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If someone is constitutionally unchangeable, then accept that and either stay or go. That is precisely why I came to this forum, I had hoped that was not the case, and I was looking for advice on how to handle her. I was hopeful and optimistic enough to believe she was NOT constitutionally unchangeable, however my points and arguments throughout this forum have been only to try and communicate the facts of the situation...
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Oregon - Have you considered talking to Steve Harley about your situation? I don't have any experience with him, but others have said that he can be very persuasive and if you spoke to him first and then had him speak to your wife (privately) based on what others have said, it is very possible that he could convince your wife to put some effort into this.
I can tell that you are frustrated at times with the pushback you are getting from the community here. You are making yourself out to be a perfect husband and no one is perfect. (no, "I just love her too much" as your only flaw isn't honestly a flaw)
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I do believe you have a sincere desire to improve your marriage. However, as SugarCane pointed out - the picture doesn't quite add up. I operate on a very simple principle of life: if it doesn't make sense, it's not true. So far, that principle seems to have held true for every MB situation I've seen on this board.
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If someone is constitutionally unchangeable, then accept that and either stay or go. That is precisely why I came to this forum, I had hoped that was not the case, and I was looking for advice on how to handle her. I was hopeful and optimistic enough to believe she was NOT constitutionally unchangeable, however my points and arguments throughout this forum have been only to try and communicate the facts of the situation... But how could you "hope that was not the case"? You have spent DAYS telling us that this WAS the case, no matter what we suggested. You wrote it here in your first post: We went to counseling and our conselor took me aside and explained to me that because of my wife's personality type, she is never going to be able to openly express with words the kind of affirmation and affection I desire. She indicated that it was a 'pandora's box' to try and MAKE her do it, and it could actually make things worse. She actually recommended NOT continuing counseling because of the kinds of self-actualization my wife would have to do would be so painful the marriage might not survive.
What do I do??? And in almost every post after that you made it clear that she will not change. Her counsellor has told you this and she has told you this. When we suggested that you sell MB to her - because we know that this using programme changes behaviour in marriage - you told us that attempting to sell it WOULD NOT WORK because she will not change. You knew that for a cast-iron fact. So how could you have been hoping "that was not the case" and there could be some advice that would change her into someone that would want to do the programme?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I honestly did not consider that possibility. I saw it through my own point of view. If my wife came to me saying she was thinking about another man, my desire would be to find out what he was doing that I was not, and to begin doing it. My attitude to her would be, "you won't have to worry about him anymore, because I will be more man than he could dream of."
Can you see that? I hoped she would take that stance. That is why it was so devastating when she did not. I truly expected that response... This entire response screams DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENT. You made disrespectful judgments of her simply based on YOUR mindset. I suspect this is not the only disrespectful judgment you've made over the years and, perhaps, YOUR assumptions about how she should think, react, respond, feel have led her to a place where she either no longer feels safe enough or cares enough to share her intimate self. In other words, she has completely withdrawn from you.
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Out of curiosity ( i have not read the entire thread ) ... have you printed out the emotional needs questionairs, Love busters questionsirs and personal history questionairs x2? filled them out and exchanged them and reviewed them together?
Maybe that would be a good starting point? Especially if you both understand all the aspects of MB since you both read the material out loud together?
MNG
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You said it here: what do you do if your spouse does not have the capacity to provide you with the emotional stuff you need?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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And here: This is not the case. She is not refusing but rather has no capacity to do what I desire. She has no capacity to think of complimentary words and articulate them to me verbally. It's not a refusal, but seems to rather be a handicap.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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And here: In my selfless desire to be what she needs regardless of what I need, I have tried to maintain my silence so that she can go on and be happy and fulfilled. Our professional marriage counselor has agreed this is the better path since she does not have the ability to self-actualize and overcome this introverted inability to communicate and articulate feelings and emotions...
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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And here: If the only deposits that meet my EN are quarters, and all she has is dimes, how does she have the capacity to meet my EN?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Here: However she has no desire to go through the emotional turmoil it would require for her to come face to face with the realities of who she is and what she would be required to do.
So she has no desire to learn to meet my needs in an effective, productive way. Now what?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Here: You still aren't listening. "she has no desire to go through the emotional turmoil it would require for her to come face to face with the realities of who she is and what she would be required to do" <- This is coming from her, not me. SHE says this... This is not my perception, this is her reality.
We have actually gone through all of the EN articles together on this site, in addition we have gone through many different articles that we felt like related to us. We've done this together, out loud. When we talk about the EN stuff, she is quick to admit the ares she does not have the ability to meet me in. So again, this is not some perception...
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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It's endless. You have spent your entire time here saying either that she cannot meet your needs, and her counsellor has endorsed this fact, or that she will not, and SHE has endorsed this fact.
You don't accept that either there is resentment and unfinished business about the affair, or you are not meeting her needs and providing "just compensation". According to your description of her words, she sees you as doing an unbeatable job and blame HERSELF for the affair - not you.
So that leaves your picture of the constitutionally unchangeable wife. What else are people to suggest, other than that you put up with it or leave? Leaving is what Dr Harley suggests.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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OregonBoy, what are your wife's complaints about your marriage?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I find it interesting that the majority (not all) of what Sugarcane highlighted are disrespectful judgments made by you rather than how/what your wife may or may not be.
Also, in line with what Marco asked you, have you ever asked your wife what her complaints are about you/the marriage and TRULY listened without defending yourself, without making excuses. Just listened?????
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OregonBoy,
I see 2 possibilities here based on your posts:
1. You are a perfect husband and your wife (admittedly) is incapable of loving you the way you want to be loved. If this is the case then you can put up with it and stay, or you can leave.
2. You are not a perfect husband and your wife is in fact capable of loving you in the way you need. If this is the case, focus on your side of the street by being open to new perspectives and suggestions. Listen to the good people here who truly, truly know what they're talking about and grow the love and marriage you want.
aBetterMe
Last edited by aBetterMe; 04/04/12 05:10 PM.
aBetterMe
Me 33
DH 35
Together 14 years, married 12
Two "furry children" (one cat & one dog)
MB has changed me and changed my life. I am becoming a better person for it, and building a better marriage. MB principles can truly help you create the love and the life you want.
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I was going to suggest calling Steve Harley also. See what he thinks and advises. You do want to try everything before you give up.
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OregonBoy, what are your wife's complaints about your marriage? Her complaint, on the rare occasion she makes one, is that I desire intimate emotional conversation and words of affirmation. She has never made a complaint about how I love, take care of, or provide for her.
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Also, in line with what Marco asked you, have you ever asked your wife what her complaints are about you/the marriage and TRULY listened without defending yourself, without making excuses. Just listened????? Asking? Probably into the thousands of times. Listening with an open heart and mind? Every time. The problem is, me asking creates conflict, so there is not rational answering. 90% of the time the answer is, "nothing, you are wonderful." The other 10% of the time it is that I am high maintenance because of my need for emotional and intimate affirmation and support.
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And again, just to reiterate, I have never claimed to be the perfect husband. I recognize where I have contributed to our problems over the years, and how my desire for intimacy can overshadow my better judgement and cause me to openly share my feelings with her, to our great detriment.
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