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Originally Posted By: markos
When was your husband's last angry outburst?


Honestly, I am the one "starting" angry outbursts now. My husband attacks me (from my perspective) with a calm logical voice and I just listen without responding until I get agitated and respond with an angry outburst. Then he has an angry outburst. He can honestly say that I am the one escalating the situation. Sometimes he has an angry outburst when I will not parrot a response he is demanding to one of his question.

He will call me at the office and tell me what an aweful person I am in the calmest of voice for a half hour. Eventually I tell him I have to go. Then he will call me back over and over and over again. When I get home he will continue the "conversation" while I am working with the kids or dinner. He likes to do it while I am cutting vegetables and then I have an angry outburst with a knife in my hand.

I have got to stop rising in the situation. I try leaving but that makes him angry. He says I am running away. I have locked myself in a room and he will talk to me through the door.

If Prisca has any tips, I would appreciate them.

Last edited by WhoAreWE; 10/30/12 12:53 PM. Reason: fix typos

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n/m

Last edited by markos; 10/30/12 12:41 PM.

If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
He will call me at the office and tell me what an aweful person I am in the calmest of voice for a half hour.


No matter how calm he is, this is still abuse. As you noted, abuse has to stop before you can use the rest of Marriage Builders to fix the problems in your marriage.

Here is what Prisca would recommend. It is probably her favorite article on Marriage Builders:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

If your husband is not willing to eliminate abuse in your marriage, you need to prepare for a separation.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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WAW your BH reminds me a lot of myself. I don't think I was quite as bad but I certainly did pick away at my WH, as often as it popped into my head to do so. Why? Because I felt like he didn't get it, until I thought he 'got it' and understood how much he had hurt me, how much damage he had caused, I could not let it rest. If I let it rest, he would never understand, he would just move forward getting his needs met without ever understanding what pain he caused. I also felt the need to make him pay. I admit I was a resentful B and then some. In the beginning I would rather have seen him live in a miserable marriage, one that HE created, for the rest of our days, then to leave and be happy myself. I finally had a friend say to me once, are you staying just to make him pay, because you know you are paying a bigger price than he is.

In any case, I agree with Markos that you should not stay in a situation that is abusive. I do though see where he is coming from with his picking at you. Not healthy, not a good answer, and will certainly not create a good marriage, but still, btdt.

I do in your writings see many things that make ME think you don't 'get it.' I feel like you still blame him and feel some justification for your A, still make him out to be the bad guy. You are also still trickle truthing. Nobody who truly understands how much pain the lies and deceit cause in a BS would continue to trickle truth.

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: markos
When was your husband's last angry outburst?


Honestly, I am the one "starting" angry outbursts now. My husband attacks me (from my perspective) with a calm logical voice and I just listen without responding until I get agitated and respond with an angry outburst. Then he has an angry outburst. He can honestly say that I am the one escalating the situation. Sometimes he has an angry outburst when I will not parrot a response he is demanding to one of his question.

He will call me at the office and tell me what an aweful person I am in the calmest of voice for a half hour. Eventually I tell him I have to go. Then he will call me back over and over and over again. When I get home he will continue the "conversation" while I am working with the kids or dinner. He likes to do it while I am cutting vegetables and then I have an angry outburst with a knife in my hand.

I have got to stop rising in the situation. I try leaving but that makes him angry. He says I am running away. I have locked myself in a room and he will talk to me through the door.

If Prisca has any tips, I would appreciate them.

So are you in an anger management program?

Did your BH complete one?
WhoAreWe's Original Thread


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I will not be posting frequently but will come back.

UW,

I have read your messages and will read them again. I will internalize what you have said about me still blaming him. When I am agree it definitely comes out.

BH,

I have not taken an anger management course. My husband's is not complete.


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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I will not be posting frequently but


What? Why?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I will not be posting frequently but


What? Why?


Markos.

