Sorry guys...this is going to be a long one. I only recently came to this site. Previously, I've been on another...but think I might need some other help, as well.

Here are highlights from what I posted on that site, a year ago:


Pretty much immediately after I got some help on this site (read His Needs/Her Needs, got some counseling from our minister..which she really didn't follow, and minister really didn't have much time for us....so it dropped) I got INSANELY busy at work, then got promoted in March. The past year has been a complete blur. Needless to say, I tried addressing her Love Language, and her EN's...but it was very difficult (my work hours...her coldness.) Nevertheless...things did seem to get a weeee bit better. We did seem to be trying somewhat.

So�I discover last week, some emails between her and one of the parents at my daughters dance class (after I had told her I wanted to have a talk about our marriage that night). He asked her if it was a divorce talk:
"I'm pretty certain it will be. I don't think either of us can hang in there. He doesn't really even have a good reason for marrying me. I'm sure he liked the idea of me but never actually liked me and most certainly has never "gotten" me. I can only be nice and take crap for so long. I feel like he has taken advantage of that for many years. And I don't like what it has done to me over the years. If you had something solid to begin with then try to fix things, but I don't think we ever had that. I know I've suggested being unhappy but nothing like this. Sorry to unload. "
This is the woman that I sacrificed years of financial stability to make her dream of owning a business come true. We spent four years, draining my salary (going into debt)...so she could own a store. I worked most weekends, after my full-time job...helping her. I sold my boat, to pay for her store. Finally, we got to the point where we HAD to close it. Then, we wanted a house. I told her she had to get a job, for us to afford one. Our youngest was only one...so she wanted to wait. A year later, we bought the house...but she STILL waited another two years to get a job. I had to BEG her to. MORE financial strain. We are on the cusp of FINALLY getting out of this...which I hoped would help us going forward.

I know I haven't dealt with things properly, between us. But I'm SURE I'm not the only one to blame. I reading her comments above, and I can't believe the anger.

She just posted THIS to the guy:
"It sounds like you've has it pretty rough too. I hope you can get through it. Kids do change things. Its even harder when parents can't be on the same page about how to raise kids. And then there are competitions about who does more. so much resentment over the years. a year and a half ago I decided I was done just taking it and just kind of cut off emotionally but that's a really cold way to live. I was hoping to stay together for the kids but we're just setting a bad example for them. When he was yelling at me Saturday during breakfast poor Emily started to cry, ran over to me and buried her face in my shoulder all the while he continued. After he left she asked if we were going to get a divorce. It was really sad. We tried counseling briefly but it didn't and won't work. "

More history rewriting.....my daught DID start crying, and ran over to my wife...AFTER I left the room. I saw her start welling up, and stopped. Nice way to make me the villian. I yelled at her, cause I'd HAD IT with her condescending comments. I was telling her about me getting Groupon alerts, and some of them were funning. She cut me off, mid-story with "did you subscribe to [Big City] or [Our Suburban Town outside of city]?"...in a real short/snotty way. I replied you can ONLY get [Big City]...they don't cater to every little town. "Well...I've seen them for things in town here.".....like I'm a complete idiot. So, I lost it. I told her she does this to me all the time. She'll see me carrying my daughter's comforter upstairs, from the dryer. Her: "What's that?"
Me: [daughter's] comforter.
Her: "Is it dry?"

WTF???!!! No...I thought I'd put a wet comforter on her bed!!

All the freek'n time!!

Just looking for some advice. Again..sorry for the long post. [/Quote]

So..things got increasingly crazy with her emails. I'll post a followup, for how the rest of my week went...leading up to some really CRAZY actions (hers and mine.) I'm completely lost right now. Have to head to work now...but will post again in an hour.

Thanks!

DG, welcome to MArriage Builders. I got through about half of that, but don't have time to read all that. It would be helpful if you could condense that down to about 3-5 paragraphs so more people can help you. We don't need exhaustive details, just the basic outline, to GET it.

It is clear to me that you and your wife have fallen out of love and this is now in a free fall. At every turn in your marriage, instead of resolving the problem, you and your wife made it worse. [two such examples are sleeping apart because you snore and using porn and masturbation because of the lack of sex] If you had learned to use the policy of joint agreement, those issues could have been resolved in way that complemented your marriage instead of harming it.

For example, many couples here have snoring problems. Snoring hurts marriages, but sleeping apart does too. A better solution is to stop snoring. [yes, there are ways] In the issue of not enough sex, the solution is to make sex enjoyable for your spouse and plan it for a time that accommodates you both.

Your marriage can be turned around if you USE this program in its entirety. I would start by reading this article How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage and consider going through the Marriage Builders program. My H and I did this in 2007 after his affair and it transformed our marriage. WE have a passionate, intimate marriage today and have been married about the same length of time as you.

In the online program that MB offers, they assign you a marriage coach who guides your lessons and follows up with you weekly. You also have daily access to Dr Harley over on the private forum if you get stuck. Go http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html and scroll down to the online course.

