H and and I were meeting for lunch the other day and OW showed up at the same resturant. I got there first and had already ordered and sat down. OW was in line waiting to order, but I didn't know that was her. H comes flying in and lookss like he is going to be sick and says let's just go to the park and eat. H seemed to be on edge the whole time we were having lunch. I thought about during the rest of the day. When I got home I asked him what was wrong. He told me OW was there and he wanted that time to be spent focusing on me.

I must say this was the best possible thing that could have happened for me. I have wondered for so long what she looked like. Now that I know I can't believe "that" was what all the fuss was about. My self image and self esteem was not at its highest after our daughter was born because it was taking me longer than I thought to get back to normal. I feel so silly that I let myself be intimidated by someone that is that unattractive.

I am worried that H is not feeling the same high that I am. We have been doing great with UA time and really talking a lot. I think he is feeling fresh shame and guilt again.

Has anyone else went through anything like this?

My husbands OW was much older than me and very unattractive, but its wasnt about looks...she listened to him. It was a huge blow to my ego and I am still extremely embarassed. (I was a playboy playmate and bikinI model, I still look the same!) Unfortunately my husbands greatest needs are not SF or physical attraction. Such a tough pill to swallow...especially in our small town. I' m sure everyone thinks something is seriously wrong with me if even my man strayed! Honestly, I wish OW in our case was better looking...less embarrasment!

I know the feeling. My FWH's OW was heavy, short, wears lots of makeup and hair products, and smokes......all of which my husband had always said he hated that was why he loved me. I'm just about normal size wise (could lose about 10) dont wear makeup or hairspray and never smoked.

There doesn't seem to be any good reasons why they would be with someone else when they were married to us............I think the ws's are in a weakened state and they seek out the same type of women, they don't have to be better looking or thinner they just have to be available and willing.
Did they leave us for those women? No, because they know we are better .......
My husband didn't chose his OW and she is 10 years younger, long blonde hair and just as good looking as I am.....I am thinner but I was also sick and not looking the greatest, my hair had fallen out, I was thin.......so looks aren't any part of what it really is.......it is just because someone else was there and they let them be there......
They are selfish and entitled and none of it makes any sense........
None of us should feel badly about what someone else chose to do.......
I think our WS's didn't have to be as good with the OW as they did with us, they could be lower class and be careless with their lives, it simply is less work for them, they didn't have to try to be considerate, compassionate or respectful..........It is easy when they have a cheerleader to make them feel they are right and justified........
It is easy to not live morally when you have the same thinking type of person you are spending your time with...........
and we were taking care of their families.............
You should be proud of being better than taking on the role of a skank like she did ........you act with grace and forgiveness that is the real difference between BW/BH's and OW/OM............

Hah!

�There doesn't seem to be any good reasons why they would be with someone else when they were married to us�

Ladies, count your blessings.

My wife�s 10 year OM was a tall, muscular, handsome fighter pilot (scarf streaming out behind him even when standing in a closed room) � smart, witty, lady�s man extraordinaire and according to wife was by far the best lover this side of the Mississippi.

Maybe he was one of your husbands?

I don�t even try any more.

The love of my life is a short, balding redhead. I fantasize about him during the day when we are apart. I can't wait to get home to him. I'd rip his clothes off at the door if our kids weren't there

He's a short fella. He's got red hair (that I've never been attracted to before). He's got fat feet. He makes weird noises in his sleep. I think he's a hottie.

Dang, do I love that man.

Mind your business, NG! You're gonna take a cartload of horse-dung for this!
Be brave, NG! Maybe the comment will be received well.
Dammit, NG! I hate when you get all honorable!

TS, I think this is the second time that I recall you've brought up your past playmate and bikini-model past. I'm not knocking any of that, but let me make the following point:

In college I was the lightweight stroke of my school's successful crew team. We certainly have folks (mostly men) who have fought in combat in their earlier adulthoods. I've never before brought up my past, and those heroes haven't said a word about theirs, because we know to focus on our more recent lives to understand what happened to us, and try to recover from it. My participation in winning a specific rowing championship could NEVER be a realistic cause to expect fidelity from my bride. ("You cheated on me with HIM? But I've got more medals...")

Our histories help create who we are, but they cannot continue to be who we are. It's that "who we are" that is the focus of what we're trying to learn here, and one of the major tenets is that AS is but ONE of the ENs the sourcing of which binds us as couples.
Feel better, NG? Now get the H3LL off this thread and don't come back!

Struggling, that happened to me, too!

H's OW is strikingly homely, older than both of us, wears a lot of make-up (something he said he's never liked), and weighs almost twice as much as me.

He often said that no one ever treated OW as well as he had, and that was why she wouldn't let go. H felt needed by her. No one else would ever want OW, and plently of guys would want me if I was single.

After 3 D-days and finally NC, H and I went to a restaurant where our son was playing the guitar. Many of H's present and former cowokers had come that evening. OW was there. She had driven 40 miles. One of her "Friends" had invited OW, and she sure put on a show.

We were ignoring her, we were affectionate together as we usually are out for a night on the town, and OW went ballistic. OW followed H into the men's room to tell him off for being with me. I went in after her. OW seemed to have been under the impression that H was going to miss her and pine away for her forever after he told her NC. H wouldn't even give OW the satisfaction of turning around or looking at her.

OW was deluded and thought she was very, very important and commanded my H's respect. He'd never said an unkind word to her. OW had met my H's needs of admiration and conversation.

OW came to our table and got in my face and yelled at me. I told her she was gross and had bad breath. OW then told me, in front of everyone, to come out to the parking lot. I told OW to go home and stay there. She left w/o my H speaking to her or even loooking at her.