The main reason I will post less is because I have a full time job and had spend many days posting while I should have been working.

The other reason I will post less is because I do not feel comfortable posting because my husband does not like it. He does not like me putting his life on the internet. He has given me permission (in anger) but I still feel uncertain about posting.

That being said, today I feel like I have dug myself into a hole so deep that I need help getting out.

Last edited by WhoAreWE; 11/05/12 09:17 AM. Reason: typo

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Originally Posted By: unwritten

I would highly recommend the following actions.

1) Provide your BH with every last detail about your A. Do not leave anything out. Come clean, once and for all. I think it was obvious by reading his post to your previous thread, that he felt there were still stones left unturned, and he was right, there were. This is HAUNTING for a BS. This trickle truthing has got to stop. You are right, it is likely the nail in the coffin. Stop hiding behind his 'reactions' to things for your reasoning for the continued trickle truthing. There are methods for you to be honest but in a safe manner, use them.


There is nothing left for me to tell him. We covered the high level details early on. The low level details have been gone through and he has said he wants to know no more. Of course, he can change his mind.

Regarding your general statement about hiding behind his reaction. You will see in my last thread that I was advised to no give any additional information while physical abuse was still his reaction. Please do not advise others to tell the truth no matter what the reaction might be.

Originally Posted By: unwritten
WAW your BH reminds me a lot of myself. I don't think I was quite as bad but I certainly did pick away at my WH, as often as it popped into my head to do so. Why? Because I felt like he didn't get it, until I thought he 'got it' and understood how much he had hurt me, how much damage he had caused, I could not let it rest. If I let it rest, he would never understand, he would just move forward getting his needs met without ever understanding what pain he caused. I also felt the need to make him pay. I admit I was a resentful B and then some. In the beginning I would rather have seen him live in a miserable marriage, one that HE created, for the rest of our days, then to leave and be happy myself. I finally had a friend say to me once, are you staying just to make him pay, because you know you are paying a bigger price than he is.

In any case, I agree with Markos that you should not stay in a situation that is abusive. I do though see where he is coming from with his picking at you. Not healthy, not a good answer, and will certainly not create a good marriage, but still, btdt.

I do in your writings see many things that make ME think you don't 'get it.' I feel like you still blame him and feel some justification for your A, still make him out to be the bad guy. You are also still trickle truthing. Nobody who truly understands how much pain the lies and deceit cause in a BS would continue to trickle truth.


I feel no justification for my affair. Like Dr. Harley said, the issues we had before the affair still exist today and those still have to be worked through. My husband thinks that because what I did is worse than everything he ever did bad combine that they are not issues that need to be dealt with. I had given him a clean slate about the past on DDay when I saw the the pain I caused him. Now he is repeating old habits and that bring my resentments of the past into the present. Regardless of the affair, I have these resentments and just because I did something terribly wrong it does not mean he gets to do whatever he wants.


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My husband and I have to recover from more than just the affair. Over the past few months my angry outbursts have brought out all of the resentments I had before the affair. Those resentment had disappeared for a period of time after the affair and do disappear pretty quickly but are burning strong right now.

Now that he sees all the resentment I have had he thinks that I am a woman that can never be satisfied. That if he had done "better" I would have just asked for me.

All I need and ever needed was for us to break the habit of Love Busters. He just doesn't seem himself doing it and at this moment I am not stopping myself.


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...just because I did something terribly wrong it does not mean he gets to do whatever he wants.

True. It's a positive development that you can accept that statement. It is, however, without impact unless/until your FBH can accept, and operate on, the same principle.

R(adical) H(onesty) would suggest that you put that proposition to him directly.

He may reject the idea, and, based on your projection of how long his opinion on the matter might remain unchanged, you would at least have a basis for subsequent decisions about your future.

He may accept the idea, and then the joint task becomes that of putting limits on the "whatever" part of the statement.

