I haven't talked to him about plan A or plan B, but I have shared the website (as far as I can tell, he's never gone to it, I'm monitoring his computer use) and Lovebusters and asked him to do the questionnaires. I haven't talked to him about it in awhile just asked for the book back.

Desperate, would he leave if you asked him?

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I had thought and hoped that I would at least, be able to one day have a better marriage, and tried to learn what I could about what I could bring to the marriage to make it work. While I now see that by not being clear about my needs, I only ended up hurting our marriage, because the resentments I built up overflowed with my emotional outbursts, I also see that this is, in some ways, a predictable response.

I was going to cut and paste a lot of quotes from your two threads but there were so many I didn�t want to do it. It�s the one above that pointed out something to me. Notice that you start off with saying something about what you could bring to the marriage but then attribute the problems in your marriage to not being clear about your needs and resentment towards your husband building up as a result. I find that hard to believe because you have told us several times in your posts that you have had many AO�s towards your husband, I think that you�ve been abundantly clear about how your husband is at fault for many things, and I�m sure he understands that very well.

Some of the other posters are very sure that your husband is continuing to have an affair because he exhibits some of the �symptoms� or red flags. I don�t think so. I think your husband has just given up trying because he probably sees that you will never be happy with him and he is certainly not happy with the mother/child relationship you have had for some time now.

So my question is what HAVE you brought to your marriage to make it better? In your thread you say you bought a house that would be a renovation project for your husband, which I find curious given that you knew before this that he had problems finishing things and paying attention to detail. Is he a carpenter or contractor by trade? You have told us that you were undergoing financial problems, and that your husband did not have a job at the time you bought the new house � so why pick that time to buy one? You have told us that you are still in financial hot water and barely making enough to pay monthly bills yet you won�t leave your dream job for something that is more lucrative financially. An attorney that doesn�t make as much as a teacher? I find that hard to imagine. So you�ve contributed to putting yourself in this position, yes? Not entirely the fault of your husband is it?
I don�t know what it�s like to live with someone that has ADD, I imagine it can be quite frustrating. But I don�t understand why the two of you would continue to have him be the one who is responsible for paying the bills. You KNOW he�s not going to do a good job of it, so why aren�t YOU the one who does it? It�s not that stressful to have to care for the finances, etc, there are many men here who are the sole financial providers for their family and are responsible for paying the bills and seem to be able to do it without a problem.

There has to be things that your husband can do to contribute to the family wellbeing. You say he is employed now, so he is contributing financially, before your recent marital meltdown did he contribute in the house? Perhaps not doing things the way you would do or in the required timeframe, but able to help? When he does do something in a manner that pleases you, do you provide some form of positive feedback or is your interaction strictly limited to you constantly bringing up his shortcomings, thereby reinforcing the idea that you don�t really have any respect for him as a man or as a husband?

Do you see what I am getting at? I have to wonder if your husband believes that he has been set up for failure, that no matter what he does now, it will never be good enough? I think that is why he has checked out of the marriage, and doesn�t want to participate in the program here with you. What benefit would it be to him, especially if presented as an opportunity for him to make you happier � a task he has found to be beyond his ability?

My wife is Japanese, she can speak, read and write English fairly well, but certainly not fluently. She has taken and passed ESL courses at the local community college when we were in Washington state, and passed exams like the SLEP. But she is petrified of trying to speak English to other native speakers or being put in a situation where someone will not have the patience to speak a little more slowly with good diction. She will not answer the phone unless she sees the number is my cell or one of her friends. So I am the one that has to handle all of the interaction with the outside world, and believe it or not, I did this also while we were in Japan despite the fact that I don�t speak much Japanese. But that�s our deal. I work, do the bills and the money, and I also do the majority of the cooking. She does the cleaning and takes care of our house. She hates to cook, while I love it and am quite good at it. She is almost obsessive about cleaning and is much better at it than I am, and she has time to pursue hobbies and not have the stress of working a job. So the division of labor works for us.

