Genius, Brainy! Thanks a million.

We listened to the show last night and talked about some of the finer points.

We are both very nervous. Tonight we implement Dr. H's Plan Integrate. I spoke with the kids the other night and told them what to expect and what the goals were. D11 seems on board. S16 a little reluctant, but I expected worse.

NG has concerns about me being resentful that I'll have less direct time with kids. I assured her that what I want more for my kids than time, is to know that they are developing healthily. I believe NG is a great influence and I'm very excited to have her more involved in their lives.

Still interested in anyone's thoughts on Dr. Harley's recommendations (and possible pitfalls), or maybe even just some encouragement.

thanks,

opt

I can't stress how important this is, and it will be great for your kids to witness a great marriage and see how that is.

My kids' dad and I were married for 23 years but we didn't have intimacy and didn't spend quality time alone together. Our kids grew up watching us on opposite sides of the room, and living separate lives. We went to church together and we were good partners in parenting, but it was almost like a cold business relationship. I tried my best to get things turned around but he wouldn't go on walks with me, take me hunting with him, etc. One day he announced he was getting a divorce and a month after he got his attorney, it was over. I often wished we'd fought for it. I remember telling him I thought his divorcing was way too fast but it fell on deaf ears.

When I remarried, we had a great marriage. We were inseparable all of our time off work, we had great communication and we adored each other...and it showed. I feel it gave my kids a better pattern for how marriage could and should be.

My son recently married...he had a talk with his fiance about how the marriage should look...not like his parents' had been. They talked about things to do different, and got premarital counseling. I told him about this site and that I have all of the books and they're welcome to them. They seem to have a great basis for their marriage, as does my daughter and her husband. I am so glad! That is the single most important choice you can make. Their dad was a good person but controlling, unyielding, and had to have things his way. I wish we'd known about this site back then and had access to all of the tools...the great books and information here.

My new marriage? He passed away seven years ago. I remarried in my grief (big mistake) and he turned out to be a con man who was not the least bit interested in our marriage and set out to take me financially and break my heart. Now, I prefer to wing it on my own...

Hi Opt, I listed to the three clips -- very interesting. I can see how your kids would worry about losing you to NG. If you spent a lot of time with them w/o your ex-wife when you were married, then that is what they know. It sounds like you did NOT spend a lot of UA time with your ex. If you spend 15 hrs UA with NG, then to your kids, it WILL seem like she's taking you away from them because of the comparison to what they experienced in your first marriage.

Regarding Dr. Harley's experiment, it sounds like the logical thing to do, but I can see how you'd be nervous about it. I'd be nervous too if I were in your shoes, probably because of the potential for things not working out after a month and then having to question whether or not to postpone your marriage. I don't know how much you've talked with your kids about things, but if it were me, I would explain to them why my first marriage was not good, including the lack of UA time, and how I want to make it better the second time.

I think the really hard part is what Dr. Harley described at the end of the show - the conflict between wanting to put your kids first vs. wanting your marriage to be first. Trying to explain that to my kids would be very difficult if I were in your position. Dr. Harley's rationale for the experiment is that you want to test out the relationship between NG and your kids before getting married, not after, and that is solid advice. In the same vein, I would make sure your kids understand that your marriage will come first before getting married, rather than surprise them with that afterwards -- a delicate situation if you haven't already addressed it. As a kid, to hear that from my dad, could feel like rejection and another reason to feel that he's being taken away by NG.

In your post, you said you were going to start the experiment tonight. How did it go?

Hi KL and KC!
I appreciate your input(s)! It means a lot to have the support and people to bounce ideas off and get feedback, direction, raise concerns, etc. This site (and all the adjunctives) is so helpful. I was talking with NG about how lucky we are that MB is where it is right now -- with Dr. H giving away free advice in his radio show, free books, and good folks here sharing actual MB wisdom (ie. good mods to make sure things stay on track).

Anyway. I will update later (particularly your concerns KL). Last night was really nice. I think we got off to a good start. Great dinner, nice walk on the beach together and throwing the frisbee. We have a long way to go, but I expect it to be uncomfortable for a while; it's a massive paradigm shift we're dealing with here.

NG will come over tonight and have dinner with us. Low key seems to be the key. The kids are supposed to make tacos - another new element I was going to roll out with them this year; one night a week they will make dinner. They wanted to start that tonight.

opt

Ok opt I finally was able to listen (I'm a little behind).

I think Dr. H's advice to include NG when you have the kids is fabulous. That is what my H and I (we're a blended family) did and it has worked out wonderful with the kids.

How has it been going for you guys?

Hey folks!
No time for a real update. Just wanted to peek in and say things have gone better than I expected for the first week of "Operation Integrate" per Dr. Harley's instructions.

KL, I took your advice. Although all those subjects you mentioned had essentially been discussed, the Monday prior to initiation of the new approach, I spoke directly to the kids about what we were trying to accomplish, where it comes from, what to expect, and to let them know they were free to give feedback or ask questions at any point along the way.

