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#2591676 01/30/12 09:47 AM
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He is remorseful, there is no contact, doesn't seem to be withdrawing and he is willing to do anything to help us recover.
Yet, I get so mad about some of the details. He went out to lunch with her and drinks on the same day A WEEK after they met? I mean, he was ready and willing... This scares me so much. What to do? I don't want to lovebust him...

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I understand what you are going through. I have the same problem. I found out Jan 5th about my husbands affair that is over but I continue to feel very hurt and angry at times. The devil is in the details. My husband went to Tenn with OW. Took her on our Harley. Spent countless hours with her. It hurts and its hard to stay in control at times to help the recovery. My husband will talk about it if I am calm but he is getting warn out from it so I keep it to a minimum. He says there is nothing more to disclose. I vent through friends, journaling, exercise and prayer. My husband said the further he is away from the affair the more he realizes how stupid it was. So ensure your spouses affair is OVER. Expose it if not. Keep him accountable through friends, schedule, pastor, etc. I am GPSing my husbands car. I truly believe it was hell on earth for him at the end so he wont go back but peace of mind is a good thing
for you.

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I nuclear exposed and it's over... still spying though.
Still so hard to think how fast it happened. We talked about boundaries and the slippery slope ad nauseum after my A. That's why I don't get this....

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K,

Snooping is good. Two years after ALL the lies came out, I still snoop once in a while, whenever the mood hits me. It makes me feel safe.

What boundaries has your H instituted? Dr. Harley advises that the environment of the affair or conditions that allowed the affair to happen be eliminated. Has your H done this, i.e. however he met OW and how he conducted that A. Changing the environment is part of just compensation.

I understand the anger. I was very angry for a long, long time. But we had a tough go with trickle truth and a false recovery.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Originally Posted by kstockett
I nuclear exposed and it's over... still spying though.
Still so hard to think how fast it happened. We talked about boundaries and the slippery slope ad nauseum after my A. That's why I don't get this....


Your affair put him/BH on the slippery slope to affair land. The image of you and OM bumping bumped BH onto the slippery slope.

Your BH was left with the feelings of WW got to have extra fun. It left you ahead in one upmanship big time.

It left BH sad, hurt, angry, mad, and thinking about possible revenge.

Fighting OM he puts OM in the hospital or OM puts BH in, jail, and or both, with BH being sued by the OM in court. Imagine a BH getting sued by the OM because the BH beat the manure out of OM.

Yet the BH can't go to court to seek justice, compensation, revenge, anything to redress that the OM banged his WW.

As Harley's say all are wired to be tempted to have an affair. That is why boundaries need to be placed and maintained.

Your PA gave your BH the excuse to delude himself that it was ok to have a RA. That an RA would even the score. BH re wrote history just the way a WS re writes the history to justify having an affair.

So as your BH was struggling with recovery he paid lip service to the boundaries that you wanted in place for the both of you post your dday.

You realize the importance of boundaries post dday and were needed for the both of you.

Your BH realized that you talk one way and did another.

The Old Actions Speak Louder Then Words.

So BH did as you did and became a WH.

End of story.

You will not be the first or last wife that was unfaithful and her husband had an revenge affair.

Whether WH or WW it almost never fails that when a RA happens they usually never thought that this could happen as a result of their original affair.

Yes there is the WS that wants to slam their BS when they have a RA holds back giving their BS/WS hell because they see themselves as being with sin and can not throw the first stone. Not too many of those kind though.


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We have a list of about 15 precautions in place that will never put him in that position again. Yet, I guess if he wanted to have another A he could, as could I. I do NOT. I want to be married to him and have an authentic relationship. He says he does too. We talked about the slippery slope a lot and I said if it could happen to me it could happen to him. He didn't believe me.
Yes, we realized the boundaries and TRANSPARENCY needed to be in place for both of us.
My A was not a good enough reason for my husband to have his. He swears it was not a revenge affair or that he was looking for something... He fell off right away though. I'm not sure what that means for us.