Traditional counseling rarely does work because they have no idea how to save a marriage. MC has an 84% failure rate and counselors actually have a higher divorce rate than the general population. MB is completely different in that it focuses on restoring the romantic love in your marriage. It has a PLAN to do that.

Here are some articles where Harley explains how he differs from traditional counseling: How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem."

Well...after this post....they began emailing each other about trying to find time together:


At this point...I had shown these emails to a couple of my friends, at work...and posted some of the interaction on the other site. EVERYONE was telling me I HAD to blow this out of the water....RIGHT NOW!!! NOW!!! NOW!!!!

I felt I should wait until something more incriminating occured...but everyone was saying every second I waited....she was getting in deeper. So.....I confronted her.

Me: Do you have something to tell me?
Her: No
Me: Are you sure?
Her: No
Me: {holding up her phone} NOW do you?

You should have seen her completely deflate. Total caught look on her face. I told her she needed to come downstairs and talk about this, or I'd call the OMW immediately, and file for divorce.

She came down, and at first started the "so..now you are spying on me" thing. I told her she couldn't go there...this was about something bigger....she was making plans to meet some other guy. Her next words were "we would never have gone through with it....i'm not that type of person." So, CLEARLY...this wasn't about coffee in the morning.

We talked for a bit, and agreed to see a counselor...but...she never really expressed remorse. Of course...from my first post...you know that she had emotionally shut down on me a year and a half ago....so.....

Post more in a bit....lot has happened since last Thursday.

DG, have you spoken to OMW and explained that your spouses are having an emotional affair? You threatened that to your WW. Never threaten to expose - just DO it. If she tells OM, he'll cover his tracks and start painting you out to be a nutjob jealous husband. His wife will tend to believe him, not you.

Both of which are irrelevant if the wife feels that sex in marriage is unnecessary, or that her own 'issues' surrounding sex trump the husband's need for SF. If the W does not buy into MB concepts, specifically that SF is a valid EN and that she is the only one who can meet it, then time-of-day and pleasure factor aren't going to matter.

None of which matters because DG's wife is now a WW in an EA with one of the dads from their kids' dance class.

DG, I second MelodyLane's advice to condense your original post down to 3-5 paragraphs. Hit the highlights: lack of sex, your financial sacrifices, her rewriting of marital history and constant witchiness, and the incipient EA with this dad from dance class. Adding a sig block to your profile with your ages, how long married, and kids' ages would be a good idea too.

I'd also ask the moderators to move this thread to 'surviving an affair'. Sorry that you're here but you're in the right place.

DG, you should call the OMW and send her the texts. She has a right to know all about this too. You did good confronting your wife!

That goes without saying, which is why I recommended he USE the program in his marriage. Couples who are in love don't usually have this issue at all. A woman needs 2 things to desire sex: the prospect of enjoyment and an emotional attachment to her partner. Here is what Harley says:

"First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear, with or without unresolved childhood experiences. I spend very little time fixing sexual problems these days because most couples I counsel don't have sexual problems after they have learned to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. "

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

I condenced down the first post. Please let me know if it is still too lengthy. I think the detail is important for how/why we are where we are today. But if you don't think so, I can remove more.

Yes..I wound up talking to the OMW on Saturday. She claimed she already knew about her husband trying to "help" my wife, because she seemed so "overwhelmed." I think she only saw the initial texts...not the emails (for some reason they switched from texting to emails, around the 21st). I'm sure no PA occured...and I'm not totally sure it even WAS an EA...but it sure seemed like it was heading that way. Anyway...WW, OMW and OM have now spun this thing around. I noticed a lengthy call to the same area as OM, on Monday (after Dday), last night. I lost it, and woke her up....to explain. She explained to me it was the OMW, who texted her and asked her to call OMW. I actually called the number last night, and it did sound like her voice on voicemail. Either OMW was telling her to bug off; or she is calling my wife to tell her I am such a kook..what can they do to help.

Wife wouldn't tell me the context of the conversation. We have a counselor scheduled for Saturday. Any time I try to talk to her, she comes back with "why can't this wait until Saturday." Part of our conversation last night:
Me: "you show no remorse, what so ever"
Her: "Because I have nothing to be remorseful about."
Me: "you wanted to do something"
Her: "no I didn't"
me: "really??? If not...then why were the first words out of your mouth 'I wouldn't have gone through with it.' And why did you slump completely when I showed you the cell phone."
Her: silence
{sigh}

If she's done nothing wrong and she sees that continued contact with this OM is causing you distress, she should be willing to sever all contact with him and his wife (sadly, because you threatened exposure they were able to get to OMH before you could. She will probably not be a helpful ally for busting up the affair because they successfully gaslighted her.)

Is she willing to sever contact? If not, is she willing to show you all texts and emails? Ask her that and see what her reaction is.

