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I'm the BS. H is the WS (or FWS). Although, he claims he's not your typical wayward but I have my doubts. More on that later...

Married 10 years. Living together for 18. I'm 40, he's 42. 3 children, D17, D15 and S8.

D-day 9/9/11

Backstory:

12 years ago we went through a difficult period. My H said he was no longer in love with me and moved out. A few weeks later, he moved back in but continued to blame all of our problems on me. He moved out again a month later and then came home a few weeks later. Finally on the third attempt to leave, I asked him to move out and wouldn't let him return until we sought counselling. The MC we saw said it was clear I was not to blame for all of our issues and that my H seemed to lack a commitment to a healthy R. He also added that while he was pro-marriage, I deserved better.

However, counseling improved our R and we planned our wedding, but 3 months prior, during an argument, H announced he did not love me enough to marry me. He changed his mind 3 days later but the damage was done. I was hesitant to go forward with the wedding but since we had children together, I decided that it was in everyone's best interest.

Our R started to go downhill again about 3-4 yrs ago. I didn't feel my H was meeting my needs, as he tended to be selfish about his activities and I felt he put very little effort into our relationship, except when he wanted SF. I tried many times to speak to him about my feelings but was ignored, or he would react with anger and insist that he did lot for me and therefore I should be happy. Eventually, after years of trying to speak to him, I withdrew. I even gave my H the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech. I think in my confusion and hurt, I had hoped he would finally pick up the slack and start trying, as I felt I had been the only one trying alone for too long. I stopped wanting to meet his SF needs, not out of anger, but because I no longer felt any emotional connection. SF was now once every 6 months.

My H said he got very angry about the lack of SF but never spoke to me about his anger or his needs and continued to pretend he was happy. Then, he met some skank at a hockey game in March 2010 and when she showed interest, he decided to look her up a couple weeks later. The PA began right away because she had no qualms about sleeping with a married man that she just met. (OW is also married and her H had an A which is why she started the A with mine.) He said OW was the first woman to hit on him in a way that made her intentions clear and that it could have been anyone. He said she didn't compare to me in anyway and that bothered him often, but that she was willing and that's all that mattered in the end.

Unbeknownst to me, the PA went on for approx. 6 months. During that time my H became hostile and disrespectful towards me, and treated our children with disrespect as well. Our oldest D came to me and said that her father was an angry, impatient man and she was upset with him for calling her immature when clearly he had his own issues of immaturity.

He ended the A in September/2010 because he wanted to work on our M, but now admits he didn't actually work on our M. In fact, he became so belligerent and mean, that I began to look into separation and divorce. Again, I tried to talk to him and he dismissed my concerns or issues. I felt trapped and unhappy but decided to hang in there for the sake of our children.

My H resumed the PA in mid-January/11 as he decided our M was done (but didn't bother to tell me). In Feb, OW told him she loved him. In March, he decided he was going to leave me because he said she made him feel wanted and stroked his ego.

In early May, he told me he wanted a divorce and would be moving out in June. The next day, he said he quickly realized that he didn't want a D and that's when he really began to panic.

I asked him repeatedly if there was someone else. He of course denied it. His father had an A on his mother, married his affair partner, then tried to cheat on her with my H's mother, who would have nothing to do with it. He left his second marriage by starting another A which he admitted to us and is currently still with that woman. My H always claimed his father made horrible choices and that he would never be like him. This is why I never suspected an affair. His self-righteousness regarding his father's mistakes had me fooled into believing he would never follow in his footsteps but that's exactly what he did...

Anyway, after realizing what a huge mistake he had made, my H immediately tried to break it off with OW, but this time she threatened to call me. My H believed that if I knew about the A, I would leave without a second thought, considering I was already unhappy with our M, and had often said in previous conversations that cheating was a dealbreaker for me. He figured the M was over either way so he might as well keep it up with OW. But then he would get depressed again because he didn't actually want a D but wasn't actually certain I still loved him. He said it was never a choice between us. He knew he wanted me but that he had ruined us.

It became obvious my H was falling apart. Drinking too much, sleeping a lot, crying often, acting depressed and distant, then affectionate and loving. He kept asking me repeatedly what I needed from him to be happy so it seemed to me he wanted the marriage but then he would act withdrawn again. He says now it was because he couldn't see a way out that wouldn't result in him losing me and that he was a mess over what he had done to us.

