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#2592062 01/30/12 06:18 PM
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I find myself in a custody battle after my wife had several affairs. The last one was exposed to my children (early teens, boy and girl) in age appropriate ways (innapropriate relationship, dating, etc.). Now that is being used against me with the custody evaluator as an example of me exposing the kids to adult issues. Anyone have experience fighting this battle?

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How is it being used against you? You simply told the truth and tried to get others to help you.


Me: BH 36
Her: WW 34
Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9
DDay 1-6/2009
DDay 2-9/2011
DDay 3-11/2011
Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011
Divorce final May 24, 2012
My Story



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Sbt,

Lying to your kids and keeping them in the dark is almost worse than losing custody. If the kids don't know the truth they blame themselves. Can you imagine telling you kids "we broke up because we had PROBLEMS"

God Bless
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Originally Posted by Sbt
I find myself in a custody battle after my wife had several affairs. The last one was exposed to my children (early teens, boy and girl) in age appropriate ways (innapropriate relationship, dating, etc.). Now that is being used against me with the custody evaluator as an example of me exposing the kids to adult issues. Anyone have experience fighting this battle?

Sbt, a corrupt wayward will use anything against her spouse, so just expect it. Here are some good quotes by Dr Bill Harley, a licensed clinical psychologist about lying to kids.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

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The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

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My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by GJM
How is it being used against you? You simply told the truth and tried to get others to help you.

Wife is making it an issue with the custody evaluator. It's being positioned as a pattern of exposing the kids to "adult issues". i.e., a lack of healthy boundaries with the kids. I don't know how the evaluator views this. Although I'm guessing the evaluator may be in the camp of people who "strongly disagree" with Dr. Harley's view on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Sbt
Originally Posted by GJM
How is it being used against you? You simply told the truth and tried to get others to help you.

Wife is making it an issue with the custody evaluator. It's being positioned as a pattern of exposing the kids to "adult issues". i.e., a lack of healthy boundaries with the kids. I don't know how the evaluator views this. Although I'm guessing the evaluator may be in the camp of people who "strongly disagree" with Dr. Harley's view on this topic.

You might want to explain that many psychologists believe that lying to children about the source of tension in their home causes enormous moral confusion and often leads children to believe they are the source of the problem. It also teaches that lying is acceptable when they eventually find out about the affair. It is much better to hear about it from a parent, than via rumors at school. Adultery is not an "adult issue" since it affects the whole family. Simply put, it is irresponsible to lie to kids about what is happening to their family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Sbt
Originally Posted by GJM
How is it being used against you? You simply told the truth and tried to get others to help you.

Wife is making it an issue with the custody evaluator. It's being positioned as a pattern of exposing the kids to "adult issues". i.e., a lack of healthy boundaries with the kids. I don't know how the evaluator views this. Although I'm guessing the evaluator may be in the camp of people who "strongly disagree" with Dr. Harley's view on this topic.

You might want to explain that many psychologists believe that lying to children about the source of tension in their home causes enormous moral confusion and often leads children to believe they are the source of the problem. It also teaches that lying is acceptable when they eventually find out about the affair. It is much better to hear about it from a parent, than via rumors at school. Adultery is not an "adult issue" since it affects the whole family. Simply put, it is irresponsible to lie to kids about what is happening to their family.



State your beliefs. (examples below)

I believe children should be told the truth and the facts affecting them and their family in an age-appropriate way.

If something or someone is disrupting a child's life, that child needs to be assured that he/she is not the cause.

If a child is given a truthful explanation, they can be appropriately comforted and protected.

I know lies are never the answer to problems and never provide long term protection. I want my children to learn that lying is not an appropriate response to a problem.

For example. If one parent had a serious and possibly terminal illness, the situation should be explained to children in age appropriate ways.

For example. If adultery is breaking the family apart, the situation should be explained to children in age appropriate ways.

I firmly believe I am responsible for the moral development of my children. I will teach them right from wrong."Mommy has a boyfriend.This is wrong. Married people are not supposed to date anyone outside the marriage." Or, "Daddy has a girlfriend.This is wrong. Married people are not supposed to date anyone outside the marriage."

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
[
I know lies are never the answer to problems and never provide long term protection. I want my children to learn that lying is not an appropriate response to a problem.

I so agree with Pepperband's approach because rather than getting into competing professional advice, you are stating your own beliefs as a parent and taking ownership. That cannot be debated and disputed. After all, you are the only one here that has the children's best interest at heart. A wayward does not [as evidenced by her adultery and other destructive behavior] and the GAL does not. The GAL doesn't even know your kids, much less care about them. The GAL is not morally and legally responsible for your children and does not have to answer for bad parenting: YOU DO.

If you state your beliefs and even use Harley as a back up source, you will be fine.

When I got divorced, I was shocked to be told that I had to have my "parenting" reviewed by some unknown crapwit bureaucrat in the court system. Fortunately, my youngest was 17 so I was able to tell them to buzz off. I feel sorry for those of you with minor children.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Me refusing to move out of the house is being positioned against me also. When she filed she requested that I move out of the house. She said she needed space to figure things out. I said i would be happy to help her find a place to live and would even pay for it. She has asked two more times over the last year that I move out. I have refused. Now she is positioning with the custody evaluator that I didnt move out and asked her to move out knowing that this wasn't the best thing for the kids so obviously I don't have the best interest of the kids in mind.

I see the craziness in this I just dont know how custody evaluators see this kind of stuff.

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Again, state your firm beliefs.

Example:

I believe children should not be exposed to adultery. Me leaving the marital home so my wife can carry on her adultery in the marital home is unacceptable. I will not send the message to my kids that adultery is OK.