As far as I can tell...she was willing, and has. I've asked her for her phone a couple times...but I can tell she is getting very irritated by it. I've asked her a couple times if she had contact with him...and gotten emphatic "NO WAY." But, I fear she (and possibly OMW) have convinced themselves this was innocent....and I am the one out of line. She has totally regrouped, since I confronted her. I don't know if she is lying....or deluding herself. Or..maybe I am deluding MYSELF. I know I pulled the trigger too soon. I had too many people telling me to not wait. But I also knew there was still room for plausible denial...which is what is happening now. However, I ALSO know what I saw (and what she said) when I confronted her. This WASN'T about morning coffee.

Stop asking her to see her phone. Put spyware on it. And check your cell phone bill.

You'll also want to consider a VAR for her car. And get keylogger on the computer PDQ. Does she have an iphone? You can sneak an app on there that will track her location, as well. You'll need to have a few minutes alone with the phone to do this, but you're a smart guy. You can figure that out (she has to take a shower eventually, right? )

Yes, you were a little premature in exposing because you didn't have much in the way of a smoking gun when you did it. But the main problem with your exposure was that you warned her in advance. That gave her and OM ample time to devise a pre-emptive strike. Your exposure was also severely limited, but that can work in your favor now.

Get those snooping tools rolling. If you find something incriminating, don't say anything to her. Bring the info here and we'll help you decide what you need to do with it.

And don't spend a lot of time asking her if she's still in contact with OM. Let her think you've put that behind you. She'll get sloppy if she thinks you're not following up on her and OM. That's when she'll slip.

I posted the last few emails, earlier post. I'm not crazy, am I? Did it look totally innocent? I know there is no smoking gun....but how far was I going to let that go? yeah...plausible denial threshold was what I was waiting for...but I had EVERYBODY screaming ACT. I just lost it. I am a reactive kind of guy. That's my job. I need help determining when NOT to react....which is so hard for me.

Oh, we're not suggesting you don't act. We're saying you need to act in a smart, well-planned way. And we'll help you do that.

No, you're not crazy. It is entirely inappropriate for her to be texting or emailing another man AT ALL. (Okay, she can email or text her dad. )

This is independent behavior on your WW's part at best. Independent behavior is toxic to a marriage. Especially when it involves commiserating over how bad their marriages are.

But I do believe she was/is well on her way to a full-blown physical affair.

DG, steel yourself. You are going to have to do some snooping without her knowing. You're going to have to behave as though all is well. Don't blow it by tipping your hand that you're snooping. Don't tell her about this website. Don't try to educate her on the moral shakiness of her behavior. None of that.

You've got to nail down confirmation that the EA is on-going. Then we'll help you go from there.

Well...his last email he sent her, after what I posted earlier, was:

"Gym sometime tomorrow. Day off for me. Ttyl"

I was petrified she would respond..."oh..maybe I'll take off as well." Emotionally.....I think that would have driven a stake through my heart! I have had to put the stiff, upper-lip forward for nearly two years of cold shoulder. Meanwhile, working 70-80 hrs/week...incredible stress (both work, and just getting by)....I was (and still am) on my very last reserves of holding it together.

Oh...and THEN...my car broke down last night.

Speaking of working too many hours: you need to figure out something that will give you less time at work and more time at home. Working that many hours isn't good for your marriage.

Start thinking about that: can you refinance your house? Sell off something - motorcycle, boat, extra car. Cut your food budget? Clothing budget? Think hard and see where you can pare down the expenses. Working all those hours won't be much comfort if you're doing it for your wife and marriage. You could lose both.

You are in good hands here. Trust in it. If it sounds counter intuitive just do it anyhow. Your M is at stake. Know that you caught this EA early and it may be a pivot to the rest of your M. Every step from here on is critical.

Well the hours were mostly because I got promoted...and it took me 4 months to hire my replacement...and I'm still getting him up to speed. For the past 6 months, I've been working TWO very stressful jobs. That is now coming to an end....and I'll be back to a dull roar. I've already started getting home earlier ...and then connecting to work, after everyone goes to bed...to finish up.

As for finances....I just got one raise...expecting another in 5 months...plus a large bonus. This will allow us (finally) to get ahead of all our bills...big time. No more financial stress. All this year, I knew that March will be a huge stress-relief month for us....not to mention no more EN dampener, from constantly watching spending/bills/etc. I figured at THAT point, we would really be able to start focusing on us. That appears to be too late. OTOH....a divorce would rob us of that new-found stability. Paying for counseling won't help either. I was hoping THAT could wait until March as well. {sigh}

No, NOT too late at all DG.

You have a real good chance here to save this marriage but you'll need to pay close attention & LISTEN to the advice of the members. Much of it will seem very counter-intuitive. And when you get a plan in place you will feel much more in control. You won't have these desperate panic attacks.

Hang in there. You're doing great...

Trust me...I don't want to fly off the handle any more. I'm digging a hole so fast, I'll have to brush up on my Chinese....not that Tsing Tao isn't a good beer...but....