Well at this point I may have convinced my wife to change marriage counselors. She's been going to IC for weeks. To me its just seems to be a validation gripe session. She wants to keep going because it helps her. But she wants to do couple counseling. Im weary of this counselor. Is there a way to find MB centric counselors. I read the article already. Wondering if there is a database by city locator thing at all?

Can you afford the MB counseling?

Have you seen this?
How to Find a Good Marriage Counselor

You deserve respect for exhausting all avenues to save your marriage, but you have not progressed a bit since May. She f-ed up, but you are walking on eggshells.

If she has read the materials here, she would not need a counselor of any type. This is a way to pacify you without giving you anything in return. What is she looking to accomplish at a marriage counselor? There's no upside to it for you. A reason for her cheating? We know that already. It will be a chance for her to transfer some blame to you. You have taken too much sh-- for her infidelity already. The affair is in the past.

MB is about moving forward and what she'll do to make you whole and what you'll do make her whole. You have needs that she has no desire to satisfy. A person interested in saving their marriage would have met you somewhere in the middle of what you are asking for and what your wife is giving you. (Never mind enthousisatically meeting your every sexual whim.) Your SF (as in FRUSTRATION) is evident in nearly every post.

We are the same. We asked for the same things for our recovery. Your wife is failing terribly at it.

You have a dynamic in that home that is in no way worth the heartache she caused.

Personally, I'd be gone. Life is way too short. Sorry.

PS. It might just take that to make her understand.

Okay, I'm here again. It's been awhile. But I'm ready to give this another whirlwind. A LOT, I mean A LOT has happened in the past 8 months.

The Good:
1) I passed my licensure exam so I am now officially a doctor. I got my license last month and just started working. This is a huge burden lifted from our family's shoulders. I am now able to produce a comfortable salary for our family, work towards getting us out of the debt we accumulated this past year as I had to work a $15 an hour job while supporting a family of 5 by myself. So it's a relief all away around. My wife has stated multiple times how proud of me she is of this facet. I'd never tell this to her face, but I failed those exams for a few reasons, the primary one being going through the discovery of her affair and her imminent threats of divorce. THe other being the fact that she went into pre-term labor with our twins a week before I took the exam. In short, whenever there a major examination for me it seemed to be a MAJOR life event timed right there with it. But anyways, I finally passed it after having had to wait a year to re-take it. We're all extremely excited. I feel like I can finally work at providing the Financial Support need that my wife(and children) have.
2) We moved to another state. Glory Halleujuah. We're just two short steps away from basically having severed off our past location. We've had our home on the market for 4-5 weeks now. And hopefully we'll get an offer soon so we can cut ties with that place. And I'm about to change our phone numbers to our new state's numbers next week when we switch cell phone carriers. I'm excited to be at my new job, in a new state, away from that utter waste of a human life. My daughter started kindergarten and the schools here are absolutely phenomenal.
3) My wife and I have made a lot of progress overall. We're still not where I want us to be or think where we should be, but when I step back and think about where we are today as a couple, as a family, I see how far we've come and it's a beautiful thing, though things still aren't perfect, far from it, which I'll get into later.
4) After I passed my test I had a good 6 weeks off where I was home every day and able to meet most of my wife's needs most of the time.

The Bad:
My job has recently required me to be out of town M-F each week for the past two weeks and the next two weeks. It's a temporary thing, but it's been hard for us all. We text and call frequently to stay in touch.

Our sex life is still in the toilet. It's an extremely important aspect of marriage to me. My wife and I have hashed it out. We've had more sex in the past 6 months than we did the previous year and half, but the frequency and fulfillment leaves a lot left to be desired for me(Maybe 10 times in the past 6 months). My wife believes that I have sexually abused her in the beginning years of our marriage, and that being sexually active with me is extremely raw and painful for her. She's stated to me that she hates kissing me, she has a hard time touching me and when we're sexual it's emotionally painful for her. She states that she knows she capable of being sexually aroused, but doesn't believe she's capable of it with me. She's mentally thrown in the towel there. We started the marriage builders program together last year but when she read a part that she felt Violated her choice she quit. She was appalled that Dr. Harley suggests, "fake it til you make it" regarding sex. I keep trying to explain to her that's not what he says, but she won't have anything to do with it. She's completely put off by it. I asked her the other night if our sexual issues were resolved what would be her major hangup in our marriage? She said that it's pretty much the sexual issues. I'm lost as to how to proceed because I don't know how to get her to buy into the MB program. She's totally shut off to it. She feels that if she reads her scriptures, and is more obedient to God's will that it will solve all the problems in our marriage(I think that's a necessary start and vital individually but not comprehensive). I think God expects us to do for ourselves what we're capable of doing and he fills in the gaps where needed according to His Will.