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Again, state your firm beliefs.

Example:

I believe children should not be exposed to adultery. Me leaving the marital home so my wife can carry on her adultery in the marital home is unacceptable. I will not send the message to my kids that adultery is OK.

Thanks. I'm going to post more in a day or so. I could really use some help. My wife filed for full custody and I fear that she is going to get that or at least majority custody. She has been a stay at home mom and is claiming among other things that I was an absentee father until she filed. She is claiming much more and is very convincing.

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Originally Posted by Sbt
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Again, state your firm beliefs.

Example:

I believe children should not be exposed to adultery. Me leaving the marital home so my wife can carry on her adultery in the marital home is unacceptable. I will not send the message to my kids that adultery is OK.

Thanks. I'm going to post more in a day or so. I could really use some help. My wife filed for full custody and I fear that she is going to get that or at least majority custody. She has been a stay at home mom and is claiming among other things that I was an absentee father until she filed. She is claiming much more and is very convincing.

Does adultery count in your state?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Read this study and copy some of the more relevant pieces.
It's a very reliable source.

LINK to US Dept of Health and Human Services

One very useful section for you.

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The Child Abuse and Father Absence Connection

This article talks about the increased risk for abuse at the hands of the mother's boyfriend.

LINK to MSNBC

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Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri data published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.

Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

Girls whose parents divorce face significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University.

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LINK to US Nat Library of Medicine


Quote
Child Abuse Negl. 1992 Jul-Aug;16(4):541-51.
Child abuse by mothers' boyfriends: why the overrepresentation?
Margolin L.
Source
Division of Counselor Education, University of Iowa, Iowa City 52242.
Abstract


This study showed that although mothers' boyfriends perform relatively little child care, they are responsible for substantially more child abuse than other nonparental caregivers. Using data drawn from interviews with single mothers and records of child abuse substantiated through child protection investigation, mothers' boyfriends' overrepresentation in child abuse was traced to five conditions: (a) the location of their child care in single parent families; (b) their gender; (c) the absence of genetic relationship between mothers' boyfriends and their partner's children; (d) mothers' boyfriends' perceived illegitimacy as caregivers and family members; and (e) mothers' boyfriends' rivalry with their partner's children. The limitations of these findings and implications for future research are discussed.

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Link to a Catholic publication

Quote
Cohabitation, Child abuse, and child neglect

This is an excerpt from an article by W. Bradford Wilcox, "Suffer the Little Children: Cohabitation and the Abuse of America�s Children" Published on the Witherspoon Institute website April 22, 2011.
According to the [federal report, the Fourth National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect], children living with their mother and her boyfriend are about 11 times more likely to be sexually, physically, or emotionally abused than children living with their married biological parents. Likewise, children living with their mother and her boyfriend are six times more likely to be physically, emotionally, or educationally neglected than children living with their married biological parents. In other words, one of the most dangerous places for a child in America to find himself in is a home that includes an unrelated male boyfriend�especially when that boyfriend is left to care for a child by himself.


But children living with their own father and mother do not fare much better if their parents are only cohabiting. The federal study of child abuse found that children living with their cohabiting parents are more than four times more likely to be sexually, physically, or emotionally abused than their peers living in a home headed by their married parents. And they are three times more likely to be physically, emotionally, or educationally neglected than children living with their married biological parents.
a 2005 study of fatal child abuse in Missouri found that children living with their mother�s boyfriends were more than 45 times more likely to be killed than were children living with their married mother and father.


... [A] 2005 study of fatal child abuse in Missouri found that children living with their mother�s boyfriends were more than 45 times more likely to be killed than were children living with their married mother and father.

State your firm opinion:
Example:

My greatest desire was for my wife to end her adulterous affair, return to the marriage and work with me to provide our children with a safe/loving/stable 2 parent home.

My wife chose her adultery partner over the best chance for our children to reside in a stable marriage.
I refuse to step aside and blindly trust my children to be raised by two adulterous adults.





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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Sbt
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Again, state your firm beliefs.

Example:

I believe children should not be exposed to adultery. Me leaving the marital home so my wife can carry on her adultery in the marital home is unacceptable. I will not send the message to my kids that adultery is OK.

Thanks. I'm going to post more in a day or so. I could really use some help. My wife filed for full custody and I fear that she is going to get that or at least majority custody. She has been a stay at home mom and is claiming among other things that I was an absentee father until she filed. She is claiming much more and is very convincing.

Does adultery count in your state?


No.

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
Wife is making it an issue with the custody evaluator. It's being positioned as a pattern of exposing the kids to "adult issues". i.e., a lack of healthy boundaries with the kids. I don't know how the evaluator views this. Although I'm guessing the evaluator may be in the camp of people who "strongly disagree" with Dr. Harley's view on this topic.
A divorcing wayward will sink to many depths to get the upper hand in a divorce. Of course, she's going to try to use exposure against you. She'll probably be lining up anything she can think of to use against you.

I've bolded part of your post up above. Can you explain what the 'pattern' is? I don't see a pattern of exposing your children to adult issues. Telling them the truth about their lives in an age-appropriate fashion is not a 'pattern' of anything except telling the truth.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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A link, just in case you've never heard of paralell parenting .

(notable posts forum)

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In yesterday's radio show (rebroadcasting now, 2/1/12) Dr. Harley goes into a lengthy statement about infidelity and how it affects children (and how waywards try to spin the whole thing and how kids often cut off communication with wayward parent). All in response to an email.
It obviously reiterates the above excerpts from various writings, but the spoken word in this case is quite powerful.
worth a listen.

~optimism


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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