Until the wayward spouse or the betrayed spouse accepts that they alone control themselves, they are immune to all our MB 'teachings'.

"The Devil made me do it." <~~~ External locus of control.
"It just happened." <~~~ External locus of control.
"I couldn't stop myself." <~~~ External locus of control.
"He/She made me break Plan B." <~~~ External locus of control.
"You made me run back to the OW/OM." <~~~ External locus of control.


External locus of control = "I not responsible for what I did or what I will do."
External locus of control = "No MB Plan will really work, because outside forces cause me do what I do."
External locus of control = A serious lack of personal boundaries.

Waywards or betrayed spouses with external locus of control will be far more likely to feel they are a victim. Powerless. Useless. Caught up in circumstances which they have no power to change.

A cop out?
Maybe.
A personality style?
Certainly.

A person who feels they are without power over themselves will claim no responsibility for their actions. After all, it was not their fault. Some other force caused them to act the way they act.

If you see a MB'er who is sticking to their PLAN, the odds are great that that person has an Internal Locus of Control.


When dealing with an MB'er with a high level of self control, you are less likely to hear the "Yes, but ...." (Which drives me NUTZ )

When a MB'er asks questions about the plans .... I see a betrayed spouse (or a former wayward) with personal self control and that person will usually have success in life no matter what happens with their marriage.

I observe that couples who both think that outside forces control them have a very low chance of MB success. We can cram MB theory/Plans/articles down their throat until the cows come home .... "Yes, but ..." will usually prevail.

When is it "the fog" and when is it an ingrained style of coping with life?
It's sometimes difficult to determine. Especially after trauma. Or, during a period of severe emotional pain. And, it is very difficult to say if this will turn around when there is depression or anxiety at play.
However, I think that over time, people will either take their known attributes and make the most of what they have, or they will throw themselves on the floor, have a pity party tantrum and announce to the world their victimization status. Thus releaving themselves of any personal responsibility.

Just my thought today.

I see. So if I'm reading you right, some of us have this internal locus thingy, and the rest of us are just out of luck, because nature/God didn't choose to endow us with one and gave us an external locus instead? Is that right?

Noooooo.
Most of us tend to fly one way or the other, but we all have moments of being an "innie" or an "outie".
I think it is learned.

Right. It's truly something that is within our locus of control.

Anyway, my lighthearted (and probably oblique) attempt at humor aside ... great post. I felt like it was written straight at me, actually!

I've been thinking about this for awhile.
In reference to one of our kids.
Our son used to say:
"I can't help it." when he did something wrong.
I'd ask: "Are you saying to me that you have no control over yourself?"
Him: "Well, yeah, I guess so."
Me in Mom-from-hell-mode: "Well, OK. Now I completely understand. Since you have no self control, you will require someone else, like me or Dad, to control you."

Right about then, he started back-tracking ....

This was a few years ago.

Anywho .... I'll never forget his face when he backed himself into a corner.

He is/was one of those hard headed sorts who learns only by having his consequences rain heavily and more than once.

He's much better now.
He's in the damn ARMY following orders !

Pep, I am so going to steal and use that in a couple years when some of our children start to be old enough to understand it. The oldest is probably almost there, actually.

We find that a lot of parenting is similar to the skills involved in dealing with a wayward. Go figure.

You are so right there ...very similar indeed.

I work with lots of people who say things like, "It wasn't my fault," or "He made me do it." Lots of times, they will allow someone else to answer for them, or they will answer for others when they are not supposed to.



I return fire, and jump right in the middle of them.

My response is along these lines:


"So you are telling me that the brain inside of YOUR BODY

is somehow connected to the brain inside of HIS BODY?

Show me how that works, and we can talk about it."


I might say something like, "So tell me, is it your plan to allow this other person to follow you around for the rest of your entire life, and make every single choice for you? Because if that is your plan, that's fine by me. I just need to know, so if I have a question for YOU, I can be sure to ask the right person - if HE is making YOUR decisions for you, then I want to be sure to ask HIM."

THIS IS QUITE EFFECTIVE FOR TEENAGERS.



It will stop the blame game dead in its tracks.



If they are talking for another person, and being dominant over someone, I say:

"Are you planning to follow her around for the rest of her life and make all of her decisions for her? Have you asked her if that is HER plan?"

Usually, the person who has been dominated turns to the other person, and says something along the lines of, "I don't think so!!!"

SB

SB

Today I started reading Anatomy Of Peace.

Sooooo.... I thought that the whole "Locus of Control" thing sounded familiar.

It was. It was in the Resiliency building series on AoM (Part III; Taking Control of Your Life), and I had previously posted it on the men's thread.


http://artofmanliness.com/2010/02/16/building-your-resiliency-part-iii-taking-control-of-your-life/

Pep,

Anatomy of Peace spoke to the more common or family relationships. It explains the ideas of boxes and how we fit into them. Gets into details about the types of things we do in relationships and finding our own patterns in goofing up, basically.

The first book talked more about the concept of self-betrayal and also of self-deception.

If you look up The Arbinger Institute, they have academic papers published in philosophy that are more difficult to read, but explain the ideas more in-depth.

I read these books in the height of the marital crisis, looking to make true changes. They really do work hand-in-hand with the MB concepts - especially with the idea of working to meet the needs of the other person, recognizing those things that you yourself are doing wrong, understanding that blaming others is not the most productive approach to problem-solving, etc.

And the examples of how to work with someone else who is uncooperative with you (such as a spouse) are SO in line with MB it was scary!

I learned so much. I can say that I liked the first one better than the second one - only because I'm a nerdy-nerd, and I thought it was more my style I think. The concepts, though, are very good, and very applicable to real life interactions.




I heard something yesterday:


When you blame someone else it might feel good, but you are actually giving away your own power. When you take responsibility, you have the power to do something to change the situation, and make things turn out however you want them to be.


SB

I borrowed that first book from Scotland, and read it.
Which is why I am onto the second book.







In a good way .......






Exactly.

Or ........ EGG ZAK LEE

Accepting responsibility is an opportunity .... one that is lost when a person blames some outside force.

I was discussing these ideas with Mr Pep over sushi the other day ... Mr Pep gave an example to see if he understood the concept.

He has a friend since high school I will call Mr Tuba.
Mr Tuba was complaining about something & someone in his miserable life.
(over the phone, he lives in another state)
Mr Pep made a suggestion: "Why don't you try blah blah blah?"

Mr Tuba says: "That works for you because you're a Gemini."


I said to Mr Pep:
"EGG ZAK LEE .... That's external locus of control."

"Plus, he just insulted you by inferring your skills and your talent and your effort played no part in your success. YOUR success was entirely external and therefore random."

Great list, thanks.

I think external locus of control also makes a person more prone to jealousy over another person's successes.

Dang. I'm a Virgo. I'm doomed to failure.

It's not your fault.

Of course it does!

Because those with an external locus of control believe that one succeeds because of "luck," or because of "who you know." They believe that talent is a "gift" and not something that is sharpened and developed with rigorous practice and drive for improvement.

This is terrific news! I can blame my parents!


Freud was RIGHT!

As I understand it, we Virgos are eternally doomed to succeed.

To always be right...

And I always am.

eta: Though I sometimes change my mind.

If new data comes in...

Blah blah blah ALWAYS works for geminis. Ask me how I know.

Aph, I've been accused of "always being right"!

I just tell people that I cannot help it if I have this curse


Itty-boo. I tell them they COULD be right, too, if they would just always agree with me.......


SB