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Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
The Link that unhappybs posted is one of my threads that I started to help FWS's with EP's...

Lets take it one step at a time before you attempt to tackle the EP's though.

There are several critical things that need to happen first, OK!

First things first, did you do a NC Letter? If so, tell me how it was done.

You didn't just help, sir. You set the bar.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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With the information SugarCane gave you.....

Did you send a NC(No Contact)Letter to your AP(Affair Partner)in order to insure that she would never contact you again?





Recovery began 10/07;

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I want to share something with you!

I was a man that wanted to save my marriage and I was willing to do whatever it took for that to happen! Are you the same type of man??

I read each of Dr. Harley's books, "Surviving An Affair", "His Needs, Her Needs", "Love Busters", "Fall In Love, Stay In Love", and I read all of thes books in the first 4 weeks of recovery... That's one book each week! And then I read them again! Studied them, highlighted them and asked a great deal of questions to a few people, from this forum, that were helping me through email and by phone.

I read them with my wife and on my own. I often re-read the chapters I covered on my own, with my wife, so we could talk about the material and so I could help jump start our recovery.

I say this, not to brag, but to point out that I was willing to do whatever it took. And for the record, I do not read very well, my vision is terrible and I read slow.... But I chose to make it a priority.

So why have you been dragging your feet and making the reading of these books such a slow process?

Can you speed up the time it's taking you to read Dr. H's books?

Last edited by HerPapaBear; 10/24/11 06:32 PM.




Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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The NC was taken care of before we knew about MB and to enforce the NC my wife has all my passwords and if I don't recognise a number on my phone I don't answer it and let my wife call it back. And if I ever am contacted I will make it clear not to ever try again. And let my wife know it happened
As for not having all the books read there is no excuse for me. I know that.
But I'm changing that now. I realize how important it is now. I had it in my head that I could do this without all the reading and worksheets. But that's not the case. I see that now. And I'm going to do what it takes to make things better no matter how much it hurts me.

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Originally Posted by dtl
I'm going to do what it takes to make things better no matter how much it hurts me.

What "hurts"?
Reading?
Learning?
What hurts you?
I don't understand.

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Opening up about my past I had a very bad childhood. But I know it's nothing compared to what I did to my wife.

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Originally Posted by dtl
Yes you are and I want to change that. I want to take the lead. I just know it will be hard and I will need help along the way. I'm going to start by making sure we stick with the steps. But I will be looking for advice along the way

DTL,
'
Welcome. I know it seems an impossible task (taking the lead) after having devastated your marriage. I am willing to bet that you are terrified of failing. It is hard stepping into shoes you don't feel fit you anymore. It can be paralyzing. Sometimes though, you just have to do it. Pick up doing it anywhere along the line. I am betting luvsdavid will be willing to let you make some mistakes along the way until you get into the groove of taking charge of these things.



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3 young adult children


"A story of me"
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Originally Posted by dtl
Opening up about my past I had a very bad childhood. But I know it's nothing compared to what I did to my wife.

Historical Honesty is important in a marriage, but you should not be re-living your childhood pains as a result of improving your marriage.

Childhood = 10 years of tangible childrens memories.

Adult/Marriage = 50+ years of adult memories.


Lets stay focused on the current, adult, marriage,,, OK!
You'll build some good memories as you progress.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by dtl
Opening up about my past I had a very bad childhood.

Condolences.
Are you using marriage recovery as a therapy session to discuss very old news?
Are you diverting your attention away from the tasks you need to be doing in order to lick your ancient childhood wounds? I ask you not to be doing this.

Quote
But I know it's nothing compared to what I did to my wife.

It is not productive to compare your childhood events to current events.
Is that a part of Dr Harley's plan?
No, it is not.

You have tasks to do.
Do them.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions.
I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

LINK to original ... on Newsletters Forum

KEEP POSTING !!!! hurray

Last edited by Pepperband; 10/25/11 09:28 AM.
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The key that makes MB a success is you begin a new habit. In your childhood you learned things that brought you into adulthood.

As you can see you likely didn't learn the right way to do things, and hence you adulthood is now filled with bad habits you learned as a child to cope.

The great thing is that was the past. Today you can begin a daily set of actions that will build a new set of habits for you. You will never have to cope like a child again. Nope MB teaches you how to get through life as a man ... a happy man too!

It usually takes 21 days to form a new habit. Sometimes longer depending on the person. It won't hurt you I promise. It will build perseverance, stamina, character, and faith. Studies have proven a real man will out perform a boy any day. That's what we are aiming for here ... RIGHT ... how to be the man your wife believes you can become. She didn't divorce you. Nope, she is standing by you "For Better/For Worse". She is a strong woman. A woman of character.
" I would take one of thems standing next to me anyday."

When you're old, sick, hurting, sad, dying ... your woman just proved to you she will be standing by you wanting to care for you.

Let's start caring for her now ... that way we can guarantee she will be next to you. She will love you until the day you die. That is our goal here ... RIGHT ... you want to be loved and cared for by your wife for the rest of your life?

Also, another thought to you is to stop the self doubt. I reckon your comment about how this work will hurt suggests you doubt you can accomplish this, and that my friend suggests you have a known pattern as a quitter.

The key is to stick with it. Don't quit posting here for one. Then you are already a winner. Make it a habit - you post every day. Try it for a straight 21 days.

Secondly - Knock out your Wife's ENs. Pick her top five for the next 21 days and accomplish them.