Sometimes it is stressful for me to have to do everything outside the home. I have to frequently take days off to do relatively mundane tasks that another wife could do, and I can�t use the excuse that I am tired because I am in a job with a lot of responsibility with a long commute. This is what I signed on for, I knew this going in and I wouldn�t change it for anything. Because I really love my wife, I have a lot of respect for her as a person and as a partner, something that you don't seem to have for your husband as either a man or a partner. What she brings to me and my life is a benefit that far exceeds any costs to me. I can only imagine that it is frustrating to her at times because she is in a foreign country and she feels intimidated about being able to do things. I imagine that it must be frustrating for her to fear answering the phone. I imagine that at times, despite my best efforts to not make her feel this way, that she feels like a child in a parent child relationship. I praise my wife�s efforts as much as I can and really value the calm, or �wa�, in our household that our arrangement gives us. So I bend over backwards to make her feel my love and how much I value her as my partner despite the fact that I do sometimes get frustrated but almost immediately feel ashamed because I just think of how much courage she had to put her life into my hands and how much trust it took to do that.

Perhaps you and your husband need to come to a new understanding about your roles in your marriage, which is not ever going to be a traditional marriage, and adjust your expectations of each other and play to your individual strengths rather than focusing on your wekanesses. I would think that you could understand that while it is frsutrating for you, imagine how it is for your husband? It's hard to be empathetic at times, but if you truly love someone you can do it.

If you get divorced, it's not going to go so easy as you think it is. despite being in your name for the financing it is still the marital home, and your husband has made payments on the house. Your child is still his child also, and he has a right to see his child on a defined schedule, not when you deem fit. If he has an established disability, you may have to pay some support for him for a period of time, if not indefinitely. Even if you come away with everything the way you envision it, you're going to have to find a job that pays more as befitting an attorney.

So are you really sure that you've done everything that YOU can do to save your marriage and are really ready to divorce? you say you're stressed now, what will happen when it's all on you?

Americajin, thanks for your comments and your analysis. I really appreciate you looking deeply into the whole picture. What I brought to the marriage was a lot of reflection about what had gone wrong in my previous marriage. I had realized that I hadn't paid much attention to my husband's recreational interests, and the woman he had an affair with matched that well. I had also gone through a lot of counseling and realized I was co-dependent and learned a lot about myself and boundary setting, which I needed because I also realized that my relationship with my mother was toxic. I thought I could bring those things to a marriage, and alleviate the problems that had ended my previous marriage. And I have been a dedicated recreational companion to my husband, he is interested in sailing and I have learned oodles about it, we can converse about it, we've gone sailing together, and I've for all intents and purposes adopted his biggest interest as my own. It may seem trivial, but he's described himself from day one as obsessed with sailing, and I've been his best buddy on that issue. In my previous marriage, I had no interest in my ex's major recreational pursuit and he went elsewhere...that was the beginning of the end. In becoming interested/involved in my husband's recreational interest, however, I haven't asked for the same in return, so we've done almost nothing that interest me or I do it by myself, causing me to become more withdrawn.


He is a carpenter by trade. And when we met and he was self-employed, we'd work on a lot of projects of his together in the evening, so it was something we could work on together. When we've talked about buying a house over the years, we've always wanted a fixer-upper to make our own and build equity. When we bought the house, he was a stay at home dad with a three year old, and the idea was he could complete a lot of work before we enrolled our son in preschool and moved on. We had timelines we set together. We did work some in the evenings, but my days were really long and I didn't have much energy left. Financially, buying this house fit into the picture because we planned to rent out the guesthouse (that the kids and I are now living in) so it would help with income problems. If we'd gotten the house done quickly, we would have had enough extra just from the rent so he could re-build his business. Of course, he could have been working on that some while he was a stay at home dad, but hadn't.

To be honest, I think depression is a big problem here, and I think it's a bigger problem than the ADD. He's gotten overwhelmed and hopeless himself, and can't get the motivation about it. But he won't address that through any sort of medicine, although he's going to individual counseling. A year ago when we made the choice for me to take a lower paying job, the benefit to our family in decreased stress levels for me was worth it to us all, and he really did seem ready and eager to go back to work, it just didn't materialize.

Yes, I've become hyper-critical and lack respect and don't express admiration for him. It was a long process getting to this point, full of lots of "we need to talk" discussions initiated by me where I pointed out the things that were bothering me, asked for his help in resolving them, and he was unwilling to change the dynamic. Even as frequently as a few weeks ago, when we were talking about his inability to follow through with things and forgetfulness, he said that his preferred way of dealing with that is to have me keep reminding him. So I don't think he really doesn't like the mother/child relationship, I think he finds that more comfortable, it's when I refused to do that anymore and expected him to start growing up that we had problems. And though I tried again and again to engage him in this, he hasn't been willing. I've even gotten a lot of suggestions from my counselor about how to work around that, setting up a family calender, reminding him to check it and put things on. To his credit, he's put a couple of things on the calendar, but he never checks it and has frequently planned things when we already had a commitment that was on the calendar.


