I�m hoping some of the long-timers can chime in on a question.

I�ve not posted here in quite a while, so if my back story is relevant to my question please let me know�I�ll be happy to give the cliff notes. My original posts are in the archive so it would be easier to post here if needed.

My W�s A ended in early 2004 and we�ve been in a wonderful recovery since then. As is probably the case with any betrayed spouse, I�ve had times here and there when the ugly reality of the past roars in and takes my breath away�.these times have always been few and far between and very short lived. Sometimes it�s out of nowhere and sometimes there is an obvious trigger, but either way it�s the past, it�s over and done with and I can always move on from it�.at the most it�s a few hours of inner turmoil.

This is never in the form of anger at my W for what she did, just grief at the senselessness of the whole situation. Not regret or anything�..our M is better because of what happened and while I wish the change could have come as the result of something less tragic, I wouldn�t redo it if I could.

I figure this is a normal part of life now�.it�ll happen from now until forever, but for the last 2 weeks or so, the past has been constantly in the front of my mind. Again, not anger or any emotion directed at my W, but it seems like there are constant triggers and reminders. Even subtle things that normally would not act as a trigger have for the last while. It�s the same feelings and emotions that I have felt before, difference is that it�s not passing like it always has.

Some of this may stem from the fact that I chose early on not to ask about every little detail of the A. I just didn�t feel that I needed to know details�.I asked what I felt I needed to know and that was it. Not that my W would not tell me, just that I decided it was not necessary. In some ways I wonder if that lack of information is what is causing this.

Another possible source is that my W and I each have a sibling that is currently either involved in or struggling through the aftermath of an A. The subject has been part of normal conversation for quite a while now. I probably know more details of their situations than I do about my own.

Regardless, my W has always been willing to talk to me about things if I feel I need to. She�s always wondered if I asked enough questions and has told me time and again that she�ll tell me anything I want to know. I�ve always opted not to do so, but lately I�m wondering if it�s a bad idea or not.

Has anyone else this far out from an A faced this? If so, what did you do about it? Is it best just left alone at this point or can it be beneficial to get it out, even this far down the road? I just wonder if a discussion like that is worth it when you consider the emotion required to have it�..still is a difficult subject to have a frank discussion about.

Just curious as to what others think based on their own experience.

Here's my take on this. Do you know the identity of OM? Has there been no contact between your W and OM? Has your wife implemented extraordinary precautions to prevent re-igniting of this affair or the start of any other? If you have the answers to these questions, what advantage would there be to knowing additional details?

AM

An absolute yes to all. I know that I have answers to the important questions, hence almost 8 years of reluctance to even talk about the A at all (on my part).
I just sometimes wonder how healthy it is to go through a traumatic experience like an A and never really discuss it. Touchy topic avoidance has always been a problem of mine and looking back I see that it was a factor during the A as well. Not that I didn't do what needed doing to save my M, but....

I may be thinking to clinically. I'm not messed up over things by any means, I'm just trying to explore reasoning behind this coming up out of the blue and figured others might have some insight.

Thanks for your view BTW....I appreciate it.

Diagnosis: Your wife has a low Love Bank balance in your heart. Her balance is not over the Romantic Love Threshold. You are not "in love" with her at the moment. That means you're experiencing Conflict. It's helpful to evaluate what is triggering those conflicts!

Prognosis: Good!

Prescription:

1. The Rule of Honesty. Let your wife know how you are feeling. Let her know that you feel like her Love Bank balance is running low, and you'd like to brainstorm ways to bring the balances up again together.

2. The Rule of Protection. Protect your wife from your most destructive instincts (Love Busters). Remind her when she engages in Love Busters, and suggest alternate activities using "I love it when you..." and "I'd love it if you..." requests.

3. The Rule of Time. Are you spending at least 15 hours per week meeting one another's intimate emotional needs? Specifically, are you spending all your recreational time together, sharing affection, having regular long and intimate conversations, and frequent sexual fulfillment?

4. The Rule of Care. Are you meeting your spouse's other emotional needs, and is she meeting your top 5 needs to your satisfaction? Do you know what those are, and can you name how you have met them every single day?

My two cents.

Here's the problem; should you discuss the A and have new information divulged, you will likely experience the pain of betrayal all over again.

I think doormat is correct, your lovebank balance is in the red. Feeling this bad this far out is an indicator that you have not replaced the bad marriage with a great marriage and, as such, are easily triggered.

You did the right thing by NOT talking about it. Talking about it brings the past into the present and actually makes it WORSE. So if you had been talking about it, you would be worse today, not better.