He tried again in June and July to end the A but OW kept threatening to call me. Then he began to make excuses as to why he couldn't see her as often hoping she would grow impatient and end it on her own. He said he only ever saw her 3 times a month but now it was down to 2. Instead, she began to get very angry and we started receiving hang-up calls at our home during the summer. (I feel foolish now because the thought never crossed my mind that it was an OW.)

During this time of confusion, my H picked up a copy of His Needs/Her Needs. He said it made him realize why he had an A and also that he had not been meeting my needs either. He said the book also confirmed why he never felt good about his R with OW because he knew a relationship that began as an A was one built on lies and deception. He said he also began to realize what a selfish unstable person OW was and that he had attracted her because he was acting very selfish at the time as well.

But he was afraid he had damaged our M beyond repair.

In Mid-August, he realized that OW would not go away without blowing the whole thing up. He said he had been going through the motions with her since telling me he wanted a D and just couldn't do it anymore as she was becoming more annoying, needy and pathetic. He sought counselling in an effort to figure out how to confess the A to me and to determine if our M had a chance of being saved. After he began the counselling sessions, (I found the receipts so I know he went to C) he stopped seeing OW completely but continued to promise via text he would see her again all the while knowing he never would. Her calls to the house continued (she used a blocked # so I thought it was a telemarketer).

In early September, after H hadn't seen her for 3 weeks, OW began to realize he had no intention of seeing her again and H finally got the courage to tell her it was done. She became hysterical and said it all wasn't fair to her and kept crying, begging and threatening. He said he knew he had to tell me before she did, but he was terrified.

Later that day, OW called our home and hung up but this time, didn't block her number. I wondered who it was and Googled her but after looking at her photo, I never suspected an A with such a plain woman.

The next day, I noticed the number was deleted and then I became suspicious. I asked H why he deleted the number and he confessed. Then broke down and sobbed. I asked if he was leaving for her and he said it was over and done and that it had been for awhile, but that she had been threatening him. I was stunned. Numb. It was like watching the horror movie of my life play out in front of me with me as the unfortunate star.

And that's our backstory. I'm not sure what I want anymore and that's why I'm here. I don't trust him. Obviously. But he claims he's different. That he wasn't always a horrible man who made selfish choices and that he got lost by his hurt and anger and that he deserves a second chance.

The initial pain, the shock and the numbness have subsided, and I find myself angry. Very angry. I don't know what to do with that. The anger is so strong. I was unhappy in my M and tried to tell him many many times so we could work on it or end it. He ignored my pleas for years until he was the one that was unhappy and then he tried to punish me. He admits the A was started to hurt me. He purposely set out to hurt me.

I don't know where to go from here but he wants me to try. He's asked me to try. He said it was never a choice between me and OW. That I am better in every way and once his anger subsided, that he knew he still loved me. That I am the love of his life.

He said he's not addicted. That he's not in a fog. That he never went through withdrawal with OW because his feelings for her were never that strong or real and that he wanted her gone a long time ago. I don't know what to believe...

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I'm sorry this is all so long but I'm not very good at summarizing. I will try harder in that respect once I have all the details out...

I should also mention that the night of H's confession, our D15 overheard and told our other children. Our kids are extremely upset and our teenage D's are not really speaking to him even 2 months later. Our oldest thinks I should D him so this has affected them deeply.

And OW did not go away quietly and I'm concerned she has bunny boiler potential. I believe she was hoping I would kick him out immediately and he would come crawling back to her.

Anyway, she called our home 10 times in a row the day after D-day until he answered and screamed at her and told her she had no right to call our home and that it was done. She called again. More screaming.

Then she texted him with more begging and pleading. He again said not to call, text or email him ever again. She called his cell the following day and left a pathetic message about how he made promises to her and he wasn't being fair to her. He didn't call her back but texted her again to say to stop trying to contact him. She didn't listen and once again texted him so he sent a NC email from a temporary email he set up stating that he loved me and she was a huge mistake, and one he would regret forever. He gave me the password.

And I exposed to OWH's but I don't think he really cares about her or what she does so he's not interested in watching what she does...