There you go

1) Post daily
2) Meet top 5 EN's
3) Don't quit

Tough

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Originally Posted by dtl
The NC was taken care of before we knew about MB and to enforce the NC my wife has all my passwords and if I don't recognise a number on my phone I don't answer it and let my wife call it back. And if I ever am contacted I will make it clear not to ever try again. And let my wife know it happened

Lets talk more about the No Contact that was establised prior to learning about Marriage Builders.

Do you understand why No Contact is so important?


Here is an excerpt from one of Dr. H's letters;

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, Jr.
Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

This would include looking at facebook/myspace old photo pages etc.... it does great damage to our spouse when this occurs.

Any continued contact with an AP would be both thoughtless and cruel.

Even after a year or more of recovery, I've even seen some waywards that have done searches online for the AP because they were "curious".... Somehow justifying, in their own mind, that it's not really contact, only to discover that even that one thoughtless act would end their marriage and/or send recovery all the way back to square one!

So let me ask again,,,, Do you REALLY understand why NC is so critical to recovery?

Are you willing to accept this as a lifetime condition??





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Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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My H is an active member of AA.
One of the AA mottos that I really like ....

"Keep showing up"


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I do understand why NC is so important and agree with it completely.
And my wife let me know the same thing today that every one else has today about my childhood. That does help a lot. I had seen one off the work sheets about family history is were I even got that in my head. I never had plans of giving up. I was just terrified of screwing up and my wife is so smart I thought it would be best to let her lead the way. But turns out I was messing up doing it that way much worse. I'm realizing that now. So I'm taking the lead and I know I may mess up from time to time.
I really thank every one for posting and helping me thanks

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dtl, let's talk about how to begin care and protection in recovery from infidelity.

First I'm going to suggest that you ask your wife, "What ways do you most like me to soothe you when you've triggered or when you're having a rough day?" Ask for her top five ways! You may already know them, but ask anyway.

ie. hold her, long hugs, sunggling with her, rubbing her hair, brushing her hair, gently massaging her neck or head or back or legs, etc., how does she love to be soothed!



The care necessary for recovery to succeed all starts with cleaning and tending to the wounds created by your adultery and learning how to soothe her, in the ways that SHE most likes..

There are some important steps that cannot be skipped or done half way. Answering questions about your affair is one of them.

I'm not sure how questions and answers about your affair were handled? You may or may not have answered all her questions, I don't know, but I'm guessing it was a hit and miss situation filled with LB's, if it happened at all...

Answering a BS's questions to their satisfaction is how we care for, dress and clean the open wounds our affair created. I hope this makes sense!

I would recommend you offer to sit down with your wife once or twice a week and answer any questions she may still have about your affair. I'd recommend you set a time limit of .... say 30-45 minutes and then agree to stop at that point. If possible, Same days and times every week until she feels she has gotten all of her answers. This may take only a few weeks at this point in your recovery or it may take a month or two... Dunno, but if you skip this step, you'll be re-visiting it at the most inopertune time later in recovery.

You may suggest this step and find your wife has very few questions remaining.... Again, Dunno! But offer it anyway!

Can you do this?

If you do this, there are a few guidelines.


You both must agree to make this time safe, or don't do it at all!

You both must agree to do something to meet each others EN's after the alloted time period! Some RC time th

You both must agree to listen and be respectful... ie. NO LB's

You must remind your wife, after the Q&A time, you're not that same person anymore and that you are learning how to protect her and your marriage. If she will let you, wisper this to her while you hold her close to you.

Again, this is a risky step for both of you and must be approached with great care. If your wife triggers, which often happened when we did this, DO NOT tell her, "we need to just stop". No, No, No! ASK her gently and with great compassion if she wants to continue.

See what your wife has to say about this, and let me know....



What do you think about this suggestion?



Last edited by HerPapaBear; 10/25/11 08:59 PM.




Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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First she likes it when I hold her, run my fingers through her hair, and snuggle. She said she would have to think about it more sort of caught her of guard with the questions
I think you are being very helpful and once again I really appreciate your help and everyone else thank you

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Originally Posted by dtl
First she likes it when I hold her, run my fingers through her hair, and snuggle. She said she would have to think about it more sort of caught her of guard with the questions

Continue to respectfully press in and discuss these things.... Remember, what will soothe her today may not have the same impact in a year from now, so continue to bring this topic up from time to time, OK?


Now what did you think of the other suggestions, in that same post.... Yanno, carving out time for Q&A's about the affair??





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It all makes a lot of sense and even though I don't like talking about I see from you and reading other post that it is something she may need so I will do it

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It might be helpful if you fill this out for your wife especially that your W top EN is O&H. Also, make an appointment for a polygraph to ensure that you're serious about recovery and being completely O&H with her.

I'm sure that posting here is making a difference in your wife's LB$ and it also helps you.

It gives me hope that maybe one day my H will be enthusiastic in working the program too. I'm very happy for you guys smile


Me: BS/FWW - 38
BH/FWH - 36
Married 13 years, together 17 years
Two boys: 9 & 12
OW#1 DDay: PA Nov 26, 2009 (July 2008-July 2009)
OW#2 DDay: PA Nov 29, 2009 (May 2009-Sept 2009)

Me: EA/PA (RA?) June 2010-Sept 2010
His DDay: Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by dtl
It all makes a lot of sense and even though I don't like talking about I see from you and reading other post that it is something she may need so I will do it

I'm glad to head you're willing to do whatever it takes to help your wife heal.

This is a good start!

There is still a great deal of work to do though, OK!






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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