about later on her own, which you have admitted to doing) it is a HUGE lovebuster. Huge.

And it sets back your recovery given that she was in the dark on what was going on in your secret second life for so long...and of course, she is going to wonder, What else is he not telling me?

I have talked to Dr Harley about the topic of radical honesty on the radio show. It is not only a moral issue (do you believe that you need to tell chicka EVERYTHING?) but it also requires practice. And for most people who have had a secret second life, especially a long one, it is going to be hard to be radically open and honest and you will most likely need to practice it in order to get into the habit of it.

Practice sitting down with her after work each day and telling her the details about your day, especially regarding any interactions with females. If there is a detail about your day that you even have to wonder if you need to tell her, it might be easier to just keep that to yourself (you know what I am referring to, right?), then that is exactly the type of thing that you need to tell her about, right away.




JB, I hope you will come to realize that some 2x4s are actually the way we show our support around here. We are rooting for your M!

FIRST I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE.
this is not something you can talk about openly with people and if i did they couldnt relate and the the advice would be horrible anyway SO THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE GUY WANDERING IN THE DARK

i will work on my replies.

quick question, how do you pick out a quote and have it pasted in the box so you can refer to it when replying?

See these buttons on the bottom of each post?

Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post

Click "quote" underneath the post you want to quote and the magic is done! Post your own words above or underneath the quote.

Click "preview post" to see what your post will look like, and correct any errors before pressing "submit".

You can take out parts of the post that you don't want, as long as you do not mess with the brackets at the beginning and end of the quoted post.

this forum is chock full of good advice

...and tough women waiting for your responses.

shutting down is easy (not right) because nothing seems to get worked out in a fight. its emotional not logical. it is easy to fight at work its not emotional. nothing gets accomplished when its emotional. sometimes i need time to wrap my head around the issue and start over. i just seem to take too long. i'll work on not climbing in the cave. it obviously isnt working for me.

[quote=wulffpack_girl] It's hard *not* to shut down.

A journal has been suggested on lots of threads, one that you and Dee can either pass back and forth, or one you can leave available for her. It may help you with the whole "everything is important/not telling her what is important" issue.

I remember one of the things she and I talked about was RH/O&H. I was a trickle-truther as well, and post-A, O&H was my H's #1 EN. JC thought that it was most likely not more O&H about my A or the past that he wanted at that point, but more O&H about my present thoughts, feelings, and so on.

Get one of those little pocket-sized journals and keep it on you at all times. Write in it throughout the day. When you are home, leave it where she can read it whenever she feels like it. The more open and vulnerable you are to her, I bet the less she'll "flip out." You might be calling and texting your whereabouts and such, but what about the thoughts you have throughout the day? JC told me if I ever had the thought, "I shouldn't tell my H about this," then DUH - tell him! What about things that happen during the day that make you think of Dee - you read a funny story on the web, maybe, and think, oh, Dee would think this was funny - write it down.

quote]

great idea. i will do starting today and especially when we fight.

tickle truth is tough, and hurts everyone, and when you say it all out loud, it makes you feel like a monster. i didnt think putting it all out there would be so hard to do. in the end i couldnt do it and had to write it all out. once i handed over the paper you cant suger coat or leave something out.

once she had all the information the worst thing happened.... i destroyed something beautful, and i felt free and horrible at the same time ....my head....brain and heart overload if i question something if i should tell my wife. i will write it down. its probably the most important thing i should tell her. good advice

JB, you are messing about with the brackets! On the last post, you left one saying

quote]

when it should have said

[/quote]!

Delete the text you don't want, but leave the brackets alone!

Notebooks and time limits. set time limits on the talks and write down important things. that way when/if you go off on the argument you can revisit when cooler heads prevail.

i am opening up more and more everyday. the more open/honest i am, the easier it becomes. each is a grain

your quote:
marianne wiliamson- It is our light, not our darkness that we fear.........playing small does not serve the world. we are all ment to shine"

do not be afraid to become something great. if you set out to succeed dont do it half heartedly....i'm all in...

POJO this was tough actually- a started giving in to everything and then was mad about it later instead of JOINT AGREEMENT. that took a while to figure out

RH this was slow but becomes increasingly easier. almost to the point where i say should i say that? but it always seems to be the right thing to do. and not saying it is always bad

UA this is pretty easy

Can you tell me more?

How many hours each week, how do you decide what to do, and what types of activities are you both choosing...

Are you scheduling the UA time or just winging it?

Are you scheduling time for SF or just allowing it to occur naturally?

Due to your coaching, I'm assuming you've both done the RC Worksheet, please correct me if that's not the case..

I know, I'm a man with many questions!

This one still needs an answer tooooo....

i assumed you would be asking the tough questions. its tough to answer, because it reminds me of the person i became, and the pain i caused my wife.


the affairs started 12yrs ago
there have been quite a few

(i was going to end it at that, but then what is the point of posting. i'm not just looking to talk but get advice and move forward in a positive direction with my wife.)

i wrote them all out and gave them to my wife
afairs ranged from flrting in a bar to sex in the most recent cases.

most afairs consisted of flirting in a bar or one or two dates (not sexual)and spaced out over long periods of time.

love was never a consideration

in the beginning I ended anything if it hinted at emotional or physical. however, they mostly started for the need for attention and affecton. sex was never a goal.

make any sense?

UA we are empty nesting so spending time together is easy, 40+hrs

UA activities: cooking, going out to dinner, diagnostic, talk,

UA we used to schedule it but now wing it

SF no scheduling / avg monthly

never got to the RC worksheet