Things were going well between us and we were spending a lot of time together talking and connecting. OW seemed to have disappeared... We both read His Needs/Her Needs, 5 LL's and SAA. H and I were also going through a very intense hysterical bonding phase (which I couldn't figure out until I read about it on the forum) and SF was 2-3 times a day. H was also being transparent, giving me his cell phone anytime I asked, email passwords, allowed me to look at cell phone records, search his computer, etc. He texted me often even if he was just going to drop off the kids and would send me photos from his location at all times.

Then 2 weeks ago, I was checking his phone and I noticed he had Googled OW. I was very upset. He said she had started texting him again about 10 days prior but he was afraid to tell me because things were going so well with us and he knew I was still ambivalent so he didn't want to add fuel to the fire. He said he deleted her texts which asked him to call. He kept deleting her texts and ignoring them but then finally realized she might eventually text while I was looking at his phone so he decided that he needed to respond and tell her to stop. Since he deleted her texts, he Googled her to get her cell #. The link did indicate that he was looking for her #. Obviously this was a huge set-back for me.

He claims it was a horrible error in judgment in not telling me about her texts but that it in no way was he trying to get back with her. He asked me to set up a poly if I don't believe him. He said he knows it looks bad depending on how you interpret it, but he is not addicted nor in a fog. That it was done to protect me from being triggered but that he realizes now it has set me back because now I am wondering what the texts said. He said all he said was there was nothing to talk about and he would not be calling her again. EVER. He said she begged but he was firm. She texted again a couple days later and again he was firm that it was done and he hasn't heard from her since. He said that he will never be in a relationship with that horrible woman again and even if I kick him out tomorrow, she will not be an option. That he would never again be the kind of man that would be with the kind of woman who would sink so low as to get involved with a married man and actually beg him to leave his family for her. He claims she's crazy and unstable and he doesn't want that in his life.

He says all the right things but I'm paranoid.

However unbeknownst to him, I changed the settings on his phone to save messages on the SIM card so I have been checking and there have been no texts from her since.

I think those are all the details and so I'm wondering if this recent incident a couple weeks ago is why I am feeling so angry and unsure about everything right now.

I don't want to go through a false recovery.

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Others will be along soon to help. Your post is very long, and I recommend cutting it back to just a few paragraphs to make it easier to read.

This is a really good website with some very good down-to-earth no-nonsense posters. Listen to what they have to say. But in the meantime....

You are NOT paranoid. Your world has been shattered and you are trying to survive the horrible damage. Dr. H. has done extensive research on adultery and concluded that this is one of the most painful experiences people will undergo, to include rape and even death of a child. So of course you are reeling and hurting and extra-sensitive to any breaches of trust. You have completely lost any trust in your H. This is the normal fall-out from this form of betrayal.

Save the evidence you have collected in case it is needed later.

Don't let your H know about this website. Always log out completely and consider erasing the browser history as well.

Is the OW married? If so, her H needs to know immediately. It's good that your children know what is going in their home. They will put some pressure on their father for what's he done to the family.

You should also tell your family and friends. This is done for a couple of reasons. One is to get support for you. The other is for the purpose of accountability. People who care will pressure your H to completely end his infidelity.

The first thing your H should have done after sending the letter of No Contact is to make it impossible for the OW to ever reach him again. Change email, delete FB account, change telephone number. Until that's done, a gigantic hole exists in your recovery.

He must never contact the OW in any form for the rest of his life. This includes googling her. Many people have had to leave their jobs or even move away to avoid contact with the AP (Affair Partner.)

The next condition of recovery is that your H needs to be completely transparent with you. All passwords shared, cell phone switched whenever you want, all time and money accounted for.

You should create a list of Extraordinary Precautions for your H to adhere to. These precautions would include no female friends and no intimate conversations with women. You can get help with this. These are absolutely necessary to help prevent further infidelities.

The final condition is your H's commitment to rebuild the romantic love in your marriage. Just compensation for his adultery is that the marriage must be better than it was before. You both must learn to avoid Love Busters (LBs) and learn to meet each other's emotional needs (ENs.)

Raise your bar high for recovery. Your H must earn your forgiveness if he wants to keep his family intact.

We signed up for the online course, because of the accountability program, but if you can't afford that right now, at least get the books, Love Busters and HNHN, along with the workbook.

