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My marriage has been difficult for the past few years. Long story short... about 2 yrs ago my wife had brief (2 mos) EA with old high school boyfriend, she realized what was happening she requested we go to counseling. Our first therapist was somewhat effective in changing my behaviors but not hers. I found a second therapist who uses methods similar to MB principals this was much more effective for us (along with what I get here).

We have been doing very well for the past 8 months or so, the best our marriage has ever been. She always commented on how happy she was, how much she loved me and we had been talking about having another child. This brings us up to about two weeks ago. I have been very busy with work and haven't been able to have our alone time or meet some of her ENs (help with our daughter or do house work). I always asked if she was ok and she always said "im fine, i understand you have to work"

This weekend she dropped a bomb on me... she wants a divorce. When I asked why she brought up a lot of my old behaviors which drove her to the EA in the first place and how they hurt her. I have not exhibited any of these behaviors in at least 6 months but she still seems to be hurt by them. She also brought up "never" helping out around the house which I agree I had not been keeping up on in the recent weeks but was doing a very good job up until then. When I asked why she didn't tell me of her feelings sooner she said something like "I shouldn't have to tell you"

I am 95% sure she is not having any sort of affair as I am a seasoned snooper after the first EA and she doesn't really exhibit any cheating behaviors.

I do believe she has PMDD. About a week before her period (which will start in a few days) she gets completely irrational and any little annoyance will cause nuclear war. About 6 months ago she threatened divorce (again just before her period) because we had a stupid argument, she ended up backing down a few days later.

Anyway here I am tonight scared confused angry and sick. We have talked about what happened and she told me some things i have been lacking on (I agree I have been lacking but not enough to warrant a divorce). I have gone into "super husband" mode paying special to her most important ENs trying to show that nothing has changed over the past two weeks and re-affirming my commitment to her.

Here are my questions and fears
1. Anyone here have experience with PMDD?
2. Anything else I should be doing besides Plan A
3. Should I keep up Plan A until the divorce is final (we have not filed yet, and it will take 6mos minimum to complete after filing)
4. Should I even want to save my marriage since my wife seems to have so little equity in it? I cant believe she is willing to break up our family because of a mis-understanding. One of my biggest fears in our relationship is that sometime she can show minimal commitment, like a fair weather fan (this was discussed in therapy and she said I was crazy for thinking it). Even if she does back down from divorce once her period starts I will always be worried about when it will happen the next time.

Sorry for the jumbled story, I'm just confused and exhausted.

Thanks

Last edited by RCX; 03/12/12 12:58 AM.
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RCX,

Welcome Aboard MB !!!!!!

So sorry your struggling right now, I'll give you my impressions

1. My EXWW is was periods were pretty mild compared to what you've got going on. She would get testy but that was about it...... sorry no help on that one

2. Besides Plan-A I would put a DVR in her car and maybe track her as well, I kinda smell a affair on her part in spite of what you said. Only way to know for sure is to look real close. She may have just got better at hiding it, and if there is an A then you have no chance of recovery til that's busted up

3. Yes I would Plan-A until you can't stand it anymore, no one can tell you when you will reach that point. Plan-A is the best chance to move towards recovery (assuming no A is going on)

4. This is where I sense she is a user and sees that her needs are what matters. When you say she has so little invested I have to agree, she in many ways has already left the marriage and now she just wants you jumping through the hoops while she does nothing to help restore the M.

When you walk away from this I think it's important that you know in your heart that you did everything you could to save the marriage and honored your commitment.

Hang in there, I think you still got a chance to save this thing but you're going to have to find a way to get her to engage, Steve Harley does a great job counseling, there is a link to it on the home page under coaching center.

SC


Me BS 54
XWW 51 Divorce final 1/9/12
DS26 DS24 Twin DD's22 Married 29years
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PMDD would not make her ask for a divorce. (Do not get distracted with this idea and go down a path addressing it).

Snoop more. She has someone else in sight somewhere.

Meanwhile, do your best Plan A.

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I would do a better job of snooping because I think you will find the affair has resumed. What are your current snooping resources? Do you have a VAR in her car? Spyware on her phone? That is where I would start. Get cell phone spyware with a built in GPS if you can.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by reading
PMDD would not make her ask for a divorce.

Yes, it would. My daughters and I have had severe PMS/PMDD at times. In a week or two, she will probably be ashamed that she started talking about a divorce. The OP needs to go WITH his wife to see her gynecologist to discuss treatment options for her PMDD. She may also need individual counseling with someone who is familiar with the problem.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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I hope you are right Kirby. Her period started yesterday and she seems to be thawing a bit yet is still insistent on a divorce. How long would it take you and your daughters to come around after your period started?

