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Agree, the person who in my case put an end to things were not WH family, who are full of enablers, but a person who'd I never met in my life, somebody I exposed to by ACCIDENT!


Me BW (37)
WH (37)
DD1 6 yrs DD2 2 yr

A man who abandons his wife and children because of his infidelity is no price. I can do better then that, I deserve better then that.

The difficulties and struggles of today are but the price we must pay for the accomplishments and victories of tomorrow

Men must be honest with themselves before they can be honest with others. A man who is not honest with himself presents a hopeless case
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Originally Posted by mattyhild
I exposed the affair to friends, family, and the church where she is employed. That's what everyone says to do, right??! Well, it didn't do a thing.

You know what I think is not cool? That when telling this poster that exposure did not work for you...that you left out the fact that this was your WW's third affair and she had already left the home when you finally exposed.

It also sounds like she knew that you were going to expose and had started spinning her story to people before you exposed.

These are critical facts, matty, and actual highlight the importance of exposing before the WS gets too entrenched in the wayward mindset and also before they leave the home. Not that exposure doesn't work.

Had you Found MB on the first affair and done a proper exposure, the outcome probably would have been different.




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Right, waiting to expose will diminish it's effectiveness.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by mattyhild
As for telling him about the affair, I don't think you need to go into detail. That's not always appropriate for a young child. Just say mommy is in a bad relationship that God isn't happy about. Something along those lines. I KNOW PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE WITH ME, BUT OH WELL.

People will disagree with you because that is bad advice that will only lead to confusion. Saying "mommy is in a bad relationship" means nothing to a child and only adds to the confusion. As a parent, it is YOUR JOB to teach your child right from wrong and give them moral guidance. Not doing so is gross dereliction of duty. Children 4 and above know right from wrong and do understand the concept of adultery. Often they have been introduced to the adultery partner and are very confused because they SENSE something is wrong. So when you use weasel words to describe adultery, it just adds to the confusion.

As far as exposure "not working" in your case, no one has ever said it is a 100% guarantee. No one has ever told him there is a 100% guarantee of the affair dying if you expose. Oh no. But what we do know is that of all the recovered marriages on this board, EXPOSURE SAVED THEIR MARRIAGES. It killed my H's affair the day it was exposed. And we do know that if he doesn't expose, he will lose his marriage to an affair.

Exposure is the most potent WEAPON against affairs and as Dr Harley, clinical psychologist who SPECIALIZES in saving marriages from infidelity says:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.

It is very likely that this man's marriage can be saved by exposing this affair and you should encourage him to do so.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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SusieQ-

Guess you didn't know my whole story:

Yes, I should've exposed the 1st affair after she came clean.

The second affair, she immediately stopped when I confronted her (and yes...we still did tell EVERYBODY...so it was exposed even though it stopped).

This current situation...she had already left the house before I even knew she was in an affair! I discovered it 4 months after she left and exposed within a week. So I did the best with what I had.

I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless. But either way, it's the right thing to do.


Me (29) WW (31)
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Originally Posted by mattyhild
I also have young children. My wife left the house 5 months ago and hasn't returned.

By the time it gets this bad, the marriage is probably over and exposure will be of minimal help. In these radio clips, Dr Harley speaks to betrayed husbands who waited so long to expose that they "greatly diminished" their chances of recovery and LOST their wives. Had they exposed EARLY or "IMMEDIATELY" as Dr Harley advises, they might have had a chance.

The longer you WAIT, the less effective exposure is.

So, do you understand now why these posters have a sense of urgency?

Interesting call from a BH who did nothing to save his marriage and has greatly diminished his chances of recovery Part 1 Part 11

In this clip, Ron's wife is leaving him after he covered up her affair for a YEAR, Dr Harley tells him it is hard to save a marriage when you are an "ENABLER" click here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by mattyhild
I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless. But either way, it's the right thing to do.

We do know that the longer a person waits, the less effective it is. In your case, the first affair was never exposed, leading to another affair, and nothing ever done to recover the marriage. In your situation, there was practically a guarantee that she would have another affair. Your wife is a serial cheater in a marriage that NEVER recovered. So it unrealistic to expect that your marriage had much of a chance to begin with.

If I were to estimate it, I would say that exposure kills about 50% of affairs, and the vast majority of those are in marriages where it is exposed VERY SOON while the couple is still living together.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you very much for sharing your perspective, Mattyhild.

Sorry for your circumstances, but I appreciate the length and clarity of your message.

You clearly summarized how I was feeling.

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And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Seems like 90% of the people on here just want to tear the others to shreds. This is the most painful thing anyone could ever go through, yet hardly anyone speaks with COMPASSION. It's so much easier to give directions when it's not your wife or husband (regardless if you've been throught his or not). Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy. Yes, his research is solid but he says himself that not every single situation will end up the same- even if we follow those steps!

This post is about DD and his family. Not me. I was simply showing him support and giving him a few pointers because my situation with the children is similar. I'm not telling him to sit around and wait. I'm giving him steps to start acting. But I thought it would be easier for him to take if it was worded with more love than the previous posts.


Me (29) WW (31)
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You're welcome, DD. I'll be getting off this thread now. It seems to be going nowhere. But if you need anything, send me a message. You, your wife, and child are in my prayers. It's hard, but stay confident and unwavering. He'll walk you through the fire.


Me (29) WW (31)
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Originally Posted by mattyhild
And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Because your marriage never recovered from the FIRST AFFAIR, your wife became a serial CHEATER. To imagine that exposure can magically change a serial cheater is a silly expectation because the problem is not ONE affair, but a way of life. Exposure can't possibly change a person's way of life, that takes a radical committment to a behavior change.

