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Also please listen yo these clips where Dr. Harley tells the BW she's in denial.
Radio clip on denial
Segment #2
Segment #3


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Quote
Steve Harley knew about those EAs and he didn't start there, he started with POJA.
Your husband has made it very clear that he is not interested in POJA.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2642367 07/05/12 04:09 AM
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Penni,

Quote
Okay, I guess because the EAs were mostly the other women pursuing him I didn't view it as something that was alarming enough to post in SAA.

The only person that has promised to keep his vows to you is your husband. The only person that has broken his vows to you is your husband. No other woman has promised you anything.

Him breaking his vows to you is alarming and you making it sound OK is also very alarming.

I would understand your position to keep this crippled status quo IF you had no understanding of MB concepts, if you just didn't know any better. Most non-MB marriages are like that where one person is like your H, gaslighter and abuser, but let's say "normal" in conventional sense. But this normal is not MB normal, it is eating you alive. He will continue to be like he is as long as you let him to. You have to draw the line and let him know what is ok and what is not and make it happen, not just find other ways to deal with it. I hope you find your decisiveness and strength.


Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Prisca
Markos tells me that he's heard Dr. Harley says if you want to have a romantic relationship with a woman, become somebody she texts with.
Yes and here it is.
Radio clip on texting your spouse
Here's another.
Radio clip


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Penni4Thoughts
Steve Harley knew about those EAs and he didn't start there, he started with POJA.

But your husband is not following the POJA. He is not following Steve's recommendation.

Following the POJA would include all the things that need to be stopped in order to protect your marriage from a repeat affair. Following the POJA would cover all of the concerns here.

But he is not doing it, and you cannot do it alone, you cannot do it for him, and you cannot win him over to do it.

Did Steve tell you to do something to try to motivate your husband to follow the POJA. Is there any chance you can talk with Steve again, or send an email to Dr. Harley on his radio show?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2642413 07/05/12 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Penni4Thoughts
Steve Harley knew about those EAs and he didn't start there, he started with POJA.

But your husband is not following the POJA. He is not following Steve's recommendation.

Following the POJA would include all the things that need to be stopped in order to protect your marriage from a repeat affair. Following the POJA would cover all of the concerns here.

But he is not doing it, and you cannot do it alone, you cannot do it for him, and you cannot win him over to do it.

Did Steve tell you to do something to try to motivate your husband to follow the POJA. Is there any chance you can talk with Steve again, or send an email to Dr. Harley on his radio show?

Your husband is not following the assignments, and it is taking a terrible toll on you.

When Dr. Harley has a husband not follow the assignments, he does not tell the wife to go into overdrive trying to get him involved by being spectacular on her end. That rarely works. Instead, he talks with the husband about his failure to carry through on the assignments:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, Effective Marriage Counseling, p.44
When I coach a couple, I let them know from the beginning that I expect them to follow my assignments. If they fail to follow them, I focus on their failure rather than on the marital problems themselves, until they comply.

Your husband has failed to follow Steve's assignments (POJA), and he has broken the feedback loop by dropping out of the program. Unless someone can talk to him (Steve, Dr. Harley, us, someone you know?) and get him to agree to follow the policy of joint agreement, I don't see a lot of hope here, and it's only going to continue to take a devastating emotional toll on you.

Penni, there is little hope for a wife to be able to just "hang in there" until her husband gets on board. That is not what Dr. Harley tells wives to do.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2642596 07/05/12 02:48 PM
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I can't get him to post on the board. I have told him I posted on the board and he was never interested enough to look and see what I was posting.

He says he is open to in-person counseling, so I need to find someone who does MB counseling in our area. I fear that he will not stick with that either, but it's worth a shot.

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I have sent several emails to the radio show and have had responses.

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Originally Posted by Penni4Thoughts
I have sent several emails to the radio show and have had responses.

What did they say to you?

Also if you're not going to do MB coaching at least follow this.
How to find a good Marriage Counselor


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I was on May 7th, 2012, October 27th, 2011, June 8, 2011, and March 7th, 2011.

I mostly asked about specific issues and on May 7th my H stated his case and Dr. Harley responded to it. I can't access them now to listen again, though.

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I do remember Dr. Harley telling me to continue complaining and to avoid DJs.

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Originally Posted by Penni4Thoughts
I was on May 7th, 2012, October 27th, 2011, June 8, 2011, and March 7th, 2011.

I mostly asked about specific issues and on May 7th my H stated his case and Dr. Harley responded to it. I can't access them now to listen again, though.

Here are the links to your radio show discussions:

May 7:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3826

October 27:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3335

June 22:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3007

February 17:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2624





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Are these them?
Radio clip 3-07-11
I couldn't figure which segment was yours on 6-8-11?
Radio clip on 10-27-11
Segment #2 from 10-27-11
Radio clip 05-07-12


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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HDW has them. October 27th was in response to a note from my husband to the Harleys.

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Penni,

Please go back and listen to your calls. Dr. Harley pointed out the things that need to be eliminated.

Your H's anger needs to be addressed. What is he doing for this?
Your H's IB
Your H not following POJA


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Penni,

Please go back and listen to your calls. Dr. Harley pointed out the things that need to be eliminated.

Your H's anger needs to be addressed. What is he doing for this?
Your H's IB
Your H not following POJA


You're right, Brain, those are the things that need to be addressed. He isn't doing much for them now but has said he'd like to work on anger management. I have suggested the MB clips on anger to him but as far as I know he hasn't listened to them. I thought about buying a biofeedback machine like Dr. Harley has talked about on his show, my husband might like that.

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Have you tried recording an AO of his and then playing it back? Dr. Harley talks about a woman doing that and it was eye opening for the H.

You do this without his knowledge of course.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Yes, I have done that. He was shocked at what he said during the AO and surprised that I wasn't egging him on like he thought I was in the moment. I have done it three times and each time he said that it wasn't typical, that it's not how he usually acts when he is mad. I would say that each example was exactly typical.

He always deletes them right away so he knows how bad they are. The last time I saved it in a hidden folder on my computer before he could delete it, though.

I will keep trying to record them and maybe eventually he will start to realize that they are typical.


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Can someone please link me to the last segment from yesterday? I can't figure out how to listen to it. Thanks!

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Here you go.

Your letter was read in this segmen, correct?
Radio clip


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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