He might also refuse to give you any input on his alignment with the expressed idea. Well, that would give you a lot of input on where he stands about recovery.

MB is not "marriage at any cost", WAW. You know far better than we how far away from a healthy, vibrant union you are willing to settle and endure.

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
...just because I did something terribly wrong it does not mean he gets to do whatever he wants.

True. It's a positive development that you can accept that statement. It is, however, without impact unless/until your FBH can accept, and operate on, the same principle.


It took me a long time to accept that statement. I was convinced that I should live in purgatory for the rest of my life. He still believes thatt.

Unfortunately, our children are living in the same purgatory.

Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed

R(adical) H(onesty) would suggest that you put that proposition to him directly.

He may reject the idea, and, based on your projection of how long his opinion on the matter might remain unchanged, you would at least have a basis for subsequent decisions about your future.

He may accept the idea, and then the joint task becomes that of putting limits on the "whatever" part of the statement.

He might also refuse to give you any input on his alignment with the expressed idea. Well, that would give you a lot of input on where he stands about recovery.

MB is not "marriage at any cost", WAW. You know far better than we how far away from a healthy, vibrant union you are willing to settle and endure.


I understand what you are saying and am currently trying to calculate how long his opinion on the matter might remain unchanged.

He is hurting so bad right now that we seem too far away from healthy. He has just realized that while he was madly in love with me, before the affair, that I was accumulating resentments. He did not deserve that. I avoided confrontation and over a long period of time it destroyed my ability to see what was good in our lives.

About the time I started coming here I saw a counselor. Based on my description of my marriage before the affair, he asked why do you want to stay married. I tried to explain to him that seeing the pain I caused my husband on DDay made me realize how screwed up my perceptions of him had been. And for the months following the affair (while he still loved me) he tried so hard to show me how much he loved me. It was so apparent how much we had missed out on not being that way every day for the 20 years we have been together.

For us to have a healthy, vibrant marriage he has to see the good, the bad, and the ugly in me otherwise he will still be loving some fantasy that I am not. But he does not see how I can love him after having such bad thoughts and he does not see how he can love me after I was so wicked.

At this point I think he knows everything bad about me there is to know about our past. Now I wait for him to digest the information and decide whether he thinks I can be part of a healthy, vibrant union. Today he thinks I am so bad that there is no hope for me ever being in a healthy, vibrant union.

I told him I would not stay in an unloving marriage. But it was in the middle of a very heated argument and his only take from the statement was that I was threatening him.

Last edited by WhoAreWE; 11/05/12 11:56 AM.

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I had an issue with my husband's behavior toward our son on Friday. He was badgering our son about a TV show he was watching. He came in repeatedly to give our son a hard time. I followed my husband out and told him I thought he had gotten his point across and could stop the conversation. I was proud of myself for communicating that and my husband responded by stopping.

Later my husband started badgering me about somethign else and my resentments boiled up hot. So all day Saturday I thought about similar behavior from the past. I feel like my husband is attacking our son whenever he brings up an area in which my son can "improve". We have tried to cover this conversation in the past and it comes down to him saying we both have different techniques and I should not expect him to be like me.

Every time he badgers our kids it just makes me feel sick inside and about my husband. I thought about it this on Saturday and thought that maybe this would be a place to POJA. When my husband feels like our kids need some discipline we should brain storm ideas and come up with an option we both agree about.

On Sunday, the topic exploded into me over judging every action my husband takes and as always the actual issue cannot be discussed. And our memory of the situation on Friday is so different; he cannot see what he is doing wrong.

My husband recollection is that he went in calmly 3 times to tell our son that he did not like him watching the show on the TV. I was in the room and did not support him at all. The fourth time he went in he was angry and turned the TV off.

My recollection is that my husband walked in and started the conversation with an attack on our son. He said something like "Your mom and I have talked about you getting straight As but you cannot like Math and Science if you sit around watching these shows. You watching these shows means you are NOT a smart kid." My husband has not said he did not say that but will not say there is anything wrong with what he did. He will not say that was attacking our son.