I agree. We did make this choice together, and perhaps I shouldn't have made it until he had an actual job, but timing wise we planned to wait a month because my kids winter break was coming up and I had to make a quick decision about the new job. We got sidetracked in buying the house. It all happened really fast but we talked a lot about how we could make it work, with timelines and plans, etc. But then my husband got completely in a funk. I would come home from work and absolutely nothing had happened all day long, our son had practically made his own food, when we were packing, my husband barely packed up his own stuff let alone household stuff, so it was all on me yet I was working full time and commuting (part of buying the house was to move closer to my job, which was in a different city, and we also wanted to leave the city we were in). Then when we moved it got even worse, nothing was happening on my husband's job search, nothing was getting done around the house. My co-dependency kicked in and I just tried to work around his combined depression and ADD. I started expressing concern to him and asking him about seeking help for it a month after we moved to the new place, but then he dragged his feet and it took four months from when he decided he'd seek help and actually got help, and meanwhile, our life was falling apart around us. We had a financial cushion but not one that could last a whole year, it held us through about six months, then in the few months after that we dug into debt, now even though our income is okay we are needing to dig out of debt and also still are living in shambles. I don't know how to describe the situation better. He isn't responsible for paying the bills, but he's been spending from our joint account without checking with me on what our actual balance is, just looked at the "available balance" online without paying attention to outstanding checks and planned bills. To his credit, he's not been doing this the last few weeks in terms of spending, but since I've had to practically beg him to put his money into the joint account, it's been a new problem also leading to financial instability.

Thanks for sharing your experience with your wife. I see what you're meaning about bringing different things to a relationship and having an agreement about responsibilities. I think in your case it's a mutually agreed upon set up, and my husband and I had that when he was first a stay at home dad, but it deteriorated.


He does believe he has been set up for failure. And I have been disrespectful and given him that belief. I could handle all of his shortcomings until it threatened my stability with my kids, and when I felt he was neglecting their needs, that's when I really lost all respect for him. For our whole relationship, he's never picked up after himself without being reminded, but it wasn't until everything else piled up that I absolutely couldn't stand to pick up another one of his darned shirts. I've had patience with his projects going slowly, and been able to help him along, but this one impacts us much differently and has had NO progress for most weeks, so it's not like going slowly. I can't bring myself to praise him for working an hour every two weeks on the house. I just don't have it in me, it would not be genuine. I still appreciate every time he does something like cook dinner, but the problem is it's so much more often that he doesn't do something that he has agreed to do, or does it so sloppily it needs to be redone, that I'm exhausted. And while he was a stay at home dad, I really let it be his thing, just offering suggestions, until I realized that he wasn't doing much but being online during the day and our son was actually behind developmentally.

But have I done everything I could do? No. I am willing to work again on our marriage, but it has to be a partnership, I just can't carry him anymore.

He's about to lose his job, and I can't go through that again, for poor performance and not getting along with people where he works. Second job lost in 8 months. His bosses can't stand this behavior, and I can't either. He needs to be willing to address his depression before we can get anywhere.

No divorce won't be easier, but it will be a different sort of hard. I still hope we will be able to do something to reconcile, I just don't think I can solve these problems on my end alone, and since he's been unwilling to work on things on his end, and not willing to work together on our marriage, I don't know that there is anything more that I can do until he's ready.

There's not much else to really say then, I can see that you've thought it through. I had wondered if it would be helpful for your husband to post here, perhaps if he heard things coming from someone else, especially the guys here, that it would turn him around. It would be pretty blunt and straightforward, could serve as a wake-up call to see how his behavior is perceived by the men here. Can't see how he is going to get through life with seemingly no motivation to care for himself, never mind a family.

From what you said it almost sounds like he reacts to you passive/aggressively, the thing that struck me was the laundry and him asking you to keep reminding him instead of being responsible for doing it on his own. Either way he can spin it - if you keep reminding him, you're acting like his mother; if you don't remind him, then it's not his fault because you didn't remind him. A lot of the stuff you mentioned were things he could do without confronting you, kind of like a kid walking around the corner after a scolding thinking "Well, I'll just show her".