Do you understand? So even if - and this is a BIG IF - exposure killed ONE affair with a serial cheater, it would not change her lifestyle that is the problem..

So coming on here telling DD that exposure "didn't work" for you is to make a false comparison because his wife is not a serial cheater.

Quote
Seems like 90% of the people on here just want to tear the others to shreds. This is the most painful thing anyone could ever go through, yet hardly anyone speaks with COMPASSION. It's so much easier to give directions when it's not your wife or husband (regardless if you've been throught his or not). Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy. Yes, his research is solid but he says himself that not every single situation will end up the same- even if we follow those steps!

You need to get off this guys thread and stop disrupting it. We are here to discuss Dr Harley's principles, not yours. You know how to wreck a marriage. This guy needs help saving his.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by DevotedDad
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2486981

When Should An Affair Be Exposed?
By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
10.28.09

"Some feel that an affair should not be exposed to children. Granted, I would not tell a 3-year old about an affair,....But I would not hesitate to reveal an affair to a child 7 years or older.

Exposure to those between those ages should be a matter of discretion."

I took the advice and read around the postings, and discovered
Dr. Harley says, 3-7 = matter of discretion.


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Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Just different.

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Originally Posted by mattyhild
Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy.
Okay ... so why are you still here?


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by mattyhild
And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Friend, must you shout? And must you disrupt the conversations of others to talk about yourself?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Sure it does. Some opinions are wrong. Some are stupid. All opinions are not right. As far as opinions go, we are here to learn about DR HARLEY'S opinions. We already know how to screw up our marriages, after all.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Sure it does. Some opinions are wrong. Some are stupid. All opinions are not right. As far as opinions go, we are here to learn about DR HARLEY'S opinions. We already know how to screw up our marriages, after all.

Hahaha! I get to correct mel! Actually, opinions are rarely based on facts. What we are discussing is not Dr. Harley's opinions, but proven techniques and methods that he has employed!

Ok.. butting out now... stickout


Celtic Voyager
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Quote
Yes, I should've exposed the 1st affair after she came clean.

The second affair, she immediately stopped when I confronted her (and yes...we still did tell EVERYBODY...so it was exposed even though it stopped).

This current situation...she had already left the house before I even knew she was in an affair! I discovered it 4 months after she left and exposed within a week. So I did the best with what I had.
I think it's important to note that you did not find Marriage Builders until a month ago. Your wife has been through 3 affairs and has been wayward for more than FIVE YEARS. Regardless of whether the affairs ended or not, you were in a crippled marriage for over five years.

I'm sorry you got here so late, but I don't recall anyone being rude or criticizing you for continuing to limp along in a marriage that was fractured by an unremorseful wayward wife. You got top notch advice as well. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped save your M so far. There are NO guarantees. But there is a legion of posters here who will agree that exposure is absolutely critical if an affair is to end. And there is another legion, most who are no longer here, who chose not to expose. They're no longer here because their marriage ended.

DD may have gotten here in time. But our advice to him will be the same advice we gave you. Hopefully it will help.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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To get things back on track....In defense of the original poster, he brings up a very valid question on how to execute plan B and not taken for a ride in the divorce settlement. Given those parameters, here is what I would advise.

1. DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR EXWW. She can't "just" up the kids and move. You have every legal right as she does. WIth a married couple, absent any type of court order concerning custody, neither parent is "default". On father's right's sites, this is called "Radio Silence". It will keep you from chasing your tail and jumping at everything she says. Likewise, don't tell her what you are going to do.

2. Get a new lawyer. You have a paper pusher lawyer who takes the path of least resistance. Telling dad he has no shot is the tell tale sign of this.

3. PROTECT YOURSELF. Filing DV charges is in the first chapter of the WW handbook.
3a. Always have a digital voice recorder on you when you are near exWW. Go ahead and tell her you have it. If she threatens and yells, let her. Keep recording. If she knows you are recording, she can't get you in trouble for recording. Fortunately I have very few face to face interactions with exWW. When I do, I always wear a shirt with a breast pocket and put the recorder in the pocket.

3b. Never block her egress out of the room. If the two of you are in a room together, make sure she is closer to the door.

3c. Don't argue or raise your voice. If she gets mad, tell her "I am leaving the room, I do not want to argue with you." Most WW's will go nutz at this. She will probably follow you and call you names. Let her. Don't respond, walk away. Her yelling at you while you are CCC will be go over like a lead balloon if you go before a judge.

4. If she signs a lease and is getting ready to move out, file a custody petition, and tell her you want to set up a temporary parenting plan prior to her moving out. Make sure this is via email or some other traceable method. Be reasonable. If she moves within the school district, throw out a week on, week off arrangement as your offer.

4. If she does move out without an agreement, immediately file an ex parte custody petition. Ask for the children to be returned to the maritial home as well as supervised visitation for her. Your story to the judge would be this: "your honor, when she told me she was moving I sent over this custody plan (plan showing 50/50, email receipt from her). She did not want to negotiate and just upped and moved. My offer was very reasonable and it ensures the children are involved in both parent's lives as it is clear they love both of us very much"

So far, she is banking on the fact that you will continue to be her doormat and will do what she says. Time to get inside her decision loop and have her react to your moves.


Me BH 35 WW 36
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08

Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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PSUB is the Jedi Master of BH's here who knows how to deal with an insane WW that tried (and still does) every trick in the book against him to include false allegations.

Listen carefully and follow his advice.

PSUB is not with his WXW, but he sees his kids regularly.

I didn't save my marriage (I never followed the advice given here), but I see my kids regularly.

Protect yourself and protect your rights. Start with exposure and be ready for war.

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