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We have plans as a family again today.
Family time is good, but make sure you are spending time together with just the two of you. And no affair-talk.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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We have plans as a family again today.
Family time is good, but make sure you are spending time together with just the two of you. And no affair-talk.

I didn't bring up the A yesterday but H did. We had a nice time as a family and then H invited me to cuddle in bed and talk. He asked for a hug and I noticed his body tense up and I looked at him and he was crying. I asked him if he was okay and he started sobbing uncontrollably. He was wailing loudly and it looked like he was in incredibly pain. After he caught his breath, he started to say again how sorry he was for all the damage he had done to our family and that if he could back in time, the A would never have happened. He was gasping for breath and his heart was beating so fast, it was scary. He kept saying, "I'm so so sorry, Honey. I'm so sorry."

It took him a long time to calm down.

But when he did he explained that he had tried to talk to our eldest DD the other day and she told him to leave her alone. Then he started sobbing again and he said he's destroyed his relationship with his baby girl too. He said our family falling apart and it's all his fault. I'm hurt, his kids are hurt and everyone is walking around in pain.

It was mentioned that the guilt will hit him hard when and if he's truly repentant. I hope this is what is happening...

But after being lied to for so long, the paranoid side of me is thinking that he is only sorry because he got caught and now he can't handle it and maybe the skank and her unconditional admiration of him, despite the fact that he would lie and cheat is looking "oh so good" right now. This house is not exactly a fantasyland escape, considering his DD's are not exactly impressed with him and I'm obviously hurting.

Last year, he ended the A from September to mid January and then started it up again. (I never found out about the A until it was over.) So of course I'm thinking that in the New Year, the skank is going to look good again just like she did last year. Maybe I shouldn't have asked about her but I did. He said he wishes he never laid eyes on ow and that she is a horrible reminder of what he has lost. He said being with her again would add to his guilt not detract from it and that it was done a long time ago and will always be done.

So am I seeing a repentant wayward? Or is simply he displaying some world class acting skills to throw me off?


Last edited by EllieBlue; 12/31/11 08:05 PM.
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So am I seeing a repentant wayward? Or is simply he displaying some world class acting skills to throw me off?
I don't know your WH personally, so I can't speak to his sincerity one way or another. But I CAN tell you that his words and actions are very similar to my H's after D-Day, and my H has been the model of a reformed wayward. We are almost 3 years out from D-Day. I think his words are very positive.

That being said, I still have ways of confirming my H's words and actions. Trust, but verify.

Your children will eventually accept the A as a huge disruption in the security of their family life. It will become a part of their family history. How you and your WH relate to each other will dictate their thoughts and actions to a large degree. But it's great that your DD is making her father aware of her unhappiness with his decision to damage his family. It will help bring home to him the terrible consequences of his actions.


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Ahhh, what the heck, it's approaching midnight and my gender-insensitive comments are not likely to be "zapped" until 2012, so here they come:

YES, a WH will have the inclination to feel like a load of used pig food, but a there is a point, well short of "sobbing uncontrollably...wailing loudly...like he was in incredibe pain...gasping for breath...heart was beating so fast" when a MAN has to stand up and say, "I did it, I'm incredibly sorry, now what can I do for YOU?"

I think he's hiding behind his "anguish" as a ploy. "Oh, poor WH is in agony, how can I ask him to MAN THE F**K UP and take ownership of the mess he's created?" Look, one day, two days....okay, the shame can be daunting. But....enough already!

Make this real easy on yourself: Using the symbolism popularized in a lite-beer ad campaign, tell Mr. EB he's got until Monday to grow a set, or NG is gonna track him down through the internet, and take away his man-card! Or, worse, he'll ask ML to do it!

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
That being said, I still have ways of confirming my H's words and actions. Trust, but verify.

I agree. I don't trust him at all. His words and actions still seem flaky to me. I mean merely days ago, this was the man claiming to want a "fresh start". He's clearly still operating from a very selfish mindset so verifying his words is something I need to do for my sanity.

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
But it's great that your DD is making her father aware of her unhappiness with his decision to damage his family. It will help bring home to him the terrible consequences of his actions.