You should also get a copy of Surviving an Affair and read it thoroughly.

What you don't want to end up with is a crippled version of your pre-A marriage.


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DDay Nov 2010

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I think those are all the details and so I'm wondering if this recent incident a couple weeks ago is why I am feeling so angry and unsure about everything right now.

Well, it took long enough, but you finally got to your point, I think. YES, you are/should be concerned with the evidence of a freshening of your husband's affair. (More below)

I don't want to go through a false recovery.

You already have - several times if my math is correct!

Now to the point of my answer - Are you finally fed up enough with the selfish, immature and disrespectful crud that you're married to to do what has to be done? It seems to me you have not demonstrated any "backbone" to eforce what is rigorous with him in the entirety of your relationship. The "let's just get past this" mindset you have related in your own posting is NOT a good indicator that you are ready.

There will be great disruption in your life if you start to fight this fight now, after 18 years of acquiescence, so let's check the support factors -

  • Are you gainfully employed?
  • Do you have a family support structure to assist you?
  • Will you LISTEN to the expert consellors here, even as some of their advice might seem at first counter-intuitive?
The MB affair-fighting plan is your best chance of saving your marriage, and the MB principles of creating a strong marriage can follow directly.

But it will not be easy, nor guaranteed. Are you willing to FIGHT?

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....and oh, yes - this thread is mis-located. Click the "notify" button at the bottom of this note and ask to have the thread moved to "Surviving an Affair."

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Welcome to Marriage Builders, Ellie,

Darn. Every time I read that a wayward think's he's 'not typical', I always bet that THIS time the wayward will be right. Lost again smile

Your WH is a garden variety wayward. It's great that he wants to recover and that you want that as well, but it looks like some tightening up of his avenues of contact is needed.

First, have you ordered Surviving an Affair? You can get the book on this website or at Amazon.

Have the two of you filled out the emotional needs questionnaire on this site? Check the links in the yellow box on your right.

It sounds like the two of you need to close off all the potential avenues of contact and you need to require a few things for your sense of safety. Some suggestions:
1. Change both of your cell phone numbers.
2. Change your home phone number.
3. Change all email addresses.
4. Equip all electronics that he owns with spyware (that he does not know about)See our Operation Investigate forum for ideas.
5. Make sure you have all of his passwords to every password-protected thing he owns.
6. GPS his car
7. VAR his car
8. Remove the internet from his phone. You can't google someone if you don't have Google.

**Ask him to sit for a polygraph so you know you have all your questions truthfully answered.**

Most of these things need to be done on the sly so that he is not aware of them. I wouldn't tell him about this website right now, either. You're still pretty early in recovery. If he relapses you don't want him to know about the spying tools we talk about here.

Your WH sounds like he truly wants to recover, but the google thing bothers me. Tighten all that up and have him sit for the poly.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/19/11 09:02 AM.

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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
I don't want to go through a false recovery.

I bumped *** this thread *** for you to read.

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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
I should also mention that the night of H's confession, our D15 overheard and told our other children. Our kids are extremely upset and our teenage D's are not really speaking to him even 2 months later. Our oldest thinks I should D him so this has affected them deeply.

And .... What has this WF (wayward father) done to repair those father-child relationships? Nothing much, right?



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And I exposed to OWH's but I don't think he really cares about her or what she does so he's not interested in watching what she does...

You never know .... it's always good to expose to the other spouse.

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Things were going well between us and we were spending a lot of time together talking and connecting. OW seemed to have disappeared... We both read His Needs/Her Needs, 5 LL's and SAA. H and I were also going through a very intense hysterical bonding phase (which I couldn't figure out until I read about it on the forum) and SF was 2-3 times a day. H was also being transparent, giving me his cell phone anytime I asked, email passwords, allowed me to look at cell phone records, search his computer, etc. He texted me often even if he was just going to drop off the kids and would send me photos from his location at all times.

OK

Quote
Then 2 weeks ago, I was checking his phone and I noticed he had Googled OW. I was very upset. He said she had started texting him again about 10 days prior but he was afraid to tell me because things were going so well with us and he knew I was still ambivalent so he didn't want to add fuel to the fire. He said he deleted her texts which asked him to call. He kept deleting her texts and ignoring them but then finally realized she might eventually text while I was looking at his phone so he decided that he needed to respond and tell her to stop. Since he deleted her texts, he Googled her to get her cell #. The link did indicate that he was looking for her #. Obviously this was a huge set-back for me.