The Ugly:
No-contact was broken twice in the past 6 weeks. The day before we moved, my wife went to a chiropractic appt. and lo and behold [censored] just 'happened' to be there too. She got adjusted, and they had a two hour conversation there. She told me about it later that day and why she was gone for so long. I was livid but I was literally in the middle of packing up our truck, cleaning our house and getting my family the hell away from that [censored]. I was FURIOUS, but literally had no time to deal with the situation. The last no-contact breach happened on my wife's birthday. He sent her a FB greeting. The following week I went out of town for my training and they talked for several hours into the middle of the night 'just catching up' on each other's lives, kids, etc. That weekend I had an inkling to check the phone logs just randomly and that's when I discovered the phone calls. The [censored] borrowed a friends phone to call our new home number that he'd received after using his friends fb account to acquire the number after messaging my wife. I immediately called douchebags wife and told her what was up. She was appreciative of the info and stated that she felt like the past month or so had been really rough(ever since their 'chance' encounter at the chiropractor which she had no idea about. Since then she's changed her email and fb passwords (after we gave each other all our passwords last year) and won't give them up because she doesn't want me 'spying' on her and sorting through everything in a hotel room. She says the problem is WITHIN her, and that she needed fixing to overcome her compulsion to contact him. I told her I want her to close her FB account. She won't do it. I said at least make a JOINT account WITH me then so that way their is really no way to breach no contact via FB without me knowing. She said she'd think about it and that's where we're at.

Here's the thing. Our marriage is as good as it's been for the past 2 years. These are major setbacks. I want to roll with the program but she's entirely against it. She wants to work it out on her terms and in her way. Shes been upset with me because I 'quit' counseling after a year of going. I thought it was stupid and not very helpful. I felt like the counselor had a major tilt towards 'women's rights' and said a lot of destructive advice like if only I had related better to my wife and truly 'listened' to her then we would be emotionally connected, like my wife having an affair was my fault. I felt like I was the one that cheated on my wife the bulk of the time. She stated that there are no 'shoulds' in marriage which I completely BALKED at and she stated I was flat wrong when I said love is more than just a feeling, it's a decision, it's a choice. Choices lead feelings. She told me essentially that it's the opposite. So after month of going I was done with all the psychobabble. My wife said she felt it was helping and that especially in her individual sessions they were working on how she can right now and going forward improve our sexual relationship and overcome her sexual aversion that she has with me. Well, the counselor situation is moot now that we moved and she feels we need to enter counseling somewhere else. She still feels disconnected with me emotionally(breaking no-contact does that) and that if things don't improve she's tempted to divorce me over it. But she's has stayed and is willing to stay because of our three kids. She STILL believes I have a problem(she calls it a sex addiction - basically because I think a healthy sex-life involves sexual encounters 2-3 times a week minimum in more ways than just laying there like a bump on a bed) and that my top two needs of sexual fulfillment and attractiveness are superficial and not that important. She says she can't possibly see the benefits of a program that places sex and beauty as the most important aspects of marriage.

Here's my decision though, I will not leave because I will not allow myself to become a part-time father to my children on my watch. My kids need me, I need them. They need me to love their mother, to show them what a loving marriage looks like. I can only focus on me and my efforts and I am. So at this point I'm just dumbfounded on where to go, how to begin yet again. All the generic read this, or talk to the coaching or do the programs won't work. She sees MB and she's through. I can't even get her to read any other marriage books. She feels that she's 'TRYING' hard on our marriage. I've read dozens of marriage books over the past year and half. I've met her emotional needs the majority of the time like a super hero. I've tried to work the program as best I can incognito and it's helped some, but it's not getting the results I feel it should because I know it takes two to tango eventually.

