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SC I just want to reiterate her asking for a divorce from you several times in your marriage was her way of letting you know you were not meeting her needs.

The goal is to take that information and meet her needs at this moment. Don't focus on "a little too late" venom out of her mouth. You are the best choice ... now is the time to up the Plan A and kick some serious adultery butt.

What attracted her to you? Become that man ... become what she wanted in you when you first married.


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Originally Posted by Mortarman
I remember going through recovery. And our first anniversary after we started recovery, I remember my wife saying "Wow, we have been married 15 years." And I thought to myself (and wanted to say to her but didnt): "I have been married 15 years. You have been married 9."

SC - this is the level of grace your as leader of you family will work become. This is personal recovery. Taking the hurt, anger, resentment, cruelty, and venom and molding them to your forgiveness. This will only happen in recovery. If she does divorce, then you Plan B her butt for ever.

Understand if you are to ever have a great relationship with any other woman ... you will need to again become that man who leads by Grace. It won't make sense right now ... with time and personal recovery you will begin to come to this point.

The idea of MB is we are responsible for our own actions. No matter how low, cruel, and abusive the wayward becomes ... we betrayed have to hold our heads, integrity, and character at a higher level. It is the only way to go forth ... live life with Grace ... don't let her cruelty beat you down. Show your children how to really love a woman (warts/adultery/and All)

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Originally Posted by shescrazy
Awesome info guys!

I need to stop playing the head games with myself. What if she gets pregnant? What if she gets a DUI partying? What if she catches an STD? What if she files? What if she moves with my kids? What if she won't let me see the kids?

I need to stop that crap! I'm punishing myself!!! I don't need that extra crap on my shoulders right now! I need to decide SO WHAT if it happens! I don't care she already left me! It's not me that has to pay for it! She has to live with herself! I KNOW for fact she is not happy on the inside, she cries all the time!

Dude, that stuff all crossed my mind too. In a weird way I wished something like that would happen so that she would hit rock bottom. I didn't want anything bad to happen, just wake her up. But I don't worry about that anymore, doesn't do any good and what's gonna happen on her side is gonna happen. Like everybody says here, you can only focus on yourself and your kids. You can't (and shouldn't) control her. She has to learn her own mistakes. That's the attitude I'm taking. I'm here for her, she knows that. If she lets the divorce go through, then I will no longer be there for her.

SC, just letting it go and being the best dad and person I can be has done wonders for me. I haven't even tried to change, I'm just reverting back to the nice, laid back guy I was when I met my wife. That's the way I was and it feels great now. I've had other women tell me that I'm charming and nice, and that some nice girl is going to snatch me up! And I'm not even trying, have no desire to. But it lets me know that I'll be just fine if it comes to that.

My wife knows me, she's known me for 26 years. That part of her is still buried in her. I will be courteous towards her and a gentleman. But I will no longer be her doormat.

Remember, you didn't lose her, she lost YOU!


Me: 49
WW: 45
Married almost 23 years
Together 26+ years
DS18
DD15
D-Day: 7/28/11
Separated: 11/18/11
WW filed for D on 2/14/12 (3 days after near full exposure)
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Just a note SC, my wife already filed a couple weeks ago, yours hasn't. So while I've been giving you some advice and information, it's based on what I've been through so far. I'm a little bit ahead of you in this saga, so you can at least learn from what I've done (wrong & right), and maybe it will help you formulate a successful path forward. But for the stage you're in right now, I would listen to what the vets are telling you, and use my information to perhaps fill in some cracks.


Me: 49
WW: 45
Married almost 23 years
Together 26+ years
DS18
DD15
D-Day: 7/28/11
Separated: 11/18/11
WW filed for D on 2/14/12 (3 days after near full exposure)
D final: 9/17/12
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I think I just screwed up but it felt GOOD!!!

I was in the shower and my wife came over with the younger 2 kids. She opened shower door and said we need to talk. I go into living room. Her and all 3 kids were in there. She started making demands about our 13 year old would come to her house on her week. She was demanding other stuff also but I don't remember it all. I finally got a chance to talk I asked all 3 kids if they wanted us to get a divorce, all said no. I then told her I wasn't filing for divorce. She got livid and started getting louder and making more demands. I finally told her to GET OUT of my house. Needless to say she left pissed off!