I have spyware on her phone and gps on her car, nothing unusual in her activity. Like i said she is not showing any signs of an affair, hasn't asked me to move out, hasn't said I love you but not in love... etc. She is always available during the day if i call and we are actually spending more time together. She has no new friends or new activities absolutely noting out of the ordinary. She is a very bad liar and I have asked her several times if she is interested in anyone else, her reply is a sincere No every time (I believe her when I look in her eyes). Believe me I am not in denial, I was actually hoping she was having an affair. I mean at least that would make sense.

Its so absolutely crazy the way she talks, like she wanted a change and had to choose between repainting a room or getting a divorce. But paint wasn't on sale this week so she is choosing to get divorced.

Last edited by RCX; 03/16/12 06:49 AM.
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I am 95% sure she is not having any sort of affair as I am a seasoned snooper after the first EA and she doesn't really exhibit any cheating behaviors.
Welcome, RCX. Can you tell us what type of snooping you've been doing? You may be 95% sure, but it's the other 5% that concerns me.



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Originally Posted by RCX
I hope you are right Kirby. Her period started yesterday and she seems to be thawing a bit yet is still insistent on a divorce. How long would it take you and your daughters to come around after your period started?

It can be 2-5 days after it starts. Yes, it's awful. How old is she? Peri-menopause can do a real number on some women, too.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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RCX,
I wonder if you could give an account for just how much extra work you've been doing and what it means that you "haven't been able to have alone time" and for how long has that been an issue.

Having a condition (which I know nothing about btw) coupled with decreased, or lack of, UA; could in this situation be very devastating for your wife...

...just an objective opinion.

opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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Quick update

Today is the 2nd full day after her period and things seem to be improving... yet she still wants a divorce. I asked her if she felt any different about me this week as opposed to last (pre period) she said that she does feel differently but is sure her negative feelings will return. She said she wants a divorce so she never has to have bad feelings about me again. I gave her a hug and told her I loved her, she almost cried. I believe she is still in love with me but she is just terrified that our relationship will return to the way it was a year ago. Her flight or fight response is definitely FLIGHT both of our therapists have pointed this out to her.

Optimism,

I think you may be right, during the two weeks leading up to her wanting a divorce I was working late hours and unable to return her phone calls. This made her feel like a very low priority. I was also not home when she fell asleep, she loves to cuddle just before bed while watching TV. Not meeting her needs during her "phase" only magnifies her concerns and fears in our relationship. Some symptoms of PMDD are:
- Only able to see the negative traits in people
- Hopeless about the future (including relationships)
Its easy to see how she would feel we were headed right back to where we came from.



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Optimism,

I think you may be right, during the two weeks leading up to her wanting a divorce I was working late hours and unable to return her phone calls. This made her feel like a very low priority. I was also not home when she fell asleep, she loves to cuddle just before bed while watching TV. Not meeting her needs during her "phase" only magnifies her concerns and fears in our relationship. Some symptoms of PMDD are:
- Only able to see the negative traits in people
- Hopeless about the future (including relationships)
Its easy to see how she would feel we were headed right back to where we came from.
okay, so can you start by scheduling some UA time? As much as you can muster. 20 hours would be the goal to get to. At first, she may not be interested in sitting down and looking at a calendar with you, but that's okay, figure out when she will be home and plan to be around at least. After a couple weeks of this she should start to notice. Eventually, 15-20 hours of spending time together, doing things you both enjoy (talking, cleaning the house, NOT watchign tv, WALKING/exercising, cooking, painting something, playing cards)...you can't help being in love with someone. It takes time and commitment but you can do it. I think this would be a great place to start.


opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
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Originally Posted by optimism
okay, so can you start by scheduling some UA time? As much as you can muster. 20 hours would be the goal to get to. At first, she may not be interested in sitting down and looking at a calendar with you, but that's okay, figure out when she will be home and plan to be around at least. After a couple weeks of this she should start to notice. Eventually, 15-20 hours of spending time together, doing things you both enjoy (talking, cleaning the house, NOT watchign tv, WALKING/exercising, cooking, painting something, playing cards)...you can't help being in love with someone. It takes time and commitment but you can do it. I think this would be a great place to start.


opt

This is a great idea. I still think you need to take her to her Gynecologist and discuss treatment options. Don't go in there saying that she has PMDD, just say that she has these symptoms is there anything that can be done to help. Medication can be VERY good thing.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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We have been having UA time as much as possible. This weekend was great we spent all weekend together working around the house and playing with our child. She was in good spirits and even quite flirty with me, however she is still saying she wants a divorce.

