A question for all the waywards out there... I know that an affair is the development of real feelings for someone else. Yes there's fog to enable thatn to happen, but it's no different than the way your relationship with your spouse developed, in the beginning. I guess it's normal that fond feelings for the OP, or at least a rosy picture of them, remain for awhile even after the heavy fog has lifted. How did you get beyond that? DID you get beyond that? At one point, were you finally able to look back and say "that person was the piece of sh*** who tried to destroy my life"? Or did you settle into "I made my choice and they're not a part of my life anymore"?

BS's, how did you reconcile your natural hatred of the OP with your spouse's take on them?

In the end I don't care what happens to OM. All I want is for it to be that NC never breaks even by accident for all parties. Never had contact with OM, or learnt his identity. All I remember was being concerned with was getting OM out of our lives. No internet for me back then. I think it was a Dr Judy on WOR radio pm comute drive home a few men called asking how to end the affair. Point that Dr J said was do not bad mouth the OM to WW. It will only make WW more defensive and cling harder.

Now I have been here long enough to know affair happen usually because needs were not being meet.

So you have a the OM that will do what he has to to get SF from the WW.

Then you have the WW that will give up SF so she can keep the OM meeting needs her BH is not.

The need for NC after the affair is that the love bank deposits the OP made are still in the black with the WS. Their relationship was not based on reality there was no leaving socks on the floor, nothing done to drain the OP love deposits into the red.

You have heard of the phrase guilty pleasures. People do something they know is wrong but do so anyway and thoroughly enjoy the experience. Example the SF could of been no better no worse with BS and OP. What the WS enjoyed was the thrill of something new, getting away with pulling the wool over the eyes of a Gambini.

The obese person regrets eating that cake. The cake was no good for him. But he still has the memories of how the good the cake tasted.

That is the way with affairs. Bad and good memories. The WS compartmentalized their mind and put the BS in a box out of view so they could enjoy the OP.

Post affair the OP gets packed away into a box and is forgotten, but the OP is usually packed away with the LB deposits they made.

I think once the WS defogs and admits the PA was wrong and that they rewrote marriage history to justify the PA. That what they wrote about the OP was just fiction. But they still feel the OP met many needs that were being unmet and they enjoyed them being met. Just like the cake eater regret and good memories about eating the cake.

So I think post PA there has to be a conflict within the WS where they hate what they did to their BS and regret what they did with the OP rather then hate the OP.

Now the conflict post PA with the BS is the regret that they did not meet their WS needs, regret and hate that WS let the OP meet those needs. And have nothing but straight up hate for the OP.

Each spouse places blame and regret differently. This is why the the level/type of hate can never be the same.

Very interesting. I hadn't heard about never badmouthing the OP to the WS, that sounds like a good rule anyway.

I'm curious to hear from a WS about this, especially someone with an A several years ago. Do you still have positive feelings about the OP? Were those deposits saved over time, or did time apart withdraw until they had the negative balance your BS thinks they deserve?

I can't speak to the WS point of view since I was not one. I would guess this would depend a lot on how the affair ended and why.

I'm interested in hearing this too, if anything, for the psychological perspective!

It may be hard for some BS's to read, however, that their FWS still has warm fuzzies for the OP. Having said that, we DO deal in realities here - and O&H!

A close Doc H equivalent is never try to educate a WS during an affair. Which can include pointing out the OP's short comings.

Another support that I just thought of... I was advised never to argue against my WW while she was in the thick fog. Wish I could remember the source, but the gist is to always agree as much as you possibly can, because 1) those thoughts don't stay with her for more than a day before a new rationalization comes along, and 2) the fog wants her to argue with anything you say. It wants to make you the bad guy. Agreeing short circuits this desire, and makes her more likely to start arguing against the idea she just brought up, just is you can be the bad guy. Very good way to short circuit the stupid "open marriage" and cake eater rationales.

That advice works on the same principle... that opposing her just makes her shore up the argent, which makes it stronger in her mind. Better to let it die a quiet death of time.

I'll throw in my two cents. I'm both a WS and a BS. My A was many years ago. I think how it ended is key to answering this. My A ended by me deciding it was wrong and breaking contact. The OW respected my wishes and ended all contact with me. This puts me in the "I made my choice..." category. Memories fade a bit with time. For example, I remember having deep conversations with OW but I can't remember anything we said.

The key points for me are:
1. I realize now that I WAS A POS FOR HAVING AN A!
2. I have decided I never want to be that kind of man again.

After this my emotional come back started.


I'm only a few months in recovery from my WW's A. What I do is try to categorize the OM as a past boyfriend. They had some good times together but WW chose me and is with me.

Bingo! I had a response and was stuck on how to phrase it, but mbtechguy's words solidified it:

Yes, I made my choice, ended my A, and I chose my H (whatever consolation that brings him, which is probably zero) - however, as to While I agree that as time has dragged on in our failed/failing recovery, I do not look on POSOM with any degree of fondness anymore - have not for a very long time. He was and is a POS - BUT - I am just as much at fault. In fact, I see myself as MORE at fault, because I have control over my actions. I can't control how others act, but I can control me. POSOM had no obligation to uphold my wedding vows. I did. I am the one who broke them. So I see my former wayward self as a POS who destroyed my own life.

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense and I as a FWW agree completely. My H thinks the same way that OM have not promised him anything, I have. Knowing that helps to keep my focus on myself and of what I can do to make it work again.

I also found Mark's thread about Managing Memories and dealing with triggers extremely helpful.

WPG,

Great post. Reminded me of one of the 'final' conversations I had with W about her affair/OM.

Whereas I want to be extremely angry at OM, my W heaps all of it on herself, and reminded me that OM had NOTHING to lose -- she did, which makes it even more tragic that she CHOSE this course of action.

Months after exposure, she stated that she never wants to run into OM again for obvious reasons, but one also being she's embarrassed/disappointed enough as it is and is almost...afraid, for lack of a better word, to see the low level of a 'man' she gave herself to...actually seeing hom would not be good (I did WHAT....with THAT???).

Additionally, she flashed some anger and said she felt incredulous, a fool, that she actually apologized to OM..apologized TO HIM for getting involved with him, portraying herself as someone she's not, her poor decision, etc....and yet OM NEVER apologized for a damn thing....not breaking the vows, the damage to the kids, not even the STD (OM actually suggested I may have given it to her...unbelievable...). W was kinda slapping herself for that one...in such a fog that she felt the need to apologize to OM....

Thanks for always sharing -- it helps alot of us BS's out here...God Bless.