Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 46 of 59 1 2 44 45 46 47 48 58 59
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
I liked the idea of the simple quotes or poems via email being something to try to do each day.

My question is what type of content should I stay away from? Should I look for something that is simple but shows I love her, care about her, know relationships are hard, etc., or should I stick with more generic content? I know to stay away from desperation or grovelling. But should I convey the message that love remains and things like that?

Just looking for opinions.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,153
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,153
Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I'm getting MUCH better with the emotional roller coaster but it hasn't subsided completely, which I know that may take quite a while if ever.

I get these "waves" of total despair, hurt and heartache that just bring me to rock bottom for a spell. Something triggers the thoughts of the void that is now in my life and I just go downhill to the point of tears within probably an hour of onset.

Are there any combative tactics that anyone can share that might help with this. I felt pretty good and more in control than I have in a while this morning. But about an hour before lunch I started "feeling" it coming on. I went to lunch and had to go to the park and eat because I was so upset I started crying again.

I know nothing is going to cure this but time and I am getting much better with these "attacks", but how did any of you deal with this besides medication (which I am contemplating)?


First, what you are feeling is indeed completely normal based on what you are going through. A lot of us can attest to that! Heard of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Syndrome? Just like that.

As Mel suggested, O3�s and exercise are very helpful. I also took Valerian Root/Passion Flower stacked supplements from the health food store to help with anxiety. They really to help. Plus, they really aided me sleep better as I was on 1-2hrs of sleep per night for a LONG time. I tried AD�s but made me loopy. Have you tried any of these?


I can so sympathize with your waves of despair. Been there. Still do sometimes but not as often or as intense. What I have found most helpful it to TRY my best to control/manipulate my thoughts.

It has been documented that when you think of an event in life (traumatic or not), within 2 minutes, all those feelings of the triggered thought rush into your body. For me at least, I have learned to re-direct my thoughts immediately as soon as they start to come forward and try to �short-circuit� my thoughts.


I find that if I am able to immediately re-direct my thoughts (cut if off before that 2 minutes) as soon as they hit to something positive (basketball game, my kids, happy memory, focus on work, whatever), I am able to prevent those negative emotions to come to the surface. Or, at least minimize them. Or, say STOP STOP STOP over and over again.

I will admit, It takes a lot of practice as there are triggers everywhere but it really does work. This is the technique that has helped me the most. My thoughts seem to take on a life of their own once the really get going and it is like trying to stop a freight train out of control if I don�t do this.

Again, trying to short-circuit those thoughts. With some practice, it really becomes easier and does help.

Last edited by 20YearHistory; 06/01/12 01:00 PM.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
I happen to be more dependent on that companionship than the average guy. I know this may be viewed as a weakness, but I am what I am. I have always been the type of person that wants to share life with someone.

Done with the pity-party? Good! No more of that!

You ARE what you HAVE BEEN! You need not BE what you HAVE BEEN!

You were dependent on another person, blissfully assured that that person would never hurt you, that you needn't work to protect your coupleness, and that no outsider would deign to intrude on your little paradise.

Didn't work out too well, did it?

Don't feel too bad about your....naivete. All of us WSs here were similarly blind to the nasty and subversive forces (internal and external) that work, every day, to ruin our lives.

You are enrolled here in a Master's class for understanding what can happen, what the damage can be, how to prevent it, and how to recover from it. Take notes, do the homework, and work toward the MMB degree.

If WW gets her head out of her anal sphincter, she might enjoy your development. It may instead be that the wife that eventually benefits from your course of study will be your next one. She will be one lucky lady.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
NG,

I hear what you're telling me and I agree with you. I think I'll always like having companionship better than being alone.

Maybe the fact that I didn't choose this companionship loss and the fact that this is not only taking my companionship that my wife (real wife) provided but more importantly taking the companionship of my kids from me is making it worse.

I do hear you that I still AM partly what I HAVE BEEN, but I'm working on NOT BEING what I HAVE BEEN. I have learned a lot of things about myself up until this point that I didn't realize. I knew that I was nowhere near perfect but I didn't realize that there were so many areas that could be "tweaked" and made better.

I am "tweaking" a little each day but some of the areas that need "tweaking" appear to have gotten stuck over the years. Slowly but surely...

My grades in the Master's class haven't measured up very well so far. I'm working on that too. I think I've finally realized or accepted what everyone has been telling me...that I have nothing to actually lose at this point because it's already lost. That's very hard for me to admit much less accept, because it makes me feel like I'm admitting defeat.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
I have absolutely contributed to creating a monster.

I called a buddy of mine when I got home and we were on the phone for a while. During the time we're talking, WW calls. Well, I didn't stop my conversation and answer it. She can wait until I can call her back.