I would say it is one of the worst insults to my son I have heard. And the event support that nothing my son does is good enough for my husband. Straight As do now show he is smart.

My husband expects me to "support" him on this. I will support him on having the kid stop watching stupid shows but I cannot support him during a conversation in which he says such a nasty thing.

I just have to break these bad cycles. MB has tools for us to use. It would be so much easier if we were using them. I cannot do it on my own. I cannot keep myself in control.


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This (television and other mindless entrtainment) is an ideal topic for a POJA introduction, becasue it lends itself to "integral" as opposed to "marginal" decision (the show is either on or off).

You and DH (note the designation) should make a pot of coffee, or sit with a couple of glasses of wine, and take out the TV listings. Start with the easy ones - News programs, mabe the Discovery channel , etc - should go on the "GREEN" list. Obviously moronic lowest-common-denominator exploitation programming - Jersey Shore, Big Brother, etc - goes on the "RED"

As you find something that splits the values, and cannot immediately be agreed upon, put it aside for reconsideration later. Pour more wine. Go through the list, once. Now, if time permits, start on the contentious ones. Get through as many as possible. There may be a point where no agreement can be immediately reached on some shows. If irritation starts, that would be good time to halt for the moment, and celebrate what you HAVE accomplished, with a restart date set for a few days. More wine to seal the deal!

Go back in a few days. Having done research and worked out viewing parameters, and poured more wine, re-attack the list. You will give way on some, and he will give way on some, maybe even with "probationary" listings attached.

Then, print out the list, and TOGETHER present it to son. There is no "appeal" by him to be entertained, and given the dynamic, he'll try to go through you. Do not give him any indication of your being sympathetic to his pleas. Establish "penalties" for the almost inevitable attempts by son to evade your controls. Make those draconian.

See, this was not hard to design, my friend.

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
This (television and other mindless entrtainment) is an ideal topic for a POJA introduction, becasue it lends itself to "integral" as opposed to "marginal" decision (the show is either on or off).

You and DH (note the designation) should make a pot of coffee, or sit with a couple of glasses of wine, and take out the TV listings. Start with the easy ones - News programs, mabe the Discovery channel , etc - should go on the "GREEN" list. Obviously moronic lowest-common-denominator exploitation programming - Jersey Shore, Big Brother, etc - goes on the "RED"

As you find something that splits the values, and cannot immediately be agreed upon, put it aside for reconsideration later. Pour more wine. Go through the list, once. Now, if time permits, start on the contentious ones. Get through as many as possible. There may be a point where no agreement can be immediately reached on some shows. If irritation starts, that would be good time to halt for the moment, and celebrate what you HAVE accomplished, with a restart date set for a few days. More wine to seal the deal!

Go back in a few days. Having done research and worked out viewing parameters, and poured more wine, re-attack the list. You will give way on some, and he will give way on some, maybe even with "probationary" listings attached.

Then, print out the list, and TOGETHER present it to son. There is no "appeal" by him to be entertained, and given the dynamic, he'll try to go through you. Do not give him any indication of your being sympathetic to his pleas. Establish "penalties" for the almost inevitable attempts by son to evade your controls. Make those draconian.

See, this was not hard to design, my friend.


NG,

As always, thank you for your thoughts. I agree that this is a simple one to control. We have Netflix ONLY. It is easy to monitor what the kids watch because it shows up on the recently watched list. DH and myself just need to do it a team.

My son is just looking for ways to fill the time. We do not have any kids his age in the neighborhood. He is pretty much on his own to fill a lot of hours in the day. Just a little bit of positive attention makes him happy. The kid gets excited about doing choirs if someone will just notice and reward the behavior.


Me-41 (WW)
DH-46 (BH)
DD-7, DS-11, DD-15
Together 20 years, married 16
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