I am starting a new thread for this question

I have been immersing myself in MB for a while now and my H and I have implemented a lot over the last two years of our deeply wounded marriage. My husband has a history of extreme LBs regarding SF. We both have had trouble with LBs and we read and worked on Lovebusters a while ago to some success. We have been getting 15-20 hours a week of UA time for about 9 months, at least 15 hours a week away from home/child.

We got thru the ENQ and the affection portion. His number 1 need is SF and I get the lowest score for meeting it. My number one need (right now) is affection and he is not meeting it. He does know how to meet my need for affection but has not felt "affectionate" towards me. He also was unaware that what he thought was affection was not affection etc. So I am hopeful that improved affection will help things.

Now, I know my husband has a high need for SF and having immersed myself in MB and these forums I understand the importance of it and how a spouse feels when they don't have that need met etc. I myself have a moderate need for SF so I do have a clue I am not low drive.

I have read ahead to the SF section and it's giving me panic attacks. While there is undoubtedly room for some fun improvement, everything outlined in the chapter is running smoothly. I get almost a zero for meeting my H's need even though I regularly (at least once a week) demonstrate willingness and I have no problem with arousal, climax etc. We NEVER talk or cuddle after SF, H refuses. Yes, this plus the total lack of affection leaves me feeling sad and empty EVERY time we have SF. And yet, I have kept aversion at bay (when I have a drive) and continue to demonstrate willingness at least once a week (not waiting for him to ask or initiate) and rarely reject his advances.

Here is the problem: My H needs at least some SF where he doesn't have to do anything. It is making me feel desperate and hopeless about meeting his need. It is making him feel like his number 1 need is unmet. To be precise: we go to bed, I cuddle up to him/touch him/kiss him (I do not want or expect cuddles in bed that do not lead to SF, this is just me initiating physical contact) and he just lays there. He gets really frustrated that I then either continue non-sexual affection (which he "hates") followed by manual stimulation or I get upset and go back to my side of the bed. What he wants is an active enthusiastic sexual encounter where he does absolutely nothing, no embrace, no kissing, nothing. Flat on his back. As of right now I do not want to fill this need. It makes me feel crappy and extremely turned-off. This problem has the potential to end our otherwise decent MB-style marriage. I find it hard not to DJ him about it. SF, when he is an active participant, is good enough that I am able to meet the need enthusiastically. I imaging that SF could be much better if my number one need was being met at all and if he would be willing to cuddle or talk afterwards.

He claims that even when we were doing what he wanted as often as he wanted (early in our relationship) his need wasn't met because he had to initiate.

Am I being paranoid or ridiculous for feeling desperate and panicked that my husband's #1 need for SF is not being met AT ALL even though he has a willing and responsive wife?

His #2 need is AS and I am meeting that need completely (according to him). No porn, no affairs.

He is willing and enthusiastic about MB and is excited for me to meet with a sex therapist if I am unable to meet his need. I don't think I need therapy if I have the willingness/arousal/climax thing down pat. I realize that I may get 2X4s about not wanting to meet Hs need, but the thought leaves me 100% ready for divorce.

Edit for honesty: I am extremely uncomfortable with my H in bed but I am 100% sure it is him and our relationship and not sexual issues on my part.

What a fantastic problem to have !!!

I'm serious.

This is totally do-able.
You just cannot keep doing what you are doing and hoping to get better results next time.

I strongly urge you to contact the Harley's coaching center and get specific behavioral steps to take which will remedy this.

Congratulations on no affairs/porn.

The Harleys are opposed to reluctant agreements to do anything. It fosters resentment (as you've brought to light here).
I believe they do support some bargaining however - it came up in a recent radio show but not much elaboration. - might be something to ask about in an email to the show.

I can tell you from years of SF issues in my now-deceased marriage, DJ's won't help your situation...

I would expect there will need to be more insight gained by your spouse as to your feelings. POJA and good conflict resolution techniques call for understanding each other's perspective. There-in will probably lie your answer.

I don't think sexual counseling will apply to your situation.
Harley would also say he is responsible for you being in love with him and that requires that he meet your need of Affection - without it you will have trouble getting to your romantic threshold and things will get way worse for him...

opt

This is real easy! Explain to your husband what you need to be aroused via affection, etc. Tell him that you don't enjoy SF without that lead in and that you don't enjoy sex where there is no embrace, no kissing, etc. In order to have a great sex life, you have to do it in a way that you BOTH enjoy, not just one. SEx without affection just makes women feel used so don't agree to do that.


The NEED is for sexual fulfillment. It has nothing to do with who initiates. Again, it has to be in a way that pleases you both, not just one. Your H needs to read the article, The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? so he will learn how to interest you in sex. Sex, when unaccompanied by affection makes a woman feel used. And pretty soon she will have an aversion. Don't let that happen!

It would be bad for your marriage to continue to do this. He would be gaining at your expense and would NOT have an "active enthusiastic sexual encounter" if he asks you to do this. If he wants you to be enthusiastic, then obviously it has to be done in a way you BOTH like it. Don't agree to do anything you don't like. Speak up and tell him no. Find ways that please you both.

Bounce

I meant to ask what AS was...

Also, you're taking the course and you read ahead. So, I would expect by the time you get there, you'll have developed some building block strategies to manage this issue with good strong understanding of each other's position. You'll be able to approach the question with concepts you have both learned. I have great hope for you two.

opt

O_o

And here I thought it was an Attractive Spouse...

Crap!
You're probably right. ????

PEP!!!!!

I don't remember reading about THAT in HNHN!

I deleted my insanity.

No time to reply in detail, but I was referring to ENQ needs and AS is attractive spouse what's the correct abbreviation? I threw it out because I think it can affect SF if it is a top need I'll be back with an update later

oh, I just thought it mean attractive spouse! You people and your dirty minds!

Dr Harleys says in Willingness to Desire

"The same principle should be followed whenever a man wants his wife to desire sex: He must create the conditions that allow her to enjoy the experience effortlessly. "

So there is the problem right there! He wants the SF, but HE wants to enjoy the experience effortlessly!

Also in http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/ss/50-1e.html

"You are still thinking that it's your sole responsibility to get yourself in the mood to make love. I suggest that your husband has more to do with it than you do. He has the testosterone, you don't. So he should take the initiative every time for the foreseeable future, and "tap you on the shoulder." Waiting for you to take the initiative assumes you have already solved your problem and you already have a sexual desire. Quite frankly, even after you experience desire, he may still need to take the initiative, particularly if he wants to make love two or three times a week. "

So how to get your DH to step up if HE is the one that wants more SF?

You could try: "Since you have more of an urge for SF than I do, I would like to try something. Whenever you want SF, I want you just to (ask, tap your shoulder, whatever you like). I promise to have SF with you. But I want to have foreplay and snuggle afterward for about 10 minutes. What do you think about that?"

If he isn't interested, talk to the Harley's and see if they have any ideas!

Great post, wannabophim!

wannatry, make sure your husband understands that the goal is to please you BOTH and that you won't be agreeing to anything that makes you unhappy. The SF is the one emotional need, that when met in a way that makes you unhappy, will make your marriage miserable because it creates an aversion. And trying to have sex without affection will do exactly that!

another idea:

If he says "I want SF without having to do anything" you could say "Is it fair if I say I want Domestic Support from you without having to do anything? You decide what needs to be cleaned and do it all and I will just sit there? or is it more fair that if I have more interest in the house being cleaned that I come up with a list of chores that need to be done and let you pick the ones you like the most first? It is not fair for either of us to say "No, not interested". But how can we make it easier for the other person."