Yes, her displeasure with his actions is obvious. He certainly feels guilty over the damage he's done to his children but again, talking about a "fresh start" and claiming we will help the children get through it doesn't exactly give me confidence in him, regardless of his breakdown the other night. It's still very much all about him.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Ahhh, what the heck, it's approaching midnight and my gender-insensitive comments are not likely to be "zapped" until 2012, so here they come:

YES, a WH will have the inclination to feel like a load of used pig food, but a there is a point, well short of "sobbing uncontrollably...wailing loudly...like he was in incredibe pain...gasping for breath...heart was beating so fast" when a MAN has to stand up and say, "I did it, I'm incredibly sorry, now what can I do for YOU?"


I think he's hiding behind his "anguish" as a ploy. "Oh, poor WH is in agony, how can I ask him to MAN THE F**K UP and take ownership of the mess he's created?" Look, one day, two days....okay, the shame can be daunting. But....enough already!


The irony is not lost on me. Yes, he should be more concerned about what he can do for me. That's what's been missing. He's eager for me to meet HIS needs but his lack of concern for mine is obvious at times. He's simply not consistent. Yes, I have probably brought up the A too much but does he really try to make me feel safe? No. I think if he made more of an effort, I would be less concerned about the A but clearly, I can only control me. He's still in Taker mode and I'm struggling not to let mine take over because my Giver is sick of giving. He was the one screaming D for 4 months before I found out about the A and I was being strong and fighting for our family. Now, he's the one who dealt us this major blow and he's whining because I might be feeling negative some days? Clearly he seems to forget his drama for 4 months and how negative he was. He makes me look like the poster girl for positive thinking.

So yes, time for him to MAN UP for sure. I've often thought of him as childish and to be honest, I'm losing more and more respect for him daily. I think the resentment from what he put me through during the A and after he first brought up Divorce in the Spring, and then d-day of the A AND his flaky behavior since, is wearing me down.

And no, I am not giving up and I will still meet his EN's but he does need to step up soon or Plan B is going to look very tempting. Regardless of whether the A is active and I can't find any evidence but his Taker and his "me, me, me" attitude is wearing thin.

I'm losing my love for him. I can feel it.

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...tell Mr. EB he's got until Monday to grow a set, or NG is gonna track him down through the internet, and take away his man-card! Or, worse, he'll ask ML to do it!

Monday has come and gone. Where does your WH stand on the manliness continuum delineated between "Chuck Norris" (what you need) and "PeeWee Herman" (what you had) ?

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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
He denies being foggy because he said he was the one who ended the A before I found out about it and he made the decision to recover our marriage before D-day so it was not a reaction to exposure.


"Exposure had nothing to do with ending my affair" is such a common refrain from waywards that it deserves a spot in the fogbabble hall of shame. Every betrayed sees it, every wayward doesn't. Many waywards continue to believe exposure had nothing to do with ending the affair indefinitely, but are willing to overlook it for the big Independent Behavior Love Buster it is if they're willing to recover.



Doormat_No_More
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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
I'm losing my love for him. I can feel it.

I'd still be very concerned he's having his intimate emotional needs met some other way. I'd check for pornography use & masturbation next, as well as keeping up other snooping.


Doormat_No_More
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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...tell Mr. EB he's got until Monday to grow a set, or NG is gonna track him down through the internet, and take away his man-card! Or, worse, he'll ask ML to do it!

Monday has come and gone. Where does your WH stand on the manliness continuum delineated between "Chuck Norris" (what you need) and "PeeWee Herman" (what you had) ?

Unfortunately, I'd say he's still leaning towards PeeWee on the continuum.

He was feeling sorry for himself the next day as well. He asked me to cuddle with him and then the tears started up again and so did the apologies. The "fresh start" speech makes these apologies seem self-serving. Although, he gets half a bonus point for at least saying that he understands it's not all about him and it's really about my pain, but that he does feel truly sorry for what he's done to us.


Still, I can't help but wonder what fresh hell he has in store for our family this year.

I'm keeping my venting and the negativity to the board though.

Yesterday, I was affectionate, met his need of RC and then we also spent time together as a family.

And I didn't bring up the A yesterday but he did. We were watching a program and the storyline started to become sexual. Suddenly he said, "I think we better turn the channel." It annoyed me because sex is everywhere and it's hard to get away from and I was triggered way before the sex was brought up so I couldn't help but think that he was thinking of the skank. Of course that made my triggers worse but I said nothing.