I get off the phone with my buddy, listen to her voicemail (which she never leaves) and she's asking about something related to the kids. I call her back and basically she's just kind of short and says that she was needing the answer to her question when she called. Now the answer was too late because she had found what she was asking me for. Now that is paraphrased but you get the meaning.

I got the feeling that she was upset because I didn't drop what I was doing and answer her call. I just asked her what I could to for her and when she told me that she had already found what she was looking for she didn't seem to have anything to say. I told her I was happy she found it and told her to have a good night.

She actually does think/expect that I will just drop what I'm doing at any time and do what she needs. I guess that's my fault. for contributing to that. Well, I'm done with doing that. The earth doesn't revolve around her and neither do I anymore. Maybe she'll wake up soon and see that.

She'll get over it.

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,156
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,156
You aren't helping yourself at all doing things like this. You're either in Plan A or not. It's pretty simple. I know you're all over the map emotionally, but right now you need to be there when she needs you. If you have a legitimate excuse for not taking her call, then so be it. Talking to a buddy and not taking her call to show her whatever it was you were trying to show her isn't going to cut it. If you are serious about this, you need to be there and doing for her at every opportunity with no expectations of reciprocity. Absolutely none.

You're not teaching her anything right now acting this way. All you're doing is justifying her actions for doing what she is. She needs you, evidenced by her call, and you ignored her over a phone call with a friend. She's giving you chances to make deposits into her LB$ and you throw that chance away to make a point? By her reaction, I think you made your point.

If you're going to Plan A, then do it right. Otherwise, cut your losses and go dark.

But don't think you're ready to quit yet.



Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
Tiger,

Your post is pretty frustrating to me. I don't think I'm supposed to hang up on another call to answer when she calls. I'm not going to do that. I WILL answer her call when I'm not in the middle of something.

I was not trying to show her or teach her anything. I won't hang up with a friend or anyone else for that matter to answer a call from the President.

She didn't need me at all. She was looking for something that was right in front of her. All she had to do was LOOK, yet instead of LOOK she decided to call and get ME to jump and help turn her head and point it in the right direction. I KNOW what she was doing because she's been doing it for months and I've been allowing her.

As far as Plan A goes, I am guilty of screwing it up on more than 27 occasions, but I have been dedicating all my willpower recently to NOT screwing it up anymore. I am having some trouble knowing where the "line" is between what is Plan A and what is Plan Doormat. Hanging up the phone when I'm talking to someone else just to answer her calls is NOT Plan A from what I understand.

If I sound a little ticked...I am. I'm tired of catering to her and her every whim and when you tell me that I'm basically being an idiot for NOT catering to her then I am offended.

If I'm wrong then I'll take my beating as I have multiple times before. And, if Plan A means I have to stop what I'm in the middle of to cater to her then maybe I don't want to do it anymore.

What I DO want to do is try to win her back, but I don't believe it entails that. Someone correct me if I'm in the wrong here, please.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I got the feeling that she was upset because I didn't drop what I was doing and answer her call. I just asked her what I could to for her and when she told me that she had already found what she was looking for she didn't seem to have anything to say. I told her I was happy she found it and told her to have a good night.

She actually does think/expect that I will just drop what I'm doing at any time and do what she needs. I guess that's my fault. for contributing to that. Well, I'm done with doing that. The earth doesn't revolve around her and neither do I anymore. Maybe she'll wake up soon and see that.

This is perfect. You handled this perfectly and are catching on!

Wes, there is a difference between meeting her needs and being her b*tch. She is accustomed to ordering him around like her boy and he did it in the past. I have told him to STOP doing that. That is not something he should have been doing in the first place and its practice leads to false expectations of entitlement. [and contempt] Plan A does not involve sacrifice and dropping everything to jump at her whim is exactly that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=looking_for_help]
I told her I was happy she found it and told her to have a good night.

I loved that part!! grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
Thanks for the validation Mel.

I have had a tough time determining where the line is between Plan A and Plan Doormat. I have apparently been a Doormat for a while.

Tiger,
Forgive me if I was rude. I've just been having such a hard time determining where the line is, when I finally think I have made a good decision and then I'm told it was a bad one...I guess I got a little frustrated. Didn't mean to go off on you. I'm a little touchy these days I guess.

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,156
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Tiger,
Forgive me if I was rude. I've just been having such a hard time determining where the line is, when I finally think I have made a good decision and then I'm told it was a bad one...I guess I got a little frustrated. Didn't mean to go off on you. I'm a little touchy these days I guess.
Man, don't even worry about it. When I was writing that it went completely against my own personal instincts, but was trying to follow the MB methods to try and help. LOL, as soon as I did hit submit, I was thinking to myself....this isn't me!

What Mel wrote is what I am thinking and endorse.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
No problem. I really do appreciate any and all advice on here because you can read my thread and tell that I suck at knowing how to deal with this situation.