15th anniversary on 1-18-12
D-Day 1-29-12
She moved out 2-10-12
No divorce filed yet!
She has asked for divorce several times! Normally when she's mad!
3 kids 13b, 11g, 4b
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I don't have a problem with what you did. But a learning opportunity here...

Instead of saying "Get out of MY house..." how about saying "this is not going to in our home. When you can come here to engage as a family...as a part of the family, then you are welcome in the family home. Until then, you need to leave."


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By the way, you saying you aren't doing divorce in front of your kids is HUGE! You just officially became their hero!!


Standing in His Presence

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FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
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Originally Posted by Mortarman
By the way, you saying you aren't doing divorce in front of your kids is HUGE! You just officially became their hero!!

ITA. HUGE.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted by Scotland
Originally Posted by Mortarman
By the way, you saying you aren't doing divorce in front of your kids is HUGE! You just officially became their hero!!

ITA. HUGE.


It felt GOOD!!! I'm still on a high from it! Best I've felt since January 29th.


15th anniversary on 1-18-12
D-Day 1-29-12
She moved out 2-10-12
No divorce filed yet!
She has asked for divorce several times! Normally when she's mad!
3 kids 13b, 11g, 4b
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Originally Posted by shescrazy
Originally Posted by Scotland
Originally Posted by Mortarman
By the way, you saying you aren't doing divorce in front of your kids is HUGE! You just officially became their hero!!

ITA. HUGE.


It felt GOOD!!! I'm still on a high from it! Best I've felt since January 29th.

That's good! You have now had some success. And you will have more as time goes along. Of course, there will be setbacks. So just understand that this is gonna take time to work itself out...whatever way that is.

To summarize: In your kids' eyes, Dad is defending the family. Dad doesnt want divorce. Mom is running around like a crazy woman...and is flying off the handle every two seconds.

Which parent do they respect? Which parent is doing what they want? Which parent is looking out for them?

They KNOW this! And you just cemented that in their minds.

This is one of the reasons why you dont file. Because, at the end of it all, if it doesnt work out...your kids will still be able to say "my old man did it right." And they wont blame you!

I am of the mind that you might want to write a letter to her now, clarifying things. Not a Plan B letter...but just a letter that lets her know the lay of the land. Something that says:

"Honey, I wanted to write this so you understood where me and this family are right now. You and I started this family when we married. We expanded it with our great kids. All 5 of us are a part of this family. You have chosen to walk out on the family. But make no mistake, you are still a part of it. No one in the family but you wants what you are doing. You are the only one that wants this family to end.

So, because of this, the rest of us will continue on with the path that you and I set and our kids became a part of. We will continue to move all of us forward in the direction that is best for all of us.

Should you want to return to the family, the door is open. This is your family also. Your home. Your future.

But I wanted to say also that what happened the other night cannot happen again in our home or around our kids. They are going through enough with your absence without having to hear and see that. So, it is best that if you want to talk divorce, then speak with an attorney and have him contact my attorney. I will not be participating. But I cannot allow those discussions and the heated conversations in our home. I am trying to make the family home a safe place for our kids.

I love you, even with everything you are doing to me and to our family. We will continue to move forward, hoping that you will return to us."


Okay, do you notice a theme here? I keep talking about this as a family unit. That she isnt just walking out on you, she is also walking out on the kids. The family. I refer to the house you are in as the OFFICIAL and LEGITIMATE family home. And her place? That is where they go visit.

Be exact with your words. Your kids are roughly the same age as mine were when it happened. And I made sure to have them term the two places as this:

Your place: "Home"
Mom's place: "Mom's house"

When they were coming to my place, I had them say they were "headed home." When they went to their mom's, they were "visiting Mom at her place."

And once I had them doing this, then when they said it around her, it would bug the crap out of her because even the kids were saying that she was illegitimate!