I can see that you might have been triggered by other affairs around you, but is there something else? Is your W in touch with the OM? Does she flirt? Is something about her behavior bothering you?

I agree with this. And would avoid bringing it up unless there is really something important you need to know. New information will take you back to day 1 of recovery. It will be bad.

Highroad,

I am working with this issue now, but it has been 20+ years, and the problem is that details/triggers keep coming up and have surfaced at regular intervals. My W now feels that it is too far in the past to talk about it, although I know she thinks about it often, so for the time being I've abandoned asking her and am tracking down OM.

Did you get OMs side of the story, or has your WW write out a timeline, or a polygraph?

Given my experience I would suggest you get it all out now. One of the things my W did admit was that after OM2 she never felt the same about me. I don't know if that is true in your case, but you don't want your wifes guilt about what she did not tell you reducing the quality of your marriage for years on end.

God Bless
Gamma

Isn't that because your wife has lied to you about the affairs and never come clean? See, his case is completely different. She gave him the basic information and was willing to provide even more information. The reason you are stuck is because your wife withheld information. The reason he is struggling is not the same reason you are.

If he has the basic information about the affair, then bringing it up again will harm his recovery, not help it. In your case, it will help because she has withheld information from you and never committed to any program of recovery. In marriages where the WW withholds information, the BS does stay stuck and even suffers from emotional and physical problems.

My point is that the solution for your marriage would be a disaster for his marriage because the situations are very different.

I cannot even fathom why a BS would tolerate the withholding of basic facts about an affair. Why would you tolerate that, gamma? A spouse who withholds critical information is not remorseful and has not earned forgiveness - that spouse is an active WAYWARD. An active wayward is not marriage material.

Alarming.

I think the affairs with family members has you recalling your WW affair and this remembering is causing the triggers.

As they divulge what happened in their affairs you wonder if these things happened in your WW affair. Perfectly normal to react that way.

Now you may think you need to know more now. Being that you have a WW that will answer any more questions think this through before you act.

Ask WW how would her discussing the affair now would effect her? Ask WW how could she handle being asked to give up every detail.

Then think how important knowing is to you. Be aware that once you hear and answer the answer can't be unheard.

I have been trickle truthed about every 5 years for 30 years. I haven't even heard the tip of the ice berg.

Thing is how much does WW remember?

When will you know if WW really dosen't remember?

How will you put to rest the questioning when WW can't answer some facts when she no longer truly remember?

How are you going to react when WW answers are the same as the worse that you imagined that happened during the affair?

I sit in limbo wondering myself.

Good points all.

1. She does know. Granted I have always been slow with radical honesty on this subject due to the fact that it's walking a fine line between honesty and a LB. I know the line is there, but it takes care to stay on it. Instinct is to stuff it. Regardless, she does know how I've been feeling.

2. I'm brushing up on this. To be honest, when I was active here, things were much different. MB principals were more suggested than the adamant demands they are today (the change is good, just stating). I've read all the Harley books, but have recently started revisiting them to get myself back into that line of thought.

3. Time - yes, while I don't keep a log of our personal time together, we do make a point to spend our free time together with very few exceptions. Those exceptions are always mutually agreed upon and are few and far between. It's either the two of us or time as a family.

4. I refer back to 2. It's been a while and I am in the process of re-evaluating EN's. I need to dig our last list out and compare what we get now.



Nothing in her behavior is a trigger. I don't suspect anything or have any bad feelings in that area. I know the exact date of last contact w/OM (coming up on 8 years) and she has never been a flirt. Not that it absolves my W of anything, but in her A the OM was and OMW were very close friends. She and my W would share things (our M issues were one) and those things would get to OM through his W. He took advantage of that information on purpose.

Too, I may have worded myself wrong or given the wrong impression initially. At this point I'm not interested in details of the A. I don't want to know all of that crap...I think some of it comes from stuffing the emotion of my own feelings from that time. There was a little over a year between DDay and the A ending for good. That was not a time that I could effectively tell my W what her actions meant/did to me...she was in no place to hear it. That was Plan A time. I think I got in such a habit of dealing with the hurt internally that once the A was over and she was in a place to help me with that, I just continued to stuff it in until it abated some. That's really what I'm referring to when I say 'talking about the A'. More about the damage done, not having her detail what she/they did. I have no desire to hear that.

Thanks for the clarification. It HELPED you to not talk about it. Do you know that? Talking about the hurt caused by traumatic events does not make the pain better, it makes it worse by bringing the past into the present.

