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I really don't want to do anything with the locks. I actually thought about the cams last night and will look into that.

I really don't think she will come over any more without me knowing . I think she understands that it could have legal repercussions.

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Mel,

I didn't realize that by not laying out those conditions it was allowing her to still be in control.

Now, since pretty much every time we actually talk it gets heated (because she starts accusing and bad-mouthing me), is it better to tell her this on the phone or email or what?

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And Mel, I think you are exactly right (as usual) that she is in great turmoil right now. I think even as a rookie I can see it in her. One minute she's talking like she wants to repair and the next she's blaming me for "what I did to her". The next minute she's talking about how good of a dad I am and the next she's saying that I never did anything for the kids and now that she has left "I figured I should step up and be a good parent".

One sentence contradicts the next with her right now.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Mel,

I didn't realize that by not laying out those conditions it was allowing her to still be in control.

Now, since pretty much every time we actually talk it gets heated (because she starts accusing and bad-mouthing me), is it better to tell her this on the phone or email or what?

I think an email might be a good idea. That way she will have it in writing. When you talk to her, just reiterate your conditions. But you HAVE to tell her this and disabuse her of the notion that you will take her back under any conditions.

Say something like this:

Dear WW, I have been doing alot of thinking about this divorce and wanted to let you know where I stand. First off, you should know I am not willing to stay in a loveless marriage. I would be willing to stay in a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage. Because of that, I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness if you do certain things. This is what it will take to keep me interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life - send him a no contact letter that is approved by me

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about your affair

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

I know our marriage was not perfect but I think we could turn it into a great marriage with this plan at Marriage Builders. I would be willing to try under those conditions. I am not going to drop the divorce right now, but if I see our marriage making some changes, I can consider doing so.

All my love, lookingforhelp


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
And Mel, I think you are exactly right (as usual) that she is in great turmoil right now. I think even as a rookie I can see it in her. One minute she's talking like she wants to repair and the next she's blaming me for "what I did to her". The next minute she's talking about how good of a dad I am and the next she's saying that I never did anything for the kids and now that she has left "I figured I should step up and be a good parent".

One sentence contradicts the next with her right now.

That is why you need to make a concerted effort right now to lead your marriage out of the ditch. You need to present a PLAN. With this you are offering her an olive branch that she sorely needs.

She sees no hope with a future with you, so that is what you need to present in the above email.

Her first response will be an AGHAST "FU!!!" because she is very used to running the show here. But you will have planted the seed. Be sweet...but be FIRM. And show her your PLAN.

Be a broken record: "I think we can have a great marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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When she gets the email I expect her to call you to cuss you out. Don't take her call for at least an hour, ok?

Call her an hour later and say "sorry I could not get to you, dear, what's up?"

Then she will start cussing you out. Tell her "I am sure sorry you feel that way. Thanks for letting me know. I have to run! Love you, dear."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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And be very choosy. If she comes back at any point with a counter proposal, just tell her "I am sorry, but that won't work for me. I know what it will take and it will take nothing less than the conditions on my list."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Now, since pretty much every time we actually talk it gets heated (because she starts accusing and bad-mouthing me),

Yeah, so?

Now's the time you're going to need an SOB transfusion, LFH. You appear to be terrified of 1)her anger; 2)her options; 3) her disapproval; 4) the reality of your situation, which is based on the fact that for how-many years, you were acting on the basis of the first three!

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So #4 on the list is saying that I am demanding that she can never have any more male friends?

NG,
I think I may be terrified in the sense that I'm afraid that by making her mad or upsetting her I will lose her completely. I have not lost her yet but am afraid that if I keep pushing, I will.

I do see and understand that she has already left, but she has not signed any papers to actually divorce. I guess the bottom line is yes, I am terrified of losing her and anything that causes friction makes me that much more terrified.

I have never been a demanding person. It's just not my personality. I guess that's why I am having such a hard time with some of the things y'all tell me to do. I know they're right but it's very uncomfortable. Y'all can label me a pushover or whatever...I'll take it. I'm going to do this as y'all tell me to, but know that it is one of the most difficult things I have had to do toward her.