She will fume over all of this. But they are not love busters. What you are doing is setting the boundaries. Your wife has left and things have been in a spin. This is you establishing order in the chaos. Now, even though you cannot force her back, you are enforcing these boundaries. And as the lsuggestion for a letter said above, you are making a safe place for the family. All of you!

The more she appears on the outside the better. Remember, you arent forcing her out of the family...she is choosing to leave it. Words are very important, so couch your words in that manner.

If you noticed, you are treating her almost as if she has died. On how the family will go on without her. Well, in a way, she has died. Your wife that you married NO LONGER exists. And she never will. Right now, you are dealing with a Wayward Wife that almost no one would want. So, you must protect the family from this stranger!

But, in Plan A, you are also trying to reach deep inside her to find the wife that still exists. She will be a new wife. Not the same as before. But quite possibly even better! You may not ever get to her. But that is what this is all about...a chance for that wife to come out, that mother to come out. To have time to escape the monster she is residing in. And again, she may not be able to escape. But right now, you dont know.

So, look for opportunities to Plan A. Send some flowers today, saying "I love you, miss you." That'll throw her for a loop after what happened at your house!! LOL

But at the same time, shore up your boundaries, protect them. And make sure you continue to get the kids on the pro-family team. Note: Dont do things to turn them away from her. Do things that turn them towards the family. There is a difference!


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Excellent Mortarman advice. Again.

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Excellent Mortarman advice. Again.

weightlifter


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

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Originally Posted by Mortarman
"Honey, I wanted to write this so you understood where me and this family are right now. You and I started this family when we married. We expanded it with our great kids. All 5 of us are a part of this family. You have chosen to walk out on the family. But make no mistake, you are still a part of it. No one in the family but you wants what you are doing. You are the only one that wants this family to end.

So, because of this, the rest of us will continue on with the path that you and I set and our kids became a part of. We will continue to move all of us forward in the direction that is best for all of us.

Should you want to return to the family, the door is open. This is your family also. Your home. Your future.

But I wanted to say also that what happened the other night cannot happen again in our home or around our kids. They are going through enough with your absence without having to hear and see that. So, it is best that if you want to talk divorce, then speak with an attorney and have him contact my attorney. I will not be participating. But I cannot allow those discussions and the heated conversations in our home. I am trying to make the family home a safe place for our kids.

I love you, even with everything you are doing to me and to our family. We will continue to move forward, hoping that you will return to us."

I'm going to add this to my carrot/stick thread. Thanks.

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Lawyer Update:

I spent 1.5 hours with lawyer. He is my sisters father inlaw. We see each other at birthday parties and such and hunt together. He hadn't seen me in awhile now and didn't recognize me last night at my nieces birthday party. He said I've aged years and lost way to much weight.

I need to accept only half this situation. I've been taking blame for all of it. I need to realize she probably isn't coming back. Is me hanging on like this good for me or my kids?

I can NOT keep OM away from my kids.

He said me telling kids about affair has to stop NOW. The judges in this area will frown on that 100% and not treat me good about it.

He said there is no say on anything about our kids. If I want to take them on a trip to New York I can do it and not say anything and so can she.

With my oldest wanting to live with me full time. A judge hates to separate kids.

I should get residential CUSTODY since my oldest wants to live with me only and i would have more say about what happens with kids. If I file FIRST!

By me filing first I will be on the offense, that's a good thing.

Her affair will look horrible in judges eyes. That is a plus for me.

Now what should I do?

Last edited by shescrazy; 03/09/12 12:53 PM.

15th anniversary on 1-18-12
D-Day 1-29-12
She moved out 2-10-12
No divorce filed yet!
She has asked for divorce several times! Normally when she's mad!
3 kids 13b, 11g, 4b
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Find another lawyer. I don't know of any state in the US where one parent can't block the other parent from having overnight "guests" while the children are in the home. I have a friend who had that put on her, and they weren't even married. I believe the wording was something along the lines of "No overnight visitors of the opposite sex, excluding family, without the benefit of marriage." You should also be able to request that the children not be taken out-of-state without prior agreement of both parents in writing. IANAL. We have some on board, though, so hopefully they will chime in.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Originally Posted by shescrazy
Lawyer Update:

I spent 1.5 hours with lawyer. He is my sisters father inlaw. We see each other at birthday parties and such and hunt together. He hadn't seen me in awhile now and didn't recognize me last night at my nieces birthday party. He said I've aged years and lost way to much weight.