I think the biggest problem is that you have not transformed your marriage and that is evidenced by the amount of UA time you get together. I suspect you feel like she is not really in love with you, don't you? SEe, this program doesn't work without the UA time. Without that, you are not in love and without that you are just limping along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage nursing resentemnts.

In other words, when the trauma of the affair is not replaced with a passionate, romantic marriage, RESENTMENT fills that hole. That is what I believe happened to you. You can change that if you make a serious effort at scheduling QUALITY UA time every week. That means no kids, friends, or TV, just you two meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs. It will make a huge difference, I promise you.

Our counseling culture society has taught us - wrongly - that "stuffing feelings" is a bad thing. That only talking it out is therapeutic. That is nonsense. It is actually the opposite. If you want to read up on this get the book "One Nation under Therapy" by Sally Satel, MD. Much of what we are taught about recovery from traumatic events is hogwash.

I have the world's most remorseful formerly wayward wife. I do.

My woes are mine. In my head. Im only 8 mos. post dday so but a mere pup in terms of recovery time compared to you. Your posts certainly come very close to my thoughts. Although she claims there is nothing left to tell and, alas, I really dont want to know some of the things circling in my noggin, Im afraid Im going to spend the next 8+ years with unanswered questions.

Like yours, my wife would be willing to tell me anything I ask.

I see myself walking in your shoes.

Its such an odd existence she has carved out for me. Im doing my best to accept it, but I cant say for sure I will able to do so forever. I usually get the MB technical questions like am I meeting the minimum UA and the rest when I talk having thoughts of wavering in my recovery. And, yes, I am doing as much of the technique as I can.

I sometimes think why would she want such a mental mush that created as her husband anyway.

I following your thread with a bit of concern that Im going to follow in your shoes and still be having issues 8 years after it was supposed to over.

Huh.

I don't ever want to come across as someone who denies the obvious (way too much of that here) or can't step to the side and look at the situation from a different angle. That said I wonder if I overstated what's going on, or maybe it's the use of the word resentment. I really don't think this is the emotion I'm experiencing. I for sure don't resent my W in any way. Our M does not resemble what we had pre-A....is it exactly where it should be? For sure no, and I realize that there is always more work to do, but it is nothing like the shamble it was back then.

UA time....can always be more, but we do schedule time for each other. Evenings with no TV, no computer, no phone interruptions....as close to unplugged as we can get without turning the power off...and we spend those evenings discussing what's on our minds. I've not put the timer to it though.

Again, not trying to come across as argumentative at all....you make excellent points. I just wonder if I came across too strong. I can't see that anyone can go through an A and ever totally leave the memories behind. It's learning the best way to deal with them when they arise that befuddles me at times.

Oh...as for the in love question...wasn't ignoring that. That's an excellent point and one I've got to consider.

I know that my M can be better than it is now, but the issue of my W's A is really not something that I deal with often. I came back here to see what other people deal with years later. In some ways I don't see the feelings I have about the past as abnormal at all and I don't want to come across to someone in your shoes as in a desperate situation 8 years out. I'm not. I love my W and my M and we work well together. I just know that we can work better...that's what I'm after.
I never want to forget what happened....sometimes those memories are what keeps the defenses sharp and the boundaries in place.

The lie has existed longer than that, and the key term is "catharsis."

A quick Google search will turn up the studies showing that catharsis only INCREASES negative feelings and behaviors.

Beyond that - I can tell you that acute psych units don't counsel in this way; instead, coping mechanisms and life skills are emphasized.

I agree with TheRoad. I think this is what's happening. People who have undergone a senseless tragedy have a tendency to be sensitive about hearing of a similar tragedy happening to someone else, especially close family members. They can personally identify with the tragedy.

I'm glad you re-stated this. I was initially concerned because you originally said you were 'reluctant' at a point to talk about the A. That's a lot different than being uninterested in talking about it.

I don't think anything good would come from discussing the A for you. My H and I are only three years out, but I wouldn't want to bring it up. It drags the elephant back into the living room, and we banished that elephant some time ago.

Reluctant in the sense of what people here are saying. Not wanting to bring the past up due to the negative emotions it would cause and being able to keep it to myself because the memories coming to mind were sure to be short lived. That seems normal to me (but I could be wrong). And when those times have come, it's not been details of the A that I was reluctant to discuss, it was bringing the subject up at all.
It's hard to hide those emotions because my W can always pick up on it....I am honest with her to the point of letting her know that I'm just having some thoughts about the past (due to a trigger or whatever) and politely declining when she offers to go into it further.