When I ask what would make her happy she says "Im so happy right now, but its only a matter of time before you change back". Just to clarify I have been rather grumpy for the past few weeks due to work and I am sure I have vented my frustration to her. It was not intended to hurt her but she took it the wrong way, when I explained this she accepted my apology but said she doesn't want to feel hurt anymore.

Here is where I get mixed signals, last week she was ready to file for divorce but I asked her to wait just one week to let me process everything. She agreed and said she would go this Friday. Last night I told her how sorry I was for making her feel bad for so long. I said I wanted to try to make her happy for our last few months together, she then commented that she thought we should separate before the divorce is final. When I asked why she was in such a hurry to get divorced she said "I'm not in a hurry, i don't think I will even have time to file on Friday". Yet later that night she told me she is trying to set up a meeting with a Realtor to look at a house on Friday.

She hasn't asked me to sleep in another bed, and during the night she will end up on my side and snuggle with me. If she wakes up during the night she quickly jumps back to her side. The other morning when she first woke up she took my hand and held it to her face lovingly, she then realized what she was doing and quickly got out of bed.

If I call her during the day she is super nice and loving, then its like she catches herself and starts being cold to me. Some times she is very loving and sweet to me, then she follows up with a harsh comment like she is reminding me that she hates me.

I see two options:
1. she is trying to get her new life all set up before she leaves her current one
2. she is not sure if she still wants a divorce but wants to watch me squirm for some time

And yes, as of now there is still no evidence of an affair. I have been tracking both her car, computer, and phone and there is nothing out of the ordinary.

I have never been more torn about what to do. For now I will just keep secretly implementing the UA time, it just sucks so much to stew in this whirlwind of emotions.

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In general how effective/successful is plan A when practiced by only one person in the relationship? Could I actually push her away or make her shut down? She says the fact that I am being such an attentive husband is actually pissing her off. She said "how would you feel if you threatened divorce and all of a sudden I had a lot of sex with you"? I told her "as long as I felt it was real I would give you the benefit of the doubt".

My opinion is as long as I am genuinely doing things because it is the right thing to do and the right way to treat her she will have no choice to see that it is for real. Hopefully she is seeing this now and that is why she has not filed for divorce yet, hopefully i have planted a few seeds of hope in her mind. I explained that this has been like a near death experience for me, and I now know what is important in life (its not work). That all of my actions are real and will not stop because she is a good person and deserves to be treated well. I guess I have a few more months to prove this to her... if she still proceeds with the divorce at least im a better person in the end.

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My opinion is as long as I am genuinely doing things because it is the right thing to do and the right way to treat her she will have no choice to see that it is for real. Hopefully she is seeing this now and that is why she has not filed for divorce yet, hopefully i have planted a few seeds of hope in her mind. I explained that this has been like a near death experience for me, and I now know what is important in life (its not work). That all of my actions are real and will not stop because she is a good person and deserves to be treated well. I guess I have a few more months to prove this to her... if she still proceeds with the divorce at least im a better person in the end.
rcx, I don't have much time right now but I want to give you some thoughts later. For now I just have to say this above is excellent. I think you are approachign Plan A right. And you are right to understand that it's the actions, not the words that will eventually make an impact. Consistent actions over time. And if you modify your behaviors (the ones you think were negatively impacting your life) for the RIGHT REASONS as you stated, You really can't lose RCX. Remember too that those actions repeated become habits and habits changed consistently begets a character change - you literally can become a better person by conscientiously changing your behaviors. I can attest (although I'm still striving to improve in some ways, lol).

My ex said the same thing -- "you're pushing me away". I don't know why they say that. She was wayward, I'm not sure your wife is, but it's funny they both say the same thing. I think you're right to tell her how you feel also -- honesty and openness is NOT a lovebuster if presented in a caring and humble way.

You might not be able to sustain plan A forever, but be patient and let your giver take over for now. You seem to be coming at this from the right angle -- knowing that you have set up conditions that have contributed to your wife's unhappiness. You are taking responsibility for your role and trying real hard to make amends. In the process, over time, you will regain the trust of your wife (and yourself). But that doesnt' happen instantly and it certainly doesn't happen just because you say youre going to do something different. actions not words -- you're doing well.

opt



Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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have you pursued medical attention WITH your wife?
I was going to say that we men don't always know how to deal with female issues, but as a married couple, if there is a problem it seems you would be best to consider it an "our" issue rather than an "her" issue... kwim?
I had something similar in my marriage, in retrospect I could have handled it differently.
opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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Optimism,

Thanks for your feedback. Just to clarify she never said I was pushing her away she just said it was "pissing her off" like it wasn't worth my time to show her love every other day but now that she wants a divorce she is valuable to me. My fear is that by me showing her love now could it piss her off so much that it actually pushes her away?