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kstockett

I think the fact that you deceived your H that the affair was an EA for a long time when it was a PA was a blow your BH couldn't cope with.

God Bless
Gamma

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so he coped by having his own? Now what? Will we ever recover?

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Originally Posted by kstockett
so he coped by having his own? Now what? Will we ever recover?



Yes.


Spend the money on some quality Harley counseling. They're maybe more expensive then me. Though I have to admit they have the edge on quality.

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Originally Posted by kstockett
My A was not a good enough reason for my husband to have his. He swears it was not a revenge affair or that he was looking for something... He fell off right away though.



No truer words have been said.

But I don't believe your BH/WH when he said his RA was not and RA. He may not of been looking deliberately looking for a RA.

But when he was being tempted with the opportunity and the good angel on one shoulder was fighting with the bad angel on the other shoulder, your affair had left the good angel to fight the good fight with a broken wing, banged up halo, that was dim as well.

All the bad angel had to keep saying every once in a while during the fight was that WW got to have her extra fun. Why not you?

I don't care what your BH/WH claims that this was not a revenge affair. He used this as a justification.

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KS,

Will we ever recover

Yes but since you only revealed the PA, if I am reading correctly, 7 months ago it will take a minimum of 2 years from that time, with some time throw in for the false recovery when BH thought it was only an EA.

Although I did not cheat on my W after her affair, mostly because of what it would cost my family, it does make the struggle men have with physical desire that much harder. In my pre-MB days I would have said that it invalidated my fidelity to my W.

Did you get tested for STD?

God Bless
Gamma

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Gamma - yes.
But I'm guessing it's gonna be two years from his DDay this January..
So you guys are saying that it was almost inevitable that he cheated? Is my anger misplaced? I feel I don't need to take any responsibility for his A.

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Originally Posted by kstockett
two years from his DDay this January..


it was almost inevitable that he cheated?


Is my anger misplaced?


I feel I don't need to take any responsibility for his A.


Yes two years from January.

No not inevitable. Most BS's don't have RA's.

No. No one likes to be cheated on. Why do you think there is a tendency amongst many WS's where they become paroniod that their BS is going to cheat and start watching their BS's like a hawk.

No. As your choice to have an affair is all your responsibility. So is your BH/WH's responsibility to have his affair. You would think that he would of learnt that your PA did not solve problems for you but only create new and much worse problems for the both of you. So he should know that BH/WH having his own affair would not solve anything but only add to the mess.

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KS,

I get the feeling that you did not confess the PA part of the affair to your H willingly or on your own, how did it come out? Was he annoyed that you were reluctant to talk about the affair?

So you guys are saying that it was almost inevitable that he cheated?

Not inevitable, but perhaps how you handled exposure, how much money was spent, who the OM was, the sexual details, the 2 d-days, etc may have pushed him even more in that direction or caused him to give up inside. As men we bottle emotions up for years although we see placid on the exterior.

Pre-marriage builders I thought a revenge affair was the right of a betrayed spouse, so I'm not sure I wouldn't have done what your H did.

Is my anger misplaced? I feel I don't need to take any responsibility for his A.

Agreed he chose to go down that path rather than divorce you first, I think most people here understand that a revenge affair does not cancel out the misery, but doubles it so I'm am not saying your H was justified.

It's not that I think you are responsible for his affair, it's just that I sense your affair was not recovered from, and that created the foundation for his affair.

God Bless
Gamma

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
He may not of been looking deliberately looking for a RA.


Most first-time waywards will give you the line, "I didn't intend to have an affair" or a similar statement. It's part of the wayward playbook. And it's true in most cases.

Don't psychoanalyze your spouse's intents. What matters is their actions.