The part in red .... is bullcrap. WH is OK with hiding things he thinks you should not know. This is VERY bad. redflag

Ask WH these questions:
"When is it OK to lie to your wife?"
"When is it OK to hide facts from your wife?"
"When is it OK to lie by omission to your wife?"



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He claims it was a horrible error in judgment in not telling me about her texts but that it in no way was he trying to get back with her.

Refer back to the questions above.
Add this one:
"When is it OK to keep secrets between you and OW?"



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He asked me to set up a poly if I don't believe him. He said he knows it looks bad depending on how you interpret it, but he is not addicted nor in a fog.

Well, because he's not in an addictive fog, that makes him a CLEAR HEADED SNEAKY CREEP !!!

.... and that's bad redflag


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That it was done to protect me from being triggered but that he realizes now it has set me back because now I am wondering what the texts said. He said all he said was there was nothing to talk about and he would not be calling her again. EVER. He said she begged but he was firm. She texted again a couple days later and again he was firm that it was done and he hasn't heard from her since. He said that he will never be in a relationship with that horrible woman again and even if I kick him out tomorrow, she will not be an option. That he would never again be the kind of man that would be with the kind of woman who would sink so low as to get involved with a married man and actually beg him to leave his family for her. He claims she's crazy and unstable and he doesn't want that in his life.

He says all the right things but I'm paranoid.

He does NOT say all the right things.
He's obfuscating and lying his butt off and he's NOT even foggy any more.

He's blaming his own adultery choice on OW's character.
OW is "that sort of woman" .... and he won't fall for "that" again.
WTH??? MrRollieEyes

PLEASE DO NOT FALL FOR THAT !

You are not paranoid. You are (rightfully) suspicious. Your bullcrap meter is sounding.




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However unbeknownst to him, I changed the settings on his phone to save messages on the SIM card so I have been checking and there have been no texts from her since.

Not from that phone, anyway.
Put a GPS on his vehicle too.


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I think those are all the details and so I'm wondering if this recent incident a couple weeks ago is why I am feeling so angry and unsure about everything right now.

Your bullcrap meter is correct.

Bless you and your family.

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EllieB -

About OW .....

Quote
She called his cell the following day and left a pathetic message about how he made promises to her and he wasn't being fair to her.

This level of crazy means WH made "future together" promises to OW.
Lots of times.

Have you gotten the truth about these promises from WH?
This was NOT "crazy" OW's imagination.
He made promises.
Find out what they were.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I don't want to go through a false recovery.

You already have - several times if my math is correct!

I'm not sure how I've gone through a false recovery many times. I didn't know about the A in the summer so I never knew about the constant break-ups with OW. If I had known about the A in May when H dropped the D bomb, I would have asked H to leave our home. Trust me, I'm not the type to compete for a man. He would have been gone and I would have gone straight to my lawyer. There would have been no Plan A or Plan B for me.

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Now to the point of my answer - Are you finally fed up enough with the selfish, immature and disrespectful crud that you're married to to do what has to be done? It seems to me you have not demonstrated any "backbone" to eforce what is rigorous with him in the entirety of your relationship. The "let's just get past this" mindset you have related in your own posting is NOT a good indicator that you are ready.

Okay, clearly my posting is not indicating my true personality because that is not who I am at all. When we went through marital problems 12 years ago, I was hardly a doormat. My H moved out twice to live with his dad for 3 weeks each time. The third time he threatened to do this, I kicked him out of our home for 6 months until he committed to counselling. I was hardly a woman without a backbone. I packed up all his clothing and said if he wanted to live with his father so badly, go for it. He tried to convince me to let him stay and I said you moved out twice and threatened to end our R, so the third time you're out.

As for the A, the reason my H didn't want to tell me even though he knew he had to in order to remain in the M was because he knew I would end the M. The only reason I didn't kick him out when I finally found out was because I read HNHN and realized that I had not been meeting his needs either. (I read the book prior to finding out about the A).