She will probably blow up at me and I just hope and pray that she truly is the textbook WW and responds the way that we expect. I stand the potential to completely lose her if this doesn't work. I thought I knew her at one time and the person I knew would respond to these "demands and manipulation techniques" as I know she will see them, with anger and resentment.

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Do Waywards not view this as basically being treated as a child by having someone be with them with their every move?

I'm not as much questioning the plan because who am I to question anyone here, right? I am trying to get a few answers to be able to handle the way she will react. I know she will see this as manipulative and being treated as a child by not being able to do anything alone.

Do these loosen up after recovery or after things have been rebuilding or are these conditions for life?

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Sorry to bombard with posts.

Nothing in this declaration addresses the neglect she feels is the main issue. Why?

Please forgive all my nonsense questions. Just trying to have all the info I need in case she brings up those points.

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I used to think like you, but after 2 As, and years of lies and deceits, I would not settle for any less.

How much it will take for you to hit bottom?


BS (me) 46
STBX WH 53
Married 2000
DS, 11; DS, 10
1st A: LT D-Day - 02/14/06
2nd A: D-Day - 12/21/11
Plan B since 1/17/12
Divorcing
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estrela,

I see your point. I've just never been the type of person that MB makes you be to recover a broken marriage. I guess that's why I am where I am.

I hear all the advice and I will do this. I just have to ready myself for the potential outcome...divorce. Yes, the other potential outcome is a wonderful marriage. I guess it's just scary because this speech could usher in the final decision and THAT does scare me.

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Lf, what you don't understand is that you have lost her. And if you don't start taking some action here, it will be hopeless. The goal is to get her back.

And you are not "demanding" anything. You are telling her your conditions to keep you in the marriage. Having opposite sex freindships is how affairs start. DO you want to go through this again? She has already proven she has pisspoor boundaries around men. You don't need more evidence to know that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
estrela,

I see your point. I've just never been the type of person that MB makes you be to recover a broken marriage. I guess that's why I am where I am.

I hear all the advice and I will do this. I just have to ready myself for the potential outcome...divorce. Yes, the other potential outcome is a wonderful marriage. I guess it's just scary because this speech could usher in the final decision and THAT does scare me.

You are headed for divorce NOW. You have no chance of recovery and have nothing to lose. You can't afford to be complacent and sit around and hope your marriage will recover by fairy magic. You have to lead your marriage back from the brink.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Sorry to bombard with posts.

Nothing in this declaration addresses the neglect she feels is the main issue. Why?

Please forgive all my nonsense questions. Just trying to have all the info I need in case she brings up those points.

Her neglect of you will be addressed in the MB program. I would let her know that you expect her to meet your needs in a way she has failed to do in the past. But you are giving her that opportunity.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I know...I know. I'm gonna do this because I want to try to lead my marriage back if I can. I know y'all are right.

I hope and pray that it works. I am a little doubtful because I know how she is right now and I think she is gonna tell me to kiss her ***. That she will not be told what she can and can't do.

But, like you said...if she doesn't want to commit to the marriage then there is no marriage. No marriage is just hard for me to handle.

I'm gonna start working on my email to her tonight.

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Mel, I think you misunderstood me about the neglect issue. SHE is making it out that the neglect that I placed on her over the past couple years is the main issue. That's all she talks about when she starts talking about what our problems are.

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Once I send her the email, should I give her the book SAA to read through? I guess if she decides to want to work on it.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Mel, I think you misunderstood me about the neglect issue. SHE is making it out that the neglect that I placed on her over the past couple years is the main issue. That's all she talks about when she starts talking about what our problems are.

Let her know you will forgive her for her neglect and that you won't neglect her in the future. The reason she talks about the neglect is because she wants to blame you for gr affair.

I fully expect her to tell you to buzz off when you first tell her. She won't believe you are serious at first. But you have nothing to lose because taking her back on any less conditions will lead to divorce.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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