Like you did, I felt triumphant and victorious. I was struck by her up-close unattractiveness. H was a bit revolted, but said that it was something that needed to happen (an almost bar fight with OW throwing a tantrum, and H giving me all his attention with OW right there watching H in love w/ me) for OW to get it that the A was over.

H always said I was way prettier and smarter than OW, but it just blew me away to see that he'd been so in love with someone so disgusting.

You're a bad boy, NG. But you DO have a good point.

TS, the OW in my sitch was thinner than me (I could have stood to lose about 10 pounds at the time of the A, as well.) I would consider her prettier than me, but not by much. (I'm not a bombshell, but I'm nothing the cat dragged in, either )

Naturally, my ego was terribly beaten and bruised after D-Day. I asked my H if she was prettier than me, and he always answered the same way: "It wasn't about the looks. It was about the hits." She could have looked like Rin Tin Tin and he still would have been attracted to the emotional hits she was giving him by flirting and need-meeting. She was constantly admiring him (gee, guess what one of his most important ENs is ) He hit the slippery slope the second he responded in kind.

I think we get distracted by noting the obvious (physical appearance) and missing the less-obvious needs (admiration, SF, conversation). Comparing looks is easier than sharpening up your conversational skills and making the effort to admire the things about your partner that are cause for admiration.

I think physical appearance is important, but isn't necessarily the Be All, as you have discovered.

You have been given a gift: You now know that, while you are no doubt an attractive woman, your H has other needs that appear to rank higher in importance than physical appearance. Understand what those needs are and perfect the art of meeting them.

I would say the skank is the complete opposite of myself. I have morales, value, and character, something the skank lacks. I even said that to the skank, along with the fact she is a sponge who lives off the scum of society. The skank probably had to look all those words up.

Physically completely different as well, last time I saw the skank I threw up....it is just repulsive.

Thanks for sharing everyone.

While an AS is in H's top 3 EN, admiration is #1. When A started I know I was not meeting this EN. I was engrossed in trying to be the best mother I could to our daughter and was still nursing. That and work pretty much summed up my existence. I know OW was meeting this need. H has also made the comment that she was not as complicated.

I am glad that thanks to MB I know what H's EN are. Now I have to put what I have learned to use and meet them.

I know, I know NG, most people dont even know this about my past and my accomplishments at home, in sports, school, church and LIFE are way more important, but this thread was about how generally folks affair "down" I could make a laundry list of qualities that I have better than the OW, I'm just pointing out the obvious and its sucks and its embarrassing to me. She met needs I never did. It doesnt really matter how "awesome" you are, you have to meet the needs of your spouse.

Struggling, my focus had always been on being a good mom too. Which EN is AS?

NG, I think it's a helpful perspective. We women learn from an early age to place more importance than men do on being pretty/looking attractive. It is really engrained in some of us, and feelings of inadequacy can be particularly acute in this area. (Not that every BS doesn't feel inadequacy)

Why are you hating?

The oar's men carried your butt. Just like being on a NFL team for whole season and rode the bench and go around wearing a championship ring.

Championship by association.

I won the 8th grade spelling bee.

quote=NeverGuessed] Mind your business, NG! You're gonna take a cartload of horse-dung for this!
Be brave, NG! Maybe the comment will be received well.
Dammit, NG! I hate when you get all honorable!

TS, I think this is the second time that I recall you've brought up your past playmate and bikini-model past. I'm not knocking any of that, but let me make the following point:

In college I was the lightweight stroke of my school's successful crew team. We certainly have folks (mostly men) who have fought in combat in their earlier adulthoods. I've never before brought up my past, and those heroes haven't said a word about theirs, because we know to focus on our more recent lives to understand what happened to us, and try to recover from it. My participation in winning a specific rowing championship could NEVER be a realistic cause to expect fidelity from my bride. ("You cheated on me with HIM? But I've got more medals...")

Our histories help create who we are, but they cannot continue to be who we are. It's that "who we are" that is the focus of what we're trying to learn here, and one of the major tenets is that AS is but ONE of the ENs the sourcing of which binds us as couples.
Feel better, NG? Now get the H3LL off this thread and don't come back![/quote]

I think by AS (attractive spouse?)you mean the emotional need Physical Attractiveness? Dr. Harley gets a TON of flak for having this as a top 10 Emotional Need (according to the Online Seminar) "Shouldn't it be what's on the inside that counts?" say the critics. The fact remains that PA is a need many men have in their top 5 (but not my husband!) My husband's #1 need is Admiration, a bit difficult to meet after the affair as I felt thrown under the bus. Working on it! And while I think sporting accomplishments are AMAZING, (well done!!!) they arent an EN, dang!

Kind of a t/j... I don't know why he should get flak for stating what other needs have proven to be. It's not like he made them up, he just listed his research out.

CV

*** Self-Protective T/J ***

Hey TR, your ignorance is showing! Again! (Still?)

The STROKE of a rowing crew is an oarsman, the one who sits directly in front of (and facing) the COXSWAIN (whose "butt" we carried, in your construct), usually the biggest, baddest, strongest, most enduring oar-handler.

And "lightweight" is a term that limits the average weight of the oarsmen in such a boat to 170(?) pounds.

Championship(s) by ACCOMPLISHMENT, dude!

*** End of T/J ***

If I am super honest- the OW look like she could be related to me.

She has the same coloring, the same type of eyes, and the same frame/body type. She is like a younger, less attractive me. I'm pretty cute. **paranoid**

However- she doesn't look as feminine as I do. When we didn't know she was the OW, and my spouse was taking my children to meet her on the downlow- my daughter- without knowing who she was- reported that Daddy's friend was almost pretty, but too much like a man to really be pretty.