If it wasn't for HNHN, I wouldn't even be considering forgiving him or remaining in this M. He would have been out and I would have put a retainer down on my lawyer, whom I saw immediately when he threatened me with D in May. No backbone? You've got the wrong lady. My H said he was terrified of me finding out because he would have bet money I wouldn't even consider giving him a second chance. I'm still not sure I want to but I'm at least considering it due to what I've read on this forum.

And when he threatened me with D, I didn't cry, beg or plead. I offered to pack up his clothing and to go through and divide the kitchen items to which he responded by breaking down and crying. I also suggested he buy a place instead of renting as it would be a better investment. He also responded to this suggestion with tears as well. Every time I suggested we tell the kids about the D, he always wanted to delay it. Doormat I am not. Nor do I beg, cry or plead with a man to remain in a R with me like OW.

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
  • Are you gainfully employed?
  • Do you have a family support structure to assist you?
  • Will you LISTEN to the expert consellors here, even as some of their advice might seem at first counter-intuitive?
The MB affair-fighting plan is your best chance of saving your marriage, and the MB principles of creating a strong marriage can follow directly.

But it will not be easy, nor guaranteed. Are you willing to FIGHT?

Yes, to all of the above.

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
First, have you ordered Surviving an Affair?

Yes, I have read SAA.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Have the two of you filled out the emotional needs questionnaire on this site?

H and I have both done this...

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
It sounds like the two of you need to close off all the potential avenues of contact and you need to require a few things for your sense of safety. Some suggestions:
1. Change both of your cell phone numbers. HIS IS A WORK CELL. SHE NEVER HAD MINE
2. Change your home phone number. BLOCKED OW'S #
3. Change all email addresses. SET UP FILTERS TO BLOCK HER
4. Equip all electronics that he owns with spyware (that he does not know about)See our Operation Investigate forum for ideas.
5. Make sure you have all of his passwords to every password-protected thing he owns. ALREADY DONE
6. GPS his car
7. VAR his car
8. Remove the internet from his phone. You can't google someone if you don't have Google.

I am working on the rest of the suggestions but I've been concerned about the charges showing up on our CC bill as we share all cards. He's read HNHN and knows I read message boards. I also found a link to this site bookmarked on his computer (from months ago) so I have to be careful as I don't want him to know that I can check up on him. I want him to believe he is safe so if he's still in an active A, I will catch him.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
**Ask him to sit for a polygraph so you know you have all your questions truthfully answered.**

He told me to set this up so this is next on my list.



Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Your WH sounds like he truly wants to recover, but the google thing bothers me. Tighten all that up and have him sit for the poly.

Yes, the google thing bothers me too.

I also wanted to you thank-you to you all for responding to my posts and for taking the time to help. I truly appreciate all the advice and suggestions.

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1. Change both of your cell phone numbers. HIS IS A WORK CELL. SHE NEVER HAD MINE Change his number anyway. He can let his business contacts know that his number is changed.
2. Change your home phone number. BLOCKED OW'S # Change it anyway. She can call from another number.
3. Change all email addresses. SET UP FILTERS TO BLOCK HER Change it anyway. She can email from another email address.

I'd get the other items done, as well.

Does he have FaceBook?


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
...She texted again a couple days later and again he was firm that it was done and he hasn't heard from her since. ...
Ellie, why does she still have his text number in the first place? Why has he not changed all his phone numbers (including your home phone #) and e-mail accounts? There is no excuse for not arranging this. After my affair, after a few weeks of frittering around, I even got my place of employment to change my number & delete it from the operators' directory. I repeat, there is no excuse whatsoever for his not arranging those changes.

Originally Posted by EllieBlue
...He said that he will never be in a relationship with that horrible woman again and even if I kick him out tomorrow, she will not be an option. That he would never again be the kind of man that would be with the kind of woman who would sink so low as to get involved with a married man and actually beg him to leave his family for her. He claims she's crazy and unstable and he doesn't want that in his life. ...
Action talks, while bull**** walks. You tell your WH that it's time to put his money where his mouth is, by changing all his phone numbers & email addresses and giving you complete password access to all the new numbers & e-mails, and basically stop living a secret life in any respect. If he waffles or resists, then you tell him what my wife told me on the day I confessed my affair. (See below, 2nd quote in red text.)