Once in a while I will come up behind her and give her a little massage, I asked her if she was enjoying it and she said yes. So she doesn't "hate" me and is not repulsed by me, I think she is just scared I will hurt her again. Some how I have to get her to open up just a little and allow herself to get closer to me over time. I think this is why she made the comment about separating before divorce, she is afraid of getting close to me again.

Also, I have not approached the hormone issue yet. I believe this is only a symptom or magnifier of our marriage issues not the cause. We will cross that bridge together when our marriage is strong enough to make the journey.

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So she doesn't "hate" me and is not repulsed by me, I think she is just scared I will hurt her again. Some how I have to get her to open up just a little and allow herself to get closer to me over time. I think this is why she made the comment about separating before divorce, she is afraid of getting close to me again.
They usually want to separate so they can pursue the affair. So, I hope you'll forgive us who have been blatantly betrayed if we tend to lean back on those ear-mark signs of waywardness.
I believe you are right about the time factor, but only you can realistically predict how long it will take your wife to regain whatever trust she had in you. Only you know just what transgressions have lead to her feeling this way towards you. Only you can provide the consistent safe actions over time. But I still come back to your original statement that living right is advantageous in itself and should be strived for even without expectation of any other person's reactions. She may come back and she may not, but eliminating lovebusters is critical for your own healthy functioning and satisfaction with life.
It does take time, though, by golly. We've made such habits out of bad behavior which is generally accepted. The good news is that it doesn't take that many years to undue something -- the brain's plasticity (adaptability) is a wonderful thing. Persevere my friend.

I think your "Plan A" is going well although I encourage you to understand you are using it a little unconventionally. I think it is providing you a great opportunity for introspection and concentration on how you can make RCX a BETTER RCX, for you, your kids and your wife, and all the others in your life, but mostly for you.

I hope you are taking time to read the concepts here and maybe even a couple of Dr. H's books. Lovebusters is essential to you I believe, based on the posts you've made, and your areas of concern.

I wouldn't discuss the "Divorce" with her. Let her know you hope she doesn't divorce you but that you understand she has free will in the relationship and that you can't force her to be married to you. When she says 'divorce,' tell her you would rather create the best relationhsip with her that either of you ever imagined...even better than that. And that you believe you have found a program that will help you do that. The program you've been using thusfar has not lead to the BEST relationship (it's the same program that leads to 40% divorce rate in this country -- none.) She probably won't sign on right away -- lead by example and expect nothing.

opt



Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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And keep being "around" 15-20 hours/wk. It's critical.


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
Joined: Mar 2012
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Thanks again for the support, I am still snooping but still no signs of anything suspicious. I met with our marriage councilor yesterday (the one who uses a method very similar to MB principals). After I explained the situation the councilor agreed the likely hood of an affair was low but not out of the question. She seems to think that my wife is very confused about what to do. She agreed that the way she is going about proceeding with the divorce seems very strange but that the path I am taking is the best one for our situation.

I also understand my approach to save the marriage is unconventional but I don't see another way to go about it. A major love busters for my wife is any kind of criticism so even suggesting she help work on the marriage would be like telling her "you broke the marriage now you fix it". I have to nurse us back to health and when the wounds have healed enough then we can begin working together.

During the discussion with the councilor we agreed upon the following:
- Working late = Wife is not a priority
- Working on weekends and not working on honey do list = Wife is not a priority
- Not available to take her calls = Wife is not a priority
etc...

This all happened over a 2 week time period when she was hormonal and also her period was late (so extra strange hormones). My wife's concern that she was not a priority during a hormonal phase magnifies everything and causes all kinds of old wounds to be reopened, her reaction is to run as fast as possible to avoid being hurt. Now that the hormones have subsided my wife is very confused as to why she was so certain she should get a divorce last week but not this week.

The councilor thinks she is in a "testing" phase keeping the divorce on the table but seeing how I react to things. This would explain why she hasn't filed yet and has no plan to file tomorrow. It also explains her hot cold behavior (does something nice followed by something bitchy) to see if I will lash out at her or blame her. She feels that my wife's comment about separating before the divorce is because my wife senses herself getting close to me again and wants to create some distance (some of my wife's other behaviors also support this theory).

We will see how the weekend goes, I'm hoping for the best but planning for the worst.

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