I need to accept only half this situation. I've been taking blame for all of it. I need to realize she probably isn't coming back. Is me hanging on like this good for me or my kids?

I can NOT keep OM away from my kids.

He said me telling kids about affair has to stop NOW. The judges in this area will frown on that 100% and not treat me good about it.

He said there is no say on anything about our kids. If I want to take them on a trip to New York I can do it and not say anything and so can she.

With my oldest wanting to live with me full time. A judge hates to separate kids.

I should get residential CUSTODY since my oldest wants to live with me only and i would have more say about what happens with kids. If I file FIRST!

By me filing first I will be on the offense, that's a good thing.

Her affair will look horrible in judges eyes. That is a plus for me.

Now what should I do?

You are in Kansas ... there are laws on the books concerning paramours. I would seek another lawyer ... you need german shepherd going after a WW, especially in the court of law.

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The kids know about mom's affair so you don't need to talk to them about it other than to support them going through this very difficult time and giving them a parent who is strong to lean on and vent to.
You also don't need to accept she isn't coming back. The lawyer is not the word on that.
You are not to blame for any of the affair. Yes, you were not a perfect husband and she was not a perfect wife. She owns this particular betrayel 100% though.
Call a couple other lawyers to inquire about the OM being around your kids. They should give free phone input (in hopes you might choose them for legal matters if you take some).

If your finances are safe and the kids are seeing you and WW, and you don't want a divorce.....why file for one? If you feel you must get more space from this legally, can you file for a legal separation?







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I'm filing for divorce tomorrow! I have the paper work filled out.

I can't think of 5 reasons I want her back!
She is losing her mind more everyday.
She is choosing to be with him over my daughter.
My daughter is so heart broken over events her mom has done since Thursday.
I can never trust her again!
I was so sick of the drama she created in our lives. If there was no drama she created it. I've lost so many friends over the years standing by her, when I knew she was in the wrong.
I'm DONE, my no list is lots longer then my come back list.

By filing now I will be on the offense of the divorce. The way she is going right now, she will totally drive away her kids in a couple months. I've finally come to terms with all of this and I'm ready to be done.


15th anniversary on 1-18-12
D-Day 1-29-12
She moved out 2-10-12
No divorce filed yet!
She has asked for divorce several times! Normally when she's mad!
3 kids 13b, 11g, 4b
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Originally Posted by schoolbus
Let's say you decide to divorce your wife. What can you expect to go through?

You will experience a rollercoaster of emotions. For the first few days and weeks after d-day (the day you discovered the affair), you will have moment-to-moment emotional swings the likes of which you have never before encountered in your life.

Your mood will go from crying, to melancholy, to zoned-out, to desperation, to panic, to hopeful, to elation, to anger, to resentment, to depression, to mania, to despair, and back again - and all in the course of an hour sometimes.

One day can seem like an eternity, and the next can fly by so fast you didn't realize it happened. You might feel like you are losing your mind, because your wayward spouse can say something that sounds almost logical, yet you know it is a lie - but you want to believe it. Inside your heart, you know that your WS is "in there" somewhere, and you might get glimpses of that person you once knew, and when you do you so desire to trust that glimpse, and then the rug is pulled out from under you again. You see what you believe is truth, you don't trust it, you forget things, you look back over your past and wonder "was that REAL, or was that fake?".

As the weeks go by, you find out enough information about the affair that you begin to piece your world back together, at least some of it. You wonder if what you know is true. You wonder if you should reconcile, or if you should walk away. You want to reconcile some of the time, and at other times you think you should throw in the towel and just be done with the whole darn mess. Maybe everyone would be better off if the marriage was over. Five minutes later, or the next day, you wonder what you were thinking, and you believe that the marriage should be recovered, and start thinking about ways to work on that.