Either he's serious about protecting you & his marriage -- in which case he'll bend over backward to help you feel emotionally safe -- or else he's not serious -- in which case you don't want a guy like him around anyhow. If he's sincere about wanting to build a better marriage with you, then why not give the two of you the best chance to do that with as little prospect of intrusion by OW as possible? If he's sincere, it's a no-brainer for him.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
[quote=maritalbliss] It sounds like the two of you need to close off all the potential avenues of contact and you need to require a few things for your sense of safety. Some suggestions:
1. Change both of your cell phone numbers. HIS IS A WORK CELL. SHE NEVER HAD MINE
2. Change your home phone number. BLOCKED OW'S #
3. Change all email addresses. SET UP FILTERS TO BLOCK HER
[quote=maritalbliss]
Ellie, why would your husband stop at half-measures? Why would you agree to stopping at half-measures?

You've said you read "Surviving An Affair"... well alright, tell me about the stuff you read around page 70 or so: Was it called "Semi-decent precautions" Or "Precautions to take as long as it's convenient"? No, it isn't, is it? It's called Extraordinary Precautions. If you both want to kill an affair & make sure it stays dead, then you need your husband to take precautions that may indeed be extraordinary & inconvenient for him or for you both.

I'm sorry, but that's the hand he dealt you & himself when he had an affair. You're no longer dealing with an ideal world -- that ship has sailed. You must deal with reality. The reality, for a guy recovering from an affair -- and I know what I'm talkin' about, because I was such a guy -- is this: If he wants to give himself the best shot of saving his marriage -- which requires extraordinary effort by him to help you feel safe -- then he will do these things with a smile on his face & a sense of determined urgency in his step -- out of remorse & out of love & care & protection for you.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by Pepperband
What has this WF (wayward father) done to repair those father-child relationships? Nothing much, right?

He's apologized in person as well as written the oldest two letters expressing remorse and explaining how wrong he was for the A. He also stated in the letters that he loves me very much and he loves our family very much and he will never again do anything so disgusting and immoral. And he texts them often to remind them that he loves them even though they don't respond.

As for the youngest, he talked to him and promised that he would never see OW again. He's also told him that a real man does not treat his W in that manner.

He said he will carry around for the rest of his life the guilt for what he has done to our children. He is worried our D's will never trust men and he is worried about our S because he has expressed fear that we will D.

He has told me that if I don't believe he would never see the skank again because he loves me and not her, then I should also know that he would never see her again because of his love for our kids. He said that they have already lost respect for him and he would rather kill himself than lose it completely.




Originally Posted by Pepperband
WH is OK with hiding things he thinks you should not know. This is VERY bad. redflag

Ask WH these questions:
"When is it OK to lie to your wife?"
"When is it OK to hide facts from your wife?"
"When is it OK to lie by omission to your wife?"
[/font]

I have asked him all the questions above and he said it's never OK. He claims he will tell me if she contacts him again. He says he has a fear of conflict which is what got him into this mess in the first place because he should have just had the guts to admit he was hurt and angry, instead of starting an A to punish me.


Originally Posted by Pepperband
Refer back to the questions above.
Add this one:
"When is it OK to keep secrets between you and OW?"

I did ask him this as well. I said that he was keeping me out of their secret circle. He said I now know everything so there are no longer a secret circle that I am not a part of. Yes, I need proof of this...


Originally Posted by Pepperband
Well, because he's not in an addictive fog, that makes him a CLEAR HEADED SNEAKY CREEP !!!

.... and that's bad redflag

Yes, I wonder if I am living with a monster sometimes. A sneaky lying manipulative monster.



Originally Posted by Pepperband
He does NOT say all the right things.
He's obfuscating and lying his butt off and he's NOT even foggy any more.

He's blaming his own adultery choice on OW's character.
OW is "that sort of woman" .... and he won't fall for "that" again.
WTH??? MrRollieEyes

He doesn't blame her. Only that he NOW understands that any W who would want a MM isn't a W worth having, nor is the man who would be in an R with that kind of W, which is why he claims he will never be that kind of dishonorable stupid man again.

He's made it clear that she didn't force him or tempt him. He made the choice because I was not having sex with him and he didn't think I loved or cared about him or our M. But that was NOT an excuse because he was not meeting my needs either and I made the choice not to have an A even though I have had more opportunities than him.