Seems that everything needs to be dealt with in the exact opposite way we would normally react. Or maybe it's just me.

But I read every comment and suggestion that is posted to me.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
lfh, one of the reasons it is bad to sacrifice is that extreme giving leads to extreme taking. People that sacrifice eventually become resentful and DEMAND equal treatment, usually with angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements. It is called the renters strategy. One of the best marriage books I have ever read was Dr Harley's Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders and it does a great job of explaining how spouses ruin their marriages via sacrifice.

ohohoh! I just remembered that Harley's new article "How to Make Your Wife Happy" tells you how to avoid capitulation. You need to go read that!! http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2626499#Post2626499


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
I read the article and see what he is saying. What is weird is that my WW and I have both always been givers. Looking back over the years I believe we both were just about always giving even if it wasn't what made us happy with ourselves.

Her taker is DEFINITELY in charge right now without ANY question whatsoever. That's all I've heard from her lately..."I bought this...I bought that...I paid for this...I paid for that." When all along everything she says that "she" bought or paid for was paid for with marital money.

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Looking,

Nice job refining and strengthening your plan A. The work you are doing now will hopefully plant a seed that can possibly germinate when 1) you go into plan b, and 2) her affair falls apart. Subpoenaing the POSOM might just be the trick you need. Remember, the key to Plan A is for her last memories of your time together to be positive, life-giving interactions, so that when things go south in her affair or when the POSOM inevitably starts to lovebust, you will then have the advantage.

You need to work hard to leave a lasting impression in Plan A. As others have said, you'll know when your will to Plan A has expired. Then be ready to go to Plan B. The legal proceedings might offer a "natural" deadline that will fortify you with the wherewithal to keep in Plan A long enough to transition to an effective plan b.

I think Melody's advice about exercise is a really good one. I am in your same shoes, and for me the key to getting through this in decent mental health has been 1) faith, prayer, and worship at church, 2) keeping my two girls my focus, 3) staying in touch with family and close friends (their support has been invaluable), 4) working on projects to improve our home, and 5) exercise.

I have read that when you're experiencing this kind of thing you have take good care of yourself. I have actually stopped doing things I used to do for myself like involving myself in various church ministries, flyfishing, watching sports on TV, and other independent activities. I feel that those things were part of the problem in my marriage, so I have opted to do more things that support my girls. They need me to be their rock, just as your kids do.

Your wide emotional swings are natural, Looking. All of us betrayed spouses experience the same feelings because the same aliens have abducted our spouses. I'm glad you have a place to emote. Keeps you sane.

Your wife may or may not come out of the fog. You may or may not take her back. But you have based your recovery on a framework of principles that will be a bedrock in all of your relationships in the future. Regardless of the outcome, friend, you win.


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
Can I Plan A too much or overdo it?

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 542
I'm really hoping dragging the POSOM into some legal territory will get him out of the picture.

I am beginning to think that he will give up before she does.

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 568
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 568
I don't think you can plan A "too much" as long as you are taking care of yourself. But I do think if you get to the end of what you can handle, you need to go into Plan B quickly, not just sit in the middle and undo the good you've done.


Married: 22 years
Me: BW 41
Him: WH 43
Sons: 19, 17, 12
Daughter: 16
DD 8/09
EA started 8/08
PA started 7/09
Brief recovery of a few months in there.
Separated 10/10
Legal Separation 8/11
Plan B 5/17/12
Plan D 5/31/12

My Story
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 51
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 51
Ok, Rookie-lurker here. I have been following your whole thread and would just like to add some female perspective to the whole plan A-thing. Vets, please correct me if I am wrong :-) I personally think the art of wooing a woman does not lie in sounding desperate by showering her with love messages all the time. Sure, she needs to know that, but she must also not think she can do whatever she wants and you'll still love her and beg her to come back to you. In the begin stages of dating a lot of the excitement comes when the girl doesn't quite know what the guy thinks of her, but he spending a whole lot of time with her. By having fun together, he makes a lot of deposits into her lovebank. I think that is something you should try to focus on - find excuses to spend time with her as much as possible and then show her how much fun you are to be with. Use the kids as an excuse to go on family "dates" at first, i.e. a picnic or the zoo or something like that, and keep inviting her to things you know she would enjoy. If she likes spending marital money, get her to go shopping with you - it is your money too, after all. She doesn't need to know it is a date, you just have to make her realize what a catch you are. Don't be needy during dates like that and don't lovebust or talk about the divorce. Have fun, show her how strong you are and show her what she would be missing, should she go ahead with the divorce.

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
He's let her down before. Past is prologue. Tick tock, tick tock.

Page 46 of 59 1 2 44 45 46 47 48 58 59

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 16 guests, and 94 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Convict20, GTNY, Avianna, BootsJeans, B24gordon
71,735 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,549
Posts2,322,799
Members71,735
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5