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Originally Posted by SteveD
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And your kids are gone every night?

During the week, they are typically gone two or three nights, yes. When they are home they are in bed by 8 or 8:30 and we don't usually go to bed until 11 or 11:30... On the weekends they are often at friends or families houses all day... So there are some weeks we might have 40+ hours together... Does this straighten this out?

Sorry, not buying it. First off, time late at night after the kids are in bed is not quality UA time. Just being alone in front of the boob tube is no UA time. That is when you are most tired at the end of your day. It is easy to get interrupted when you are home and the phone rings and there is unwashed clothes in the dryer. Quality UA time is spent outside on dates in 2 to 4 hour blocks throughout the week.

I don't believe any more that you are here seeking answers, but rather validation for your existing ideas. You don't have an open mind and are not seeking answers.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SteveD
Our professional marriage counselor has agreed this is the better path since she does not have the ability to self-actualize and overcome this introverted inability to communicate and articulate feelings and emotions...

My wife also leaves a lot of her feelings and desires unexpressed and unarticulated, and I have never heard Dr. Harley refer to her in such a way! It sounds like your professional marriage counselor is clueless about how to fix your marriage, and is blaming his/her cluelessness on your wife being "damaged goods." Wow. I'd fire that counselor.

btw, a primary reason my wife doesn't express her feelings and desires as much as I need in order to get the information I need to meet her needs -- is my own Love Busters, which have created an environment where she is not safe to articulate, express, and communicate.

Bottom line: you are judging your wife. This is the foundation for many other love busters you probably don't know you're engaging in. And your counselor is collaborating with you!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SteveD
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I have seen how you "sell" things in this thread so I understand completely why she ran from that. crazy

Gosh, that's ugly. Would you mind elaborating on this?

I suppose you are drawn to people who are ugly and manipulative, rather than kind and compassionate?

This is called "deflection." Your faults are brought up, and somehow the conversation gets from talking about your faults to talking about someone else's faults, in this case, MelodyLane's poor posting style.

The thing is, your faults are a hindrance to your marriage, and MelodyLane's posting style isn't a hindrance in your marriage, so if you want a better marriage, it's best to recognize when you are deflecting so you can avoid that and focus on what you can do better, i.e., facing and eliminating your faults.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Sorry, not buying it. First off, time late at night after the kids are in bed is not quality UA time. Just being alone in front of the boob tube is no UA time. That is when you are most tired at the end of your day. It is easy to get interrupted when you are home and the phone rings and there is unwashed clothes in the dryer. Quality UA time is spent outside on dates in 2 to 4 hour blocks throughout the week.

Most of our time is not spent in front of the TV, however she does not value or enjoy intimate and heartfelt talking, she would rather talk about more superficial stuff, so when that runs out we like watching certain shows/movies together, but they are very much enjoyed together.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I don't believe any more that you are here seeking answers, but rather validation for your existing ideas. You don't have an open mind and are not seeking answers.

I'm sorry to hear it.

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I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong - but per Dr. Harley's definition and recommendation of UA time (15-20 hours). Time spent watching television / movies does not count.
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Basic Concept #4: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Unless you and your spouse schedule time each week for undivided attention, it will be impossible to meet each other's most important emotional needs. So to help you and your spouse clear space in your schedule for each other, I have written the Policy of Undivided Attention:

Give your spouse your undivided attention
a minimum of fifteen hours each week,
using the time to meet the emotional needs
of affection, conversation, recreational
companionship and sexual fulfillment

This policy will help you avoid one of the most common mistakes in marriage -- neglecting each other.

But it goes beyond helping guarantee that you will meet each other's emotional needs. It also unlocks the door to the use of all the other basic concepts. Without time for undivided attention you will not be able to avoid Love Busters and you will not be able to negotiate effectively. Time for undivided attention is the necessary ingredient for everything that's important in marriage.

And yet, as soon as most couples marry, and especially when children arrive, couples usually replace their time together with activities of lesser importance. You probably did the same thing. You tried to meet each other's needs with time "left over," but sadly, there wasn't much time left over. Your lack of private time together may have become a great cause of unhappiness, and yet you felt incapable of preventing it. You may have also found yourself bottling up your honest expression of feelings because there was just no appropriate time to talk.

Make your time to be alone with each other your highest priority -- that way it will never be replaced by activities of lesser value. Your career, your time with your children, maintenance of your home, and a host of other demands will all compete for your time together. But if you follow the Policy of Undivided Attention, you will not let anything steal from those precious and crucial hours together.

It is essential for you to (a) spend time away from children and friends whenever you give each other your undivided attention (you need privacy); (b) use the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment when you are together (when met, these make the largest Love Bank deposit of all!); and (c) schedule at least fifteen hours together each week (that's how long it usually takes to meet the four needs). When you were dating, you gave each other this kind of attention and you fell in love. When people have affairs, they also give each other this kind of attention to keep their love for each other alive. Why should courtship and affairs be the only times love is created? Why can't it happen in marriage as well? It can, if you set aside time every week to give each other undivided attention.

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Originally Posted by markos
This is called "deflection." Your faults are brought up, and somehow the conversation gets from talking about your faults to talking about someone else's faults, in this case, MelodyLane's poor posting style.