After three months or so, you wonder about how the marriage ended up where it was. That initial shock is over, and you have figured out that the blame for the affair itself really isn't on the betrayed spouse - it belongs to the WS. Some of the pieces of the marital problems belong to the BS, others to the WS. You begin to pick up the pieces that belong to you.

As the months pass, you hit the six month mark, and around then you begin to be angry again. You get good and mad, because as a BS, you wonder why YOU have to deal with the fallout of the affair, you have to deal with the pain, and why the WAYWARD seems to go along, LA-LA-LA-LA-LA and seems to just skate away unscathed?????? How does this happen, after the nuclear bomb that WS dropped in the marriage?????

And the rollercoaster of emotions seems to have hills and valleys still, but they are not moment-to-moment, but more like you have up days and down days, or perhaps weekly. Maybe certain things trigger you, perhaps that restaurant you know the affair couple went to, or that shirt you know the WS wore on the movie date that one night when they said they were going to work late.

You hate movies, or you are more careful about choosing them, because you now realize just how many of them have affair themes, affairs included in the plots, or have jokes about affair sex or casual affair scenes in them.

You lose many friends, because you just do not want to deal with people who are cheating on their spouses, or in affair marriages (affairages). You can't hang out with them anymore, because it makes you hurt to the very core of your soul. From your own lips, you hear yourself cursing movie stars and others who openly and cavalierly betray their marriages.

There is a pain you carry, deep inside your body. The pain does not leave you. When you awaken in the morning, it is there before you open your eyes, and greets you as your first thought: "Your spouse betrayed you. You still feel this hurt, and it is embedded in your soul. Some of the pain has been shaved away overnight, but not so much that you might feel the difference." When you close your eyes at night, you know that thought will be your last: "Try to sleep, your love has killed your heart, it hurts........."

And in your dreams, you know that the pain will also echo there.


Know that this will be the scenario, for about two years. The pain and the mood swings and the triggers - they fade over time. They do. It takes time, and work, to get yourself to the point where you can go to sleep and wake up and it NOT be your last thought and your first thought. It does change over time.


About two years, if you decide to divorce your wife.
That means, she will not be there to help you get through this. You are on your own.



Now, if you decide to recover your marriage?????


Same scenario as above. Because the emotional deal is the SAME, either way. You will still hurt. There is no getting around that. You will still have to go through the recovery cycle.

The difference is that if you divorce, you deal with the court issues, separating "stuff", legal paperwork, attorneys, money/finances, all of that. And you do it alone.

My advice is for you NOT to decide on divorce for at least six months. Mainly because you will change your mind so many times between now and then - just because of the rollercoaster ride. And if you do decide to divorce six months from now, there would be a more thoroughly though-out decision made at that point. At least that works in your favor, and allows things to cool off.


If you remain married, you work on your issues as a couple. Your wife and you focus on what went wrong, fulfilling your emotional needs together, she works on making restitution to you, you rebuild the marriage as a new one with the rules you jointly create to protect it from affairs in a better way. MB gives you the plans.



But either way, it is a long, hard road to recover from what has happened. You have a difficult choice to make.

My husband has had five affairs (of varied types), and I had a one-night stand (over 35 years ago). We are recovered. It IS possible to repair a marriage, to fall in love again, and to make your relationship work. Start with the foundation of love, and rebuild from there. I am not saying it is EASY. Worthwhile things are seldom easy.

But they are worthwhile.


Schoolbus

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That doesn't change my mind!

If I don't do this now and she decides to move she can with 2 of my kids. Once I file she can't leave.

Everyone in this town has turned on her and it's going to get lots worse for her. I need to be in charge of my kids and my destiny. I don't need her in her FOG deciding what happens with my kids! I have a feeling the way she is going right now I will have full custody of my kids within a short time.

This is the hardest decision I've ever made but it has to be done to protect my kids from anymore of her crap.


15th anniversary on 1-18-12
D-Day 1-29-12
She moved out 2-10-12
No divorce filed yet!
She has asked for divorce several times! Normally when she's mad!
3 kids 13b, 11g, 4b
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