At any rate, thanks for your reply, it answered all of my questions and then some. Whatever you decide to do, I do wish you luck. It sounds like your BS meter has been pegging on the negative pole for quite some time, and has gotten to the point where it can no longer swing back.

I hope it's not stuck. I'm still wanting my family back...I think if my husband was getting treatment and addressing his depression, a lot of these other issues, which haven't been around the entire time we've been together but have developed slowly over time, will lesson.

Today's my birthday and we've had a nice couple of days. He and my son bought me a cake. I did give him a list of my proposed splitting of the bills, since he wants to split our joint checking account, and he was a little taken back but matter of fact about it. I think he's very much out of touch with reality.

I was talking to my sister tonight and she was remembering back to a visit she had with us in May, when he just wasn't like he used to be. He said every day "I'm going to install the toilet today," but it took four days before he did it. That's a lot of what I've been hearing, although most projects never actually reach the completion point. But it wasn't this way when we first met, it has developed over time.

Hopefully the antidepressant I just started will help me be more relaxed and less reactionary.

I've also been reading Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders and found it very interesting...helps me see where my perspective has been off and where our dynamic has not been buyer-oriented.

Update!!

Okay, the antidepressants REALLY help. I've been on zoloft for about a month and it's been so helpful, I don't react to things emotionally in any quick way, I can plan and think, and I can let things go a lot easier. Plus, the feeling of being overwhelmed by my situation is gone.

I went to Chicago to visit relatives over Christmas, had a good time being away, finished buyers, renters, and freeloaders and really got a good sense of the problem of sacrifice in a relationship. I grew up with a co-dependent single mom, and have developed co-dependency myself, which is all about "sacrifice" so this was eye opening.

H and I spoke a few times while I was gone, he didn't say thank you for the Christmas present I had sent (I had to ask if he actually got it, as I'd had it mailed to his mom's). But I got to visit my family and had a wonderful time surrounded by love.

I came home and felt refreshed and rejuvenated. I was able to plan A completely.

H lost his job on a Friday, but didn't tell me. Saturday he was again working on the fence for church. I had another activity with the kids and then went to the church, meant to just drop the kids off and go buy a washer/dryer because ours has been broken and my grandmother sent me money for a dryer, and I could buy a used set. I ended up joining the fence building and the time working on a project with H was emotionally kind of hard for me, we used to do that so much and enjoyed it. Another family (who knows what's going on) invited us out to dinner, and I asked H. He said he didn't have the money, so I said I'd pay for his dinner to join us. (Mind you, he still hadn't told me he'd lost his job, although at the end of dinner by our cars he said he needed to talk to me the next day about his job). The next day we went to church (separately, as he went to an AA meeting first). At the end of the social hour our pastor walked up to me and said sympathetically, sounds like your finances are going to get more difficult. H was within hearing and I just looked at him with eyebrows raised. After I got our son down for a nap, I went to talk to him, and he said that he'd lost his job, that he wanted to take our son and go to his mom's for a few weeks. I calmly said that wouldn't work, as our son is enrolled in a state sponsored pre-kindergarten and has attendence requirements. He said he'd ask the school.

I talked to a couple of lawyer friends that week. I wanted to be sure he couldn't just take our son and move away. Well, of course he could, but that if he did, that I'd be able to get him back. I also heard from them calling his attorney that he was planning to file for divorce and asking for alimony!! (The man has no shame). I took it all in stride, as best I could, and made him sign an agreement to return with our son in one week (which was a plan we came up with and worked out with the school because of the holiday).

While he's been gone, I've been tackling all sorts of house projects that have been preventing us from moving back into the main house. My girls and I finished the wood floor installation in one bedroom, and started it in the next, it's at the point it will go quickly. I also went and looked at a set of cabinets I could buy fairly cheaply to go in the kitchen. And I arranged for someone (with H's permission) to come get his dilapidated, neglected old sailboat that has been clogging our yard for two years. By the time he gets back, I will at least have the wood floors done, hopefully rent a sander next weekend and possibly have it sanded as well, plus the girls and I are going to clean/organize as much as we can our scattered and crazy boxes. My goal is to move into the main house ASAP so if he does file, the "status quo" is the kids and I living there.

And to be honest, when I was able to put in a good 10-15 hours on the project and (even being an amateur) got so much done, it just irritates the heck out of me how little he's done on this project and how frustrating it's made my life. I'm so proud of myself!

And a side effect of the zoloft is less appetite, and I've lost 10 pounds since going on it!