Later as we were cuddling in bed, he thanked me for a nice day so everything seems back on track.

Well, aside from the fear and anxiety I felt when I woke up this morning...

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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted by EllieBlue
I'm losing my love for him. I can feel it.

I'd still be very concerned he's having his intimate emotional needs met some other way. I'd check for pornography use & masturbation next, as well as keeping up other snooping.

Okay, I will.

When we weren't having a lot of SF, he used to masturbate a lot but never hid it from me. Now that we're having a lot of SF, I haven't noticed him masturnbating. Like I said, he's never hidden this fact from me. Is masturbation an issue if it's infrequent?

Will do on the porn but have never found evidence of that...so far.

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Originally Posted by EllieBlue
Is masturbation an issue if it's infrequent?


Yes. It's a major source of Contrast Effect. It's easier and more convenient than making love, and so making love to you seems more difficult by contrast. Even more so if it involves porn.

I'm not saying those are the causes... I'm saying that they are common factors. In reality, he could also just be going through withdrawal still, which would adequately explain the behavior. If withdrawal symptoms persist beyond March, though, look for evidence of further contact.

As far as him believing he doesn't love her, that's only because he doesn't understand the Love Bank model yet. She still has a balance in his heart, and probably will for life. That's why she'll remain a danger for life and Extraordinary Precautions are so necessary.

Regarding channel-changing due to content: It was helpful for me to analyze what was going on just before we experienced these episodes or before I experienced triggers in order to figure out how to avoid them or flush them out of our lives.

It's important also to realize that COMPLAINING IS GOOD. Criticism is not, but it's very important to complain. So when you feel annoyed, it's important to express what you would love him to do instead. Break old habits of disrespect by using "I'd love it if..." and "I love it when..." statements.

I feel for you. It's a struggle with a serial cheater on your hands to figure out if it's worth it to be with him. Seen it end badly too many times years & decades later for me to be optimistic, but if he gets very good at policing his boundaries (extraordinary precautions) and being Radically Honesty with you at all times, you have a chance.


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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
As far as him believing he doesn't love her, that's only because he doesn't understand the Love Bank model yet. She still has a balance in his heart, and probably will for life. That's why she'll remain a danger for life and Extraordinary Precautions are so necessary.

We have argued over this point. He maintains that he has no feelings for her and that the ones he had were based on lies and deceit and therefore not real. He said that the A ran his course, became more trouble than it was worth and that she withdrew so many Love Bank deposits, that his account was overdrawn.

We did find this article by Dr. H (below) and my WH claims this is what happened in his case. Although, he doesn't argue that he needs to make sure he never sees her again. At least we agree on that, but as far as having a Love Bank for her, he insists he does not because he found her very unappealing once he realized her true colors...and then of course she went beserk and that was the capper. He said her actions near the end only solidified his dislike for her as a person. (You would think that being the kind of skank that would get involved with a married man would have made her unappealing in the first place but whatever.)



Quote
But there comes a time in almost every affair that an unfaithful spouse realizes that it has run it's course, or it wasn't a good idea to begin with. In some cases, it's the lover who ends the relationship, finding that the spouse isn't living up to expectations. And in other cases, it's the spouse that ends it when the disadvantages of the affair begin to outweigh the advantages.

In most cases, affairs end peacefully and in secret. By their very nature, there is not much of a commitment to hold them together, and a desire to do the "right thing" is usually the excuse an unfaithful spouse uses to end it. But the real reason is usually that the affair has become more trouble than it's worth.

Occasionally, a scorned lover will go berserk, call the spouse all hours of the day and night, file lawsuits and create all kinds of trouble. But that's very rare. Affairs usually end quietly.

Full article here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html




Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Regarding channel-changing due to content: It was helpful for me to analyze what was going on just before we experienced these episodes or before I experienced triggers in order to figure out how to avoid them or flush them out of our lives.

It's important also to realize that COMPLAINING IS GOOD. Criticism is not, but it's very important to complain. So when you feel annoyed, it's important to express what you would love him to do instead. Break old habits of disrespect by using "I'd love it if..." and "I love it when..." statements.

Thank-you, I will try this.

Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
I feel for you. It's a struggle with a serial cheater on your hands to figure out if it's worth it to be with him. Seen it end badly too many times years & decades later for me to be optimistic, but if he gets very good at policing his boundaries (extraordinary precautions) and being Radically Honesty with you at all times, you have a chance.