I'm at the fork in the road that ultimately places me at odds with having a fulfilling marriage in the near future and being a father to my children. I'm doing my part as a husband as best I know how and that I know is the ultimate test of being a great father. We're not 'miserable'. We get along pretty well most of the time. But the 'spark' she needs is missing and she doesn't know how to get it back....ahem...but if I suggest the program that is most likely to bring it back, she won's. She's usually pretty good at meeting most of my other needs but the two that she refuses to meet are sexual fulfillment and marita/(familial) security. She stated divorce will always be an option for her in our marriage.

I get that the formula to recover our marriage is: 1) Firm and steadfast no contact + 2) Creating a thriving marital environment = Reconciliation.

There is only so much I can do. I don't know what else to do, say or how to motivate her. Whenever a suggestion comes from me on how to proceed it's met with resistance. I don't even know what I am asking for here. I don't know how to reach my wife in a meaningful way that will put us on a path that actually leads to a mutually fulfilling marriage. She thinks POJA is a pipe dream and not founded in reality. So I just know even know where to begin. It's frustating, but it's a sacrifice I WILL make for my children and realistically for my wife as well. I don't believe in Divorce except for the most rare of circumstances. It's legal fiction that was invented by men in their vain pride, sin and hard-heartedness.

I'm choosing to make the most of the situation and to buy yet more time because ultimately my wife does want the same thing as me, she's just feeling hopeless on achieving it with me.

So, Doc...

How often would you recommend that one of your patients take a medication that they have a severe allergy to?

Your WW had repeated NC breaks last year too.

I (and others) tried to post to you several times about how SERIOUS the lack of EPs in this situation are. You just brushed us off telling us the A was over.

You have been in a false recovery all of this time, and as long as your WW refuses to implement appropriate EPs, this A will continue.

Do you realize that?

She won't give you the passwords because the affair is back ON.

You understand this, right?

Traveling job was discussed earlier. In a healthy marriage this would be dangerous. In a M with a still foggy wayward = disaster.

You have never accomplished Step #1 of this program, HH.

NC for life and implementation of EPs (including no overnights apart) to make resumption of A (or start of another affair) almost impossible.

Your WW not wanting to have SF and not wanting POJA or work on MB is very normal for a wayward who has on again off again contact with OM.

Yup you're right. I've discussed multiple EP's. Changing phone numbers. We just moved. online passwords. etc etc etc.

She knows what I expect. She knows I'm watching. She's willing to 'work' on our marriage on her terms and what she views as normal, since my request are 'demanding'. I can't "make her give up facebook or giver up her passwords".

She simply will only look to our church and trusted family and friends for help and her counselor that told her more what she wanted to hear rather than what she needed to hear.

False recovery is a way of life for you. That is not anything close to Marriage Builders. Your wife will accept anything other than a marriage with you.

What is your plan?

You have a fogged out enabled wayward who refuses to end the affair and refuses to be transparent = no progress in R as you have seen.

How long will you live like this?

Dude, dual no contact breeches AND your new ability to support those kids in a much better level means its time to give her what she wants and file for divorce first based on infidelity.

Factor in the complete disregard your security, happiness, and emotional wellbeing, I'd be gonzo. You tried.

**edit**

PS. You going away for those trips is not a good idea. She's not to be trusted.

Evident that your WW still sees the OM as #1 and you as her beta provider.

She will not do marriage builders because she has not and will not end her affair.

You should call the Harleys. They can advise you on how to get WW on board with MB. Also this marriage may not be recoverable.

Your WW may not come out of her fog until you file for divorce.

Did you expose this affair?

If yes, who did you expose to?

To an extent I feel this is true and that bothers me, hurts me and ultimate is a big reason our marriage isn't recovering.

True, but it's not just that. She so close-minded to the idea of 'fake it to you make'(thought that's not exactly what Dr. Harley is saying) though most books/counselors on marriage relate a similar idea of DO the actions of love, and your feelings of love with return.

Noted, but I am 100% certain my marriage is recoverable. Based on the differences i see and feel from last year to this year, our three beautiful children and my faith in God and my wife. i know this isn't over.

That will never happen.

Oh yeah, parents, my sister, a few close friends, OMW and kids know, clergy of our church know, OMW's got the whole rumor mill going and exposed it to hundreds of people within our previous church community.

See above