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Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
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We are doing well. However, fight last night. I told him how unfair it was that I talked to her employer and called her Mom and brother and because of that, she went to the police. I said I just told the truth to stop the affair and I got in trouble for it. He said, "life's unfair." I wanted him to say, "she's a skanky b.... and you did the right thing" I said how unfair it is that I might see her around town as we belong to the same country club and she occasionally attends university basketball games, where we have season tickets. He said yes, but what should he do? Call and ask her to move? I said you better not ever call her that's breaking NC. He agreed and said he's trying to do everything he can and that we won't go to any basketball games we can choose another activity, which totally misses the point.
ARGH!

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KS,

He said, "life's unfair." I wanted him to say, "she's a skanky b.... and you did the right thing"

After 20+ years my W still does not see OM2 as anything other than admirable he was all fun and excitement and left W with very few, if any, ugly memories.

If your H has not read MB he might be subscribing to the popular notion of former affair partner as downgraded to friend.

Your H is also expressing the idea that your A was unfair and this was just tit for tat.

God Bless
Gamma

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He says he has no positive feelings about his A or her and I said if he did I wouldn't be married to him.

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KS,

I understand what he said, but sometimes what is said is said diplomatically, and it can be difficult to square their actions and words, or even their word with their words.

If I am honest about pre-marriage former girlfriends I can tell you that I liked physical details of one vs another, darker nipples being more attractive to me than lighter ones for example. So I find it difficult to believe that a man wouldn't find something better on the OW since men are so visually driven.

God Bless
Gamma

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so you're saying he's lying about the positive feelings about her? There can't be anything about her physically over me, maybe conversationally...

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Maybe not physical, but examine the ENs that she offered. I've seen Huz-wife dynamics, and sometimes they arent very friendly. My own WW wandered, and seemed to offer the perfect GF experience for the OM. Maybe he was the perfect BF, but he met needs that I neglected.


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oddly enough, it was during the time I felt I was meeting most all of his emotional needs for the first time in 2 years - SF, conversation, affirmation..
he said it was the "newness" and the fact that someone was interested in him that was appealing.... barf.

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Then he's guilty of poor judgement and lacks principle. You really need to examine what led to the A, and what circumstances made it possible, and examine if he's worth salvaging.
He can't live in an "anything goes" world, without serious consequences.


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Yep, we've looked at all this and put a list of MB boundaries in place along with NC and transparency. What he doesnt' know is why he jumped off the cliff with her the very next day they met! He may have been asked but he was ready and willing.
He knows my dealbreakers and he says he hates himself.

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At least he shows some remorse... now if he'd at least show some respect to you!
Someone needs to straighten him up and get him to man-up to being responsible.
I'm sure you're beside yourself, and he may even look hopeless.
Do you have a good male friend who can talk some "man-sense" into this guy?


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last night I pointed out that she had the police call me (he thought her husband did) but no, it was actually her, and I also told him she was his accomplice in breaking my heart. I didn't ask what he thought but I said any person who did that to him would be detested by me. He agreed. He also apologized for the "unfair" comment as I said I was looking for the "you did the right thing." He has told me that before and didn't think I needed to hear it again. He said, oh, you need reaffirmation. YES! So, progress.
Said he wants some time to process what he did - a few minutes to himself a day. I said that sounds fine but I hate the fact that there may be times he's thinking about her while he "processes" this. ugh!

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Originally Posted by kstockett
I said how unfair it is that I might see her around town as we belong to the same country club and she occasionally attends university basketball games, where we have season tickets. He said yes, but what should he do? Call and ask her to move? I said you better not ever call her that's breaking NC. He agreed and said he's trying to do everything he can and that we won't go to any basketball games we can choose another activity, which totally misses the point.

k, I think your H is actually right on point.

You shouldn't go to those basketball games, you will have to quit that country club, and you might even need to think about moving in order to ensure NC.

One of Dr H's rules is once you have your Qs answered about the A, you stop talking about it. Please stop trying to get your H to slam OW. There is a LB$ balance there since she met some of his ENs and those feelings don't just go away. When you talk about her, you are just triggering him (and yourself) and you guys end up in a discussion where you are lovebusting each other.