Some very surprising positive results have come out of this so far. It's quite inspiring and I'm anxious to talk about it here, just have no time right now.

Brainy, glad to have you along and we're open to any more input you have on blended families. You are making it work and that is heroic in my view.

more to follow...

opt

We have minimized the time I am with my kids without NG present, per Dr. Harley's suggestion. In preparation for the marriage, when we will all be living under the same roof. The importance being to take the last few months to get to know one-another, and not (as my previous strategy) to have a couple last months of Daddy/kids time (what was I thinking??!).

As I suspected, NG is proving to be fun to be around for the kids. She is doing a good job of being the "giver of all good things" per Dr. H. She's a fun person to be around but she's also someone who talks about her feelings, and encourages the kids to say what's on their minds. So, they feel heard, understood, cherished, and loved.

I do NOT feel they are resenting not being with me exclusively.

What I did not expect was how I feel when it's all of us. I am so much more calm and in control. I didn't realize how much I needed a PARTNER in raising the kids. I have been doing a good job on my own for a couple years; granted only 3.5 days/wk, but in that time I have held my own to be a good Dad. But their age difference makes for difficulties - they never talk about the same thing at the same time, for instance. So I have felt like 2 people at once with them a lot. They often aren't interested in DOING the same things. NG being there helps to defray all that.

NG helps in times of decision making, when I am having difficulty. She senses my tension and manages to offer another idea/another avenue where we would have typically been stymied as a "family." She's been through parenting kids this age before, so it's more natural for her...she 'gets' it.

Logistically it has not been easy. We have been to her house together 3x/ in a week (10 mi away). Then we pack up and go home at night. She has spent the rest of the time here, and away from her own home. I believe this is providing an inherent interest in getting married. I didn't really expect that, but there is clearly increased incentive.

So, the expected and unexpected outcomes have been very positive.

This has also given an opportunity to get some things out on the table with S16. He is growing up and we understand he has to be out with his friends and doing teenager things (PT jobs, practicing basketball for upcoming tryouts, etc.). Operation Integrate has given a platform for explaining the importance of Family Time (and why we are trying to accomplish 15 hours/wk together as a family); BUT that we also feel it's important for him to develop as a teenager/pre-adult.

The ultimate goal is that we get S16 involved with at least one substantial recreational activity per week. He enjoyed hiking last week. prior to that we just had a nice walk on the beach, frisbee, etc. This weekend we plan to take a ferry to the harbor islands. We will take the advice from HNHN's and let him pick activities as much as possible. Per that chapter on Family Committment we have really started this at a tough time for him...just doing the best we can.

Interested in any feedback or questions. After one more week, we will give Dr. H and Joyce an update in email (possibly this post modified); so maybe they'll further address it on the radio.

opt

Opt, that sounds great! I'll tell you this, I was also perfectly able and content to take care of my kids alone, which I did for 8 years. We had a very nice and cozy life together (me and the kids), so I was careful in perturbing it by involving a new person. But once I got remarried, I was amazed to see how much better everything became - my wife has added so much to all of our lives, from the practical "I'll get the groceries" or "I'll make us dinner tonight" to the more important emotional care and support - it makes us a much better family.

So I'm happy to see your update, sounds like NG is the one for you and your family .

AGG

I'm happy for you too! I remember you being nervous about trying Dr. Harley's suggestion. Sounds like it's working out great, and what a great confidence builder.

Opt,
to you and NG. Please tell NG I loved hearing her on the show and would love to see her visit us on the boards.

Thanks for the repsponses, folks!
I read them to NG and my posts. She appreciates it and asked me to say so. She hates computers but maybe someday she'll get on "board".

AGG, I appreciate your words of encouragement. Today was the first day of school. Nature Girl was here last night and this am and had a very positive effect on the whole environment. D11 was very nervous to start middle school and really needed the calm motherly influence to keep it together.

I still have a little problem with IB (a big contributing factor as to the course of events in my marriage). We briefly discussed being here at my place tonight but not conclusively. So when I started preparing for dinner (crock pot), NG was taken aback that there was finality in that decision that she hadn't felt totally part of. I don't know what to do about this. I need any suggestions regarding my decision making. I'm way better than before, obviously, but I have a ways to go. I can't keep doing this and then saying "whoopsie, I won't do it again" and then doing it again.

Fortunately NG was very graceful as always and although upset, she did not make it a big issue. Then we POJA'd for tomorrow's events...

Any suggestions about eliminating IB woulod be appreciated.

opt

Hi Opt, how does NG respond when you tell her that you

Does she know you're trying to work on this? I would think as long as she knows you're trying, she seems patient enough to accept incremental improvements while you work on it at your own speed.

I also think spending time together as a family per Dr. Harley's suggestion will help.