As far as I know, he's not a serial cheater. I'm not interested in reconciling if he is as I too have read that it usually does not end well. However, now that I know the sign's of an A and after looking back on his behavior this past year, I will say I've never seen him act that crazy in 18 years. Although, one can never say for sure. We have spoken about this and he's told me to schedule a poly because he is not a serial cheater and this will be his only A. Yes, of course they ALL say that...

I cheated on my H when we were dating and while he was away at college. It went on for 6 months and started for the same reasons he used to justify his A. I was angry at the way he treated me sometimes and of course my EN's were not being met because he was away. I was young, it was a horrible thing to do and I vowed never again to cheat on anyone again. The guilt was overwhelming. I never told my H until recently because it seemed unfair to keep it from him considering. He was shocked and hurt because he said he was faithful to me during that time and always assumed I was. Anyway, my point is I did it once and never did it again. I made sure to never put myself in that position because I knew what could happen but there were times when I came close especially when my H was not meeting my EN's. However, I knew how easily it could happen and in hindsight, I realize that I took EP's.

I think that experience has been one of the reasons, I do have faith that some people can make horrible mistakes, and change.


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I was in the garage today and got this overwhelming urge to snoop in my H's gym bag.

I found a piece of paper in it with legal info. It was obvious he had seen a lawyer so I calmly confronted by handing him the paper. He admitted he had seen a lawyer last week when he was feeling negative because he still has doubts about whether we can recover from this, and he doesn't feel worthy of me. He said he believes that I'm just afraid to make the decision to leave him and I will regret it someday if I don't. I admitted that I have doubts but that doubts are probably normal.

He said again that the A was the biggest mistake of his life and that it ruined his life and mine. He said he saw the lawyer but then he backed off again because he loves me.

I just listened and didn't respond to much which is unlike me. He stared at me for a long time. Then he came over, held in in his arms and said, "I do love you. I always did. I was just angry because you would't have sex with me so I found someone who would. But I should have talked to you instead because I always just wanted it to be you. I want to go back in time but I can't and I'm so sorry for everything."

The last two times I got a version of this "you will never get past this so I'm leaving" speech, I responded by saying that he was only being selfish and thinking of himself. This time I just listened and didn't argue or try to convince.

I understand that he's scared. If I cheated on him, I too would be scared of him leaving me too but shouldn't he be reassuring me?

Finally I said that we won't recover if we go back to the ways things were in our old M so we need to focus on meeting each other's needs and if that doesn't work then we should pack it in.

He hugged me and said, "I really do love you, you know."

I said, "I know you do."

Oh, the drama. He left to take our S to karate.

I don't even know what the heck is going on anymore and I'm not getting pulled into his "leaving" drama anymore. I don't have evidence of contact so I'm assuming the guilt is hitting him hard and he has the urge to run. Good grief. Enough already.

Or maybe he just wants me to shout, "Oh H, you are WORTHY!"

Ironically, I ordered "Fall in Love, Stay in Love, Love Busters and the Romantic Love Workbook" earlier today.

We shall see what tonight brings...


Last edited by EllieBlue; 01/04/12 10:02 PM.
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H came over to me tonight after him and S returned, gave me a big long hug and some kisses (much to my surprise as I thought I was going to get more of the Divorce speech). Then he asked if I wanted to do dinner as a family tomorrow night, and then dinner just the two of us on Friday night.

I said, "That sounds nice". Then whispered, "If you want me to think you are worthy, then prove to me that you are because I do love you."

He whispered, "You are right. I love you too."

Hoping my Romantic Love Workbook arrives soon.


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I once knew a woman whose husband was sending her roses daily, the week before her birthday.
On her birthday, there was a knock at the door.
Her husband says to her:

"You get it. It's for you."

She opened the door, a little giddy, expecting a big birthday surprise.

What she got was "served".
Divorce papers.
Later, she discovered there was an OW.

What I want you to do is to not be swept away by romantic gestures.

Is H on board with a plan to keep you safe and protected from future affairs?
If not, then be very wary and do not be fooled by simple romantic gestures.

Do not get me wrong, romantic gestures are wonderful in the context of a safe and loving marriage where EN's are known, POJA is working, etc.

Romantic gestures by a wayward are dubious and changeable.

Be careful.

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