When will you be going into Plan B like Dr Harley suggested?

Honestly, I don't know yet. I would, but financially it would be a disaster for me (all the debt is in my name and so it would only affect my credit...I can't let that happen). I can't make him move out without legally evicting him (in Florida). What I'm trying to do is move into the front house. After that, it would be legal wrangling whether I can get him to move out of the back house or not. And I know I can't plan B when we live 60 feet apart.

I don't understand. He doesn't have a job so he can't contribute anyway. What about your idea of moving into a townhouse?

And are you sure you would have to get him legally evicted? Most men will leave if asked.

Plan A will be a disaster for your marriage and your mental health. This is why Dr Harley told you to get separated.

It's not that he can contribute, although he did get some side jobs lined up, and can usually find work when he puts his mind to it (he does seem to be trying). It's that if I leave him the house and expect he'll pay the mortgage, he won't, and my credit will tank even more. He doesn't want to leave because staying here fits with his "plan" for the future that we have 50/50 timesharing with our son and live on the same property. I don't think most men would ask for alimony from a five year marriage, he just isn't exactly typical.

I am planning on talking to him about other long term plans and will be moving him into the back house as soon as I can finish up the front. (I just spent another productive evening installing wood floors! Almost done, should finish tomorrow night!)

I met with my counselor today, and she and my co-workers noticed a huge change in my attitude. I'm feeling empowered. I don't plan on "Plan A"ing for long, but while we're still together, if I can avoid lovebusting it will make Plan B all the better. I really hope within a few weeks I can do it. Unfortunately, Florida law is weird on the eviction thing, and also unfortunately, my husband knows it because I've taught him a lot of law over the years.

He came home late on Saturday night, after he'd told me he wouldn't be back until Sunday, and he had a huge fit, yelling at me after midnight in front of our son, then barging into my bedroom twice after that, the second time taking our (now quite upset) son with him (I let him go, he was worried his dad was "lonely"). I had moved H's bed into the living room because I was sanding the floors in the bedrooms, and apparently this is what upset him. The next day he threw multiple fits as well, was very demanding, etc. I kept my calm and set boundaries, and let him know that I was going to keep moving forward with the house repairs, because that's what my family needed, and that the kids and I would move into the front house when it was done. I also told him that long term, he needs to find another place to live, as it will not work for us to be on the same property. He got upset about that, and I offered to let him refinance the house in his name (which I know he can't do...but I'd love if he could or would), and then I would leave, and he said he'd look into that. I think he was really bothered that I'd made so much progress.

I'm trying to keep the peace, and doing well with not love busting and also not getting emotionally vested in what's happening with him. But I'd love any other suggestions or help. I did say at church during the "sharing joys, milestones, and concerns" time that I was so proud of myself and happy that the girls and I had been doing necessary home repairs and getting so much done. He was at church as well. That's another problem with Plan B, I would not want to leave my church, its a big part of my support and community and the only one of it's kind in the area.

� really feel for you and your husband.

Bothe of you did not plan to relate to each other in this way.
I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you to always be the mature one and the one who does all the work.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for your husband. He loses his job (again), did not finish the projects the two of you planned (you did), stands to lose his wife and housee. He must be feeling so worthless.

I have ADD myself. I had it all the way through medical school (still don't know how I did that). If I don't take my medication, most of the days I will have gotten nothing ready at the end of the day. I will only start working when I know my husband is comin in half an hour and my stress levels are high enough to get me a bit more focussed.
The day will just fly by. After breakfast, I will look at the clock and say: "Oh my, 11:30 already! I really have to get the things done I planned for today." The next time I look at the clock it will be an hour befor H gets back and I will be afraid what he will say, as I have accomplished nothing. Then 0,5 hour later, I will be running like mad, to have the house more or less acceptable, so he won't nag about it. (Trust me, it is the fear that drives me by then and I feel like a otal failure.) I have a very bad feeling because of all the things that did not get done and am afraid of the things I forgot.
If I take my meds and follow my list, the day might actually be productive. I work best when under major stress like: MIL will be there in 6 minutes, but there is 2 hours of work to be done.
What also helps, is when I work together with someone who gets me started and keeps me focussed (my father, who has ADD too, always works with his brother. Without him, nothing gets finished).

I understand, that it may look to you that he does not care and is lazy. But trust me, it is excruciating to always fail. To lose jobs, because people think you are not interested because you fail to notice things, etc.
What good does it do to have a certified IQ of 158 if you cannot even seem to remember to think of the simplest things?