He has said that he attracted a selfish loser because he was a selfish loser when he met her. He said her horrible character was a direct reflection of the man he was at the time. He attracted what he was putting out there - angry, petty, selfish and stupid.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Put a GPS on his vehicle too.

I will.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Your bullcrap meter is correct.

Bless you and your family.

Thank-you.

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
This level of crazy means WH made "future together" promises to OW.
Lots of times.

Have you gotten the truth about these promises from WH?
This was NOT "crazy" OW's imagination.
He made promises.
Find out what they were.

He told her he was leaving me and moving out of our home. He kept promising her he would move out. First it was June, then July, then August. By September she figured out he was lying to her which is why she apparently lost it.

He said he realized he had no intention of actually leaving after he told me that he was going to which is why he tried to break up with OW immediately.

He said the continued promises were in hopes she would grow impatient and go away without blowing the whole thing up. When that didn't happen, he sought counselling in an effort to figure out how to get out of it and still save our M.

He said there were no other promises aside from leaving me so they could see each other more often. He has given me her contact info and said I can ask her myself. That he doesn't fear me talking to her or her H because I now know everything but I don't want to speak to that lying skank.

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I will ask him to change his work cell. He suggested changing the home # but I said I was fine with just blocking her number. She hasn't tried to call here again but I understand now why I should do this...

I will do the other items. I have been reading the Operation Investigate forum.

And no, he does not have Facebook. I do but I gave him access. He admits he is very worried I could have a revenge affair because he knows I get hit on a lot.

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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
I will ask him to change his work cell. He suggested changing the home # but I said I was fine with just blocking her number. She hasn't tried to call here again but I understand now why I should do this...

I will do the other items. I have been reading the Operation Investigate forum.

And no, he does not have Facebook. I do but I gave him access. He admits he is very worried I could have a revenge affair because he knows I get hit on a lot.
Good. I don't think it need be an occasion for argument between you & H. You're supposed to be on the same team here, fighting for your marriage. Put in those terms, changing those numbers is an easy thing for him to say "yes" to.

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Thanks for chiming in, GloveOil. I've read a lot of your posts and find them very informative.

I have all passwords for his email, computer and cell phone. As for the email address, it is his name at his company so it can't be changed but I have the password so I have access.

He has said he has no interest in a second life ever again. The guilt was killing him and he started falling apart once he realized that he did not want our M to end. This was obvious to me but I had no clue it was because he was having an affair. I thought he was having a nervous breakdown because he looked terrible, got numerous eye infections, was gaining weight, slept a lot and often broke down and sobbed in my arms. He said his A was an exit affair and then he realized he still loved me and was just angry. That's when the whole mess came crashing down on his head.

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Originally Posted by GloveOil
If he waffles or resists, then you tell him what my wife told me on the day I confessed my affair. (See below, 2nd quote in red text.)

Oh, I have said that if he EVER sees OW again even if it's just to chat, then he will be moving out the day I find out. And I mean that. I will not Plan A, nor will I Plan B. If it starts up again after he promised our CHILDREN that it would not, I will go straight to Plan D and he knows that without a doubt.

It was either a Recovery right away or nothing for me. I never had to give him that choice because he made it very clear that it had been over for weeks when I found out and that it would have been over sooner had she not been threatening.

Since I found out about her texting him, I have amended that boundary to include any form of contact (that I am not informed about) so he knows I'm not messing around.

Originally Posted by GloveOil
Either he's serious about protecting you & his marriage -- in which case he'll bend over backward to help you feel emotionally safe -- or else he's not serious -- in which case you don't want a guy like him around anyhow. If he's sincere about wanting to build a better marriage with you, then why not give the two of you the best chance to do that with as little prospect of intrusion by OW as possible? If he's sincere, it's a no-brainer for him.[/color]

He claims he's serious and that he knows it will take time for me to feel safe and he's prepared to go through that. He has said I can accompany him to any work related event.

He gives me his GPS location every time he leaves the house, even if it's to pick up the kids, and if he leaves his office to get a coffee, he texts me to let me know exactly when he leaves and when he returns. Then sends me photos of the coffee shop, what he's ordered, then another photo of him in the car.

But I will still put a VAR and a GPS in his car. I need to do that to feel truly safe. I realize that...

Last edited by EllieBlue; 11/19/11 04:31 PM.
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