hmmmm....maybe it should be on him.

Maybe he knows this and is effecting his motivation??


From what you said before, maybe he looks at the past and you are always there to mop up his messes.


I will leave you with this:


Put away the mop.

H's top EN's are 1) RC 2) DS 3) Affection. I think SF is 5th or 6th.

Woah - I'm gone for a few hours and 37 posts later....

On the "WS doesn't have to be all in" statement: the reason for that is due to the withdrawal, usually, from the AP. And, Dr. H makes a point in saying that a WW doesn't have to be "all in" while a WH usually does. He differentiates between the sexes here.

I would not say that withdrawal from the AP has been the problem here. But, I do understand the point you are making. Further, typically feelings follow actions. Therefore, no matter who is resentful or reluctant, as long as both parties work the program, the "right" feelings follows. Therein lies the problem.

Do your efforts (regardless of your H's) scream self-respect? Hmmmm... that's an interesting thing to ponder. One could say yes, because you're doing everything so that you will have no regrets. On the other hand, if you decide to go all in without requiring your H to as well, the message sent to him from you is, "I'm gonna change for you honey - and you're gonna love me so much that you'll see the need for change too." All the while he's seeing, "this is great - she's changing without me needing too. She ain't gonna leave me..." SO, whether it IS actually self-respecting on your part doesn't even matter. The message sent to him is, "I don't respect myself enough to REQUIRE you to change, for me to stick around."

Do you see the difference there?

As I've mentioned, I was not around at the beginning of your thread so some things are harder for me to comment on. I guess I need to go back to the beginning. But...from the time I have jumped on board what I've seen is that you are doing all you can to seek help, make changes, and your H is only paying lip service.

Perhaps NG sees the pattern he mentioned because there are times you don't mention how things played out - and there are implications and inferences made. (Just like me thinking there'd be no further job discussions. Although - to note - even though there was, there remains no solution.)

I think you are right to consider counseling with SH. Perhaps given the way this has all gone - beginning with 2 reluctant spouses - it is more time that you contact the experts of experts, especially if you have tried so hard and your husband is still at the talk, no action stage.

Of course, at any time HE is willing to come here for help - tell his side of the story - he is more than welcome!

I kinda feel like others have mentioned: usually when a relationship is really good, the SF works itself out. That's why I focus less on that, I suppose. (This is barring any physical reasons for the lack of libido, of course.) Although, it being your #1 need and it not being met - it IS a priority!

A quick PS:

I'm really sorry you did not get "real life" support for reconciliation from those you've told. I can certainly see why that would be a hindrance to your overcoming feelings of shame.

You know, most people think they'd know what to do in these situations. Funny how that all goes out the window when it really happens!

Well WhoWeAre, I have been annoyed all day with your posts. Because I just felt like you didn't quite understand where I was coming from and that you were picking out the negative and not all the positive things I have accomplished, and there are some.

Painting ME as the resentful and bitter B who just wasn't giving my H a fair shake, when in fact I think I have given him more than a fair shake.

But, I must say this is a very impactful post. Because the answer is YES, I think he CAN learn to satisfy my SF needs and YES, I also think he can learn to be a caring partner. And I do not tell him that every day. In fact, I worked so hard to make him understand that he is not God's greatest gift to women, that he is not entitled to cheat, that he is LESS than he thinks he is, I am not quite sure how to send the opposite message. At least without it sounding like it isn't genuine.

I do think it is possible. I wouldn't be here if I didn't (at least I hope I would not be that dense). What I do not know is if he WANTS to do all that. He says he does, but actions speak louder than words, ya know? I guess my lack of faith in him has more to do with his desire and intent than his ability.

You have really hit the nail on the head, because I do not build him up in this way. Not by a long shot. I worked very hard to lay down the resentment and stop tearing him down. But build him up? That still seems like SO FAR OFF. I feel, somewhat, like he needs to earn that from me too. Am I wrong in that? Is this what he meant when he said he was waiting for me to 'rescue him?' Waiting for me to encourage him that he can do this?

Again, where is his responsibility in this? Nobody is encouraging me, other than the occasional encouraging post here (along with many rather 'educational' ones). I am finding it inside myself to do it. Why should I now be responsible for holding his head up along with my own?

But thank you for this insightful post. Sorry for being so snippy all day.

I cannot figure out my own top ENs so I am amazed at people who know themselves well enough.

I don't think my kids would appreciate us walking around here naked all the time...neighbors might not mind tho!

(but I've told ya all about my neighbors...)

Do you believe that those three areas make your husband's love bank fill the most? With all your efforts and your feelings of not making any progress. Is it possible that those are NOT his top? For example, does he really feel "very fulfilled" when you take care of "cooking meals, washing dishes, washing and ironing clothes, house cleaning and child care"? You do not want to work hard at this stuff if he just "likes" it... you want him to be "very fulfilled" when you do it. I will admit that I could never meet the DS EN. I think I would have to hire a maid and hope that my husband did not fall in love with the maid.

Seriously, if your husband does not understand MB very well you might not have gotten a good list of top ENs. I cannot figure out my own top ENs so I am amazed at people who know themselves well enough.

I was poking at your open wound, you can growl at me all that you want.

Hopefully, you have beaten him down enough to have some confidence that he will not let you down again. Now it is time for you to build each other up and use MB to give you a framework. His responsibility is to be part of the team that makes your marriage what it should always have been. Let him know that you need him and believe in him. That you do not want to tell him what to do but you want to figure out what to do together. Explain to him why you think MB will help. Let him tell you what he doesn't like about it. Pick a way to test drive the program to figure out what it means for you and H.

OK. If not naked, how about short dress or short shorts with tank shirt? He can just wear normal clothes or the kids might freak out. Some moms walking around in sexy clothes in public so you can do it at home. Clothes off 20 minutes after the last kid goes to bed.

I'm sure the motivation to "build him up" has been lacking because his account with you is low. He's not meeting your #1 need and he is withdrawing units by LBing...with his withdrawal and stonewalling.

He's got to earn "building up" as has been pointed out. He doesn't do that when he gets upset and withdraws instead of doing something about the issues.

SO, I guess one could argue, which came first the chicken or the egg? Do we feel bad for Mr. UW because he isn't getting built up and he needs to be in order to be able to fulfill his wife's needs? Or, do we say he needs to earn building up in order to be built up? Hmmm....

My solution to this would be to honestly and genuinely compliment him in things that he deserves to be - but not in areas where he hasn't earned. That would not be honest.

Use POJA to put together an action plan on things we both can do to make SF more satisfying. But then, he doesn't do it. He doesn't act on it. So it is a matter of him not acting, not a matter of him not agreeing with the program.

Its like saying, I want to lose weight, I need to lose weight, I am going to lose weight, here is my action plan for dieting and working out. And then going to watch tv and eat a cookie.

He has ASKED me to compliment him on things that I do not feel he deserves to be complimented on. For instance (and I wrote about this here) he once told me he was disappointed that I didn't compliment him on what a good job he was doing on his MB work. Now after 1 1/2 yrs of doing nothing in recovery, not even dusting the books off and bringing them up from the basement, then bringing them up and starting our at home program again, and he was at the time (and now) putting in maybe a 25% effort, I was not super thrilled about complimenting him on this. I did not feel he had earned it yet. His theory was why should I work hard when you don't appreciate it? Because you OWE IT TO ME. You work hard and THEN I will appreciate it, ya know? Its like saying you let me eat dessert, and THEN I will eat my dinner. No, you eat dinner and earn your dessert.