What I was trying to convey was that because of MelodyLane's own experiences, she was seeing me the same as her husband. Looking back, I think I confused her with another poster, and that's my bad. My point is, it seems rather important that the one providing the advice has a correct understanding of the facts and is not hindered by their own biased experiences, would you not agree?

If you want to label this 'deflecting' I can appreciate why you might see it that way, but my motive is to simply try to effectively inform everyone of the actual situation so that you can make judgements based on all the information...

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If you were to read back over Melody Lane's posts all through these forums (60,000 of them!) - I think you would learn that she is one of the most 'expert' posters in terms of following and promoting Dr. Harley's plan for a successful marriage.

I don't know her personally, but from her posts, I believe she has come to this knowledge through her own experience and through consistent study of Dr. Harley's materials.

I don't fault you for 'assuming the worst' - but the person trying to help you is (imo) one of the best.

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Originally Posted by SteveD
[ My point is, it seems rather important that the one providing the advice has a correct understanding of the facts and is not hindered by their own biased experiences, would you not agree?

Steve, after reading your posts, I would suggest that you are the least objective person on this thread. And yes, I knew you were deflecting when you said that but I also understood that you were very defensive.

I hope you think about what we said here and come back with a more open mind tomorrow. You aren't going to get very far until you accept that your own way is not working. We are glad to help, but you have to listen to receive that help.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Youdeservebetter
I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong - but per Dr. Harley's definition and recommendation of UA time (15-20 hours). Time spent watching television / movies does not count.

That's right, it doesn't count because it is not undivided attention. If you are watching the boob tube, your attention is on the TV. He is just adding up time they happen to be together and calling it UA time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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What I was trying to convey was that because of MelodyLane's own experiences, she was seeing me the same as her husband. Looking back, I think I confused her with another poster, and that's my bad. My point is, it seems rather important that the one providing the advice has a correct understanding of the facts and is not hindered by their own biased experiences, would you not agree?

If you want to label this 'deflecting' I can appreciate why you might see it that way, but my motive is to simply try to effectively inform everyone of the actual situation so that you can make judgements based on all the information...

Actually what you are referring to was your first attempt at deflection.

You did not address the one that markos was referring to when he quoted what you more recently said to Mel:
Quote
Gosh, that's ugly. Would you mind elaborating on this?

I suppose you are drawn to people who are ugly and manipulative, rather than kind and compassionate?

As you can see, just like the first time, there was no attempt to "effectively inform everyone of the actual situation so that you (we) can make judgements based on all the information."

Don't judge yourself for deflecting, Steve. Just notice that you've done it. That alone will help you to hear what is being said to you better the next time.
















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I am an ENFP, and my wife is an ISFJ.
Hi, Steve. I'm late reading your thread, so I apologize if I'm redundant. Welcome to Marriage Builders. Just so you know - these assignations are immaterial to us. They don't mean anything when it comes to recovering from an affair. So let's drop that and move on:
Quote
What do I do???
Ask your wife to come here.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I appreciate all the responses. I have changed my screen name in an attempt to avoid any repercussions from this thread. The last thing I need is my wife stumbling across any of this. If you guys don't mind, I would like to halt this thread from this point forward. I really do appreciate everyone's time and energy, and I will thoughtfully consider each and every post.

Thank you.

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Why would it be a problem if your wife found this thread?

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Actually what you need in marriage is to deal with the problems, respectfully and openly. So I would tell her everything you told us here.

As far as halting the thread, that's easy: just quit posting. But it probably won't help any of your issues. And "thoughtfully considering" posts but not taking the advice won't help anything, either.

If you do nothing, nothing will change.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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If you don't want to post here, you can get Dr. Harley's advice for free every day on his radio show.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The best thing that could happen to your marriage (and to you)is if your wife found this thread. Better to get everything out in the open, Steve. All of it.

The truth will set you free.


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Originally Posted by Marshmallow
The best thing that could happen to your marriage (and to you)is if your wife found this thread. Better to get everything out in the open, Steve. All of it.

The truth will set you free.


I agree with all of this, she does not. She has made it clear for years she does not want me to share what i feel or think, when it comes to emotional or intimate issues. Well, let me rephrase, she SAYS she wants me to, but she has repeatedly used my feelings or thoughts as weapons for 14 years, so sharing openly may be a step in the process, but there would have to be a number of steps prior to that to get her to a place where she could recieve it. There is nothing we have discussed in this thread that she does not know well...

The reason for my fear of her finding it, is in the fact that I discussed it with anyone. She does not share anything with anyone. She has no close friends or family, and she does not articulate feelings or thoughts with me either. Well, she does, but they are not particularly deep thoughts or feelings... Certainly nothing intimate...

This was what I was seeking advice for all along. How do you pursuede someone to communicate in a way they have never done before and has no idea how to?

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Originally Posted by markos
Actually what you need in marriage is to deal with the problems, respectfully and openly.

I could not agree more. My wife has no capacity to do this. At least she has never demonstrated it.

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You make it sound like you proposed to a robot. Surely, she was somewhat open before? Or are you re-writing history? Your posts are very disrespectful of her.

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So basically you don't want to be open with her because her reaction is rough on you? Um, be open anyway. And then be open that you don't like her reaction. You should also inform her that you find her shallow and incompetent to hold a serious conversation. Bring a hardhat.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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