Is there any chance you could get your husband to give medication a chance? In the beginning of your relationship, it was different, because everything was new and exhillarating, which helped keep him focussed no doubt.

Don't take me wrong, I do not condone egoistic behaviour with the excuse of ADD. But I do object to calling someone lazy/irresponsible/etc where the symptoms seem so clear. even if the two of you do not make it, you will need to coparent with him, which would be much easier with meds.

Well, I hope you will have peace,

God bless,

Happyheart

Desperate, I hope that you follow through and take Dr Harley's advice to separate, because this is probably going to get much worse. When Dr Harley suggests separation, versus Plan A, he is very serious, becasue that means he sees something very wrong.

And happyheart, just so you know, Harley does not recommend "co-parenting" schemes because they are typically a disaster. Dr Harley has told Desperate to go into Plan B, which would preclude "co-parenting." While in Plan B there is no direct contact between the parents.

Thank you for the clarification ML.

I meant to say that he will still be the father of her children and inevitabily a lot of things will be going wrong if he is not under treatment for his condition.
Forgetting to pick up children at the IM, bringing them back too late, kids schoolbag missing, setting a bad example to the children by coming off as lazy and not being able to work a decent job.

These are things that will (indirectly) affect a mother, allthough much can be filthered because of plan B.

That's why I cannot say it often enough:
if it is that bad with him and you still have any influence at all, hopefully you can convince him to take medication.
Not because he is defective, but because of the way this society is structured, he is being set up for failure without meds.

Just to add a positive note:

In cultures of wandering people, those with ADHD-associated genes seem to be in advantage. (not saying that you should buy a trailer and start wandering though)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609195604.htm

And the good thing:

approximately 4% of the general population have ADHD, but 35% of american millionaires!

Happyheart, thanks for sharing your perspective. I respect very much where you are coming from and appreciate the personal information you share. I wish in some ways I had understood his ADD better back when we had a good relationship starting to sour, unfortunately, now there is so much bitterness and other negativity I don't know how we'd get past all of that. He is now taking medication, and has been for about 4 months. Even being on it, though, he did lose this job, and he didn't work any more on the house. What you said about your dad working with someone really rings true...my husband seems to work really well when he has someone with him, keeping the pace moving and the work focused.

I truly in my heart wish we could reconcile. But at the same time, I also look at that feeling and wonder how much I want to "rescue" him. This last few weeks, when I've had two weeks (at Christmas and last week) when we weren't together, I was able to see myself as a whole person again. That is something my kids need to have, just as much as it's something I need. This last year has been hell for them just as it has for me, only they can't do anything about the situation.

I am going to keep working towards Plan B, that's why I need to get the front house finished so I can move in (I even started talking to people about the back house and possibly renting it in a couple of months.)

Okay, I'm really gearing up for plan B (although I'm still trying to figure out how to get him out of the house...especially since he's literally in the way of me finishing renovations).

Are there any sample Plan B letters for when the problems are neglect and abuse more than an affair? Or how should I address that?

Also, I'm not willing to give up my church, and I'm sure he'll still attend. I'm hoping eventually he'll fade from there, but I can't count on it. I don't have family nearby and my church is a huge source of support and "family" for my kids. How should I handle that?

Thanks!!

Your H will know this and use it to his advantage. This means you'll have at least one break in Plan B each week. He may also wage a campaign to get you back by manipulating the members of the church with Prayer Requests to heal your marriage or by tearfully talking to members who may feel called to talk with you about him and your marriage (even conversation about him is a break in Plan B.)

It doesn't sound like you'll be able to successfully Plan B this way.

My husband has no interest in reconciliation. I doubt he would ever try to plead with people to have me take him back or anything...at this point, he's completely done. (Got the good old block on facebook last night, and his status is now separated. Of course, for whatever reason, he is still friends with my dad and one cousin).

I've been telling people at church that I would like to reconcile and would like their help in encouraging him to do so, but he hasn't spoken to anyone. I think that's part of his lack of reality, he's only looking to his crazy online website and forum for marital advice, instead of the people around him. I've spoken at length with many people at church, and he's pretty much been mum.

Isn't plan B supposed to be my personal recovery? I don't know how I'd do that without my church. And it's a unitarian universalist church, there isn't another one for more than an hours drive, so switching churchs isn't an option.