If you want to vent about OW, do it here.


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Originally Posted by SadDude
At least he shows some remorse... now if he'd at least show some respect to you!
Someone needs to straighten him up and get him to man-up to being responsible.
I'm sure you're beside yourself, and he may even look hopeless.
Do you have a good male friend who can talk some "man-sense" into this guy?

I don't understand where you are coming from with this. From my read of the thread, he has implemented NC, has implemented EPs, is being transparent, and is working MB. He is remorseful and stated he "hates himself".

Why do you think he isn't manning up?


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SusieQ - point taken. It's just hard sometimes. I have to act all cheery and fulfill his ENs and I feel like crap most days.

He has manned up and is doing almost everything right.

A friend just said to me, "you won, ok! So, stop overthinking things." but when your self esteem is in the dumps, it just gets crazy inside my head.

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You don't have to act all cheery! And your feelings WILL diminish, but not if you keep talking about the A/OW. Avoid triggers as much as possible...

Keep working the plan, k. It's going to get better, I promise... smile

Now what about that country club and the basketball games? *I cannot stress how very dangerous those activities are to your M because even if the A doesn't reignite, you are both going to be triggered and set back, even if you don't see her.



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true, there is no way I can go to a bball game without being triggered and he says he won't go either. DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK THAT OF HIM?
CC - I'll never go again. His business pays for the membership but we don't have to use it. He occasionally takes customers there for lunch. SHOULD I TELL HIM IT'S OFF LIIMTS? It's too bad - and that's what's so unfair here - it was a nice perk, same with the tickets.

Another sad story: last night I realized that as I was self punishing myself about my own A I asked for no Christmas gifts from him. He was in the A at that time but I didn't know a thing. He gave me gifts anyway. When I realized the irony of this I sobbed, he held me and I pulled it together pretty fast. I had earlier destroyed everything I made him and won't wear the Tiffany necklace he gave me with our initials on it. Just too hard....

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"true, there is no way I can go to a bball game without being triggered and he says he won't go either. DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK THAT OF HIM?"

You been here how long and you act as if you never heard of NC. No more bball is doing NC. So is quitting the contry club doing NC.


"CC - I'll never go again. His business pays for the membership but we don't have to use it. He occasionally takes customers there for lunch. SHOULD I TELL HIM IT'S OFF LIIMTS? It's too bad - and that's what's so unfair here - it was a nice perk, same with the tickets."

Re read what I just wrote then add it don't matter who pay's for it going there is breaking NC because the OW can be there.

Hint.

You want a hint?

Whether you want one or not that is not the only bball team route for and only CC to be a member of. The other options may not be as good but there are consequences for having an affair. The piper wants his due.

Another sad story: last night I realized that as I was self punishing myself about my own A I asked for no Christmas gifts from him. He was in the A at that time but I didn't know a thing. He gave me gifts anyway. When I realized the irony of this I sobbed, he held me and I pulled it together pretty fast. I had earlier destroyed everything I made him and won't wear the Tiffany necklace he gave me with our initials on it. Just too hard.... [/quote]

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Originally Posted by kstockett
true, there is no way I can go to a bball game without being triggered and he says he won't go either. DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK THAT OF HIM?


Originally Posted by kstockett
CC - I'll never go again. His business pays for the membership but we don't have to use it. He occasionally takes customers there for lunch. SHOULD I TELL HIM IT'S OFF LIIMTS?

k, don't make this more difficult than it needs to be. This is a consquence of his straying and endangering your M. It's not a punishment.

He seems to understand that he needs to take extraordinary precautions to avoid seeing this woman ever again. Approach him about it in that way and additionally discuss any other way that you two could run into her and how to avoid this. Especially if she lives in your town.


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thanks for all your help...

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K, I posted to your thread over on Operation Investigate and I hope you read it. I am worried...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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