How about putting a sticky note on your bathroom mirror that says "I will make joint decisions with NG today." You never know, something that silly might help.

Hey Opt,

That's a tough habit to break. I think you need to be overly concious of all your decision making for a while and maybe create a mental checklist for yourself that includes something like, "is this a decision that pertains to NG and the family? If so, do I have conclusive enthusiastic agreement?" This is a tough habit to break BUT don't beat yourself up too hard; part of it is likely the integration of your lives together after being "single" for quite a while. At that point every decision was your decision and rightly so.

I kind of like KL's suggestion with the sticky note somewhere; sounds like something that might help you keep it in your mind and I have a feeling your fiance might appreciate the physical demonstration that you're taking it seriously. Or you could tattoo it on both your forearms. That would work too. ;-)

Travis

Thanks folks for the suggestions. It helps to hear feedback because at the very least it's nice to have an objective opinion. I read your responses to NG; she's on "board" to some extent.

I did not do anything permanent as to the reminders. But I did talk very openly with NG right after I read your responses and then it has been ongoing ever since. She feels that she has some imrpovement to do with POJA as well.

That's what I love about this girl - not afraid to admit areas where she could be better. And then willing to do the work. -- this was actually mentioned by Dr. H on a recent radio show. Point being that he felt Joyce and him were constantly improving each other and holding each other to a high standard. And they're in their 51st year of marriage.

Anyway, I think talking about it has helped a lot. I've have also taken TCs advice to literally poja practically everything even if I feel it's overboard. A littel overcompensation for now -- while also explaining to NG that I'm not trying to be annoying, just retraining my brain. She's cool with it.

Operation Integrate is going well -- I'll report more on that later.

This w/e we are going on a camping/hiking trip in NH. Looking for some killer UA time and a little R&R.

opt

Have a great time!

Happy Birthday opt.

Brainy thanks for the birthday wishes!

We had a great weekend including taking the kids to a college hockey game. We've been doing more activities like that -- based on a chapter in HNHN for Parents, we finally figured out that if we want DS16 involved we have to plan activities which he enjoys. 2 weeks ago we took all the kids to a college football game. We've been struggling for so long to get everyone involved, but the natural resistance was from DS16, now we at last seem to have reached a bit of a formula and will try to build on it.

Thing is, we are striving for more family time, as suggested by Dr. H in our last phone conversation. NG has been trying to be present more when I'm with the kids. It was a bit of a transition (especially for the kids, as they were used to "having me all to themselves" for that time). We explained it to them. They got it intellectually but in practice I think it is becoming clearer that it's nice to have NG around more; they seem to be accepting her and feeling less of a threat.

Wow how long it took to get to this point. And we have a ways to go, but progress is happening. It took a push from Dr. H and a new insight; including the re-reading of HNHN/P.

I have brought the kids to NG's house a few times as well; to take some of the burden off NG driving back and forth. That has been a little troublesome for the kids as they are out of their comfort zone of home. We've had to abandon that to some extent due to DD11's dance classes, logistics, school and homework responsibilites. This has limited our FT, but the commitment we've made with DD11's dance classes is just another challenge we face.

The most important thing has been the scheduling. Every Sunday we sit down at the table and map out the week. It's mostly the same week to week but what subtle differences there are get discussed and planned. We've been able to maintain 15 hours of UA most weeks and get about 10 of FT (ideally 20 and 15, but gosh that's difficult).

We've noticed to our dismay that often we have a potential 20+ hours of UA in the calendar but then only wind up with 13-15, for instance. We've tried to improve on the ratio between potential and actual; it's amazing how things interfere (dogs, kids, unexpected events). [the hinking/camping weekend mentioned above was greatly impacted by D21's car breaking down and us going over everything with her via phone from 100 miles away...I don't know how to avoid things like that- she was in a bad spot and couldn't be ignored].

We've also embarked on a nutritional journey together. I heard a fellow speak on the radio a few months ago about plant-based diets and the dangers of cholesterol and fat in the typical american diet. Didn't think much of it at the time, but then I heard him again, and then NG heard him and looked it up on the internet. Low and behold, NG has had anxiety about heart health for a long time as she has family hx of cardiac issues. So we bought the book and have been on a plant-based diet ever since (4 weeks and counting). It's been a fun thing to do together -- cooking differently and shopping differently and discovering new healthy experiences). We both feel great, have lost weight (good for the AS EN), and enjoy the prospect of clean arteries.

NG finally filled out her EN questionnaire, much to my delight. It was pretty much like I expected but it was fun to go over them together.

So, I'm trying to update quickly before work. As you can see, things are mostly pretty darn good. I sppose there have been a few bumps even in the last few weeks, but nothing is coming to mind. We manage to get through things with good open and honest communication.

We have started talking about finances which is really important going into the marriage. This will continue to be a focus fr us to work on and plan together; the divorces have been devastating to both of us financially and NG has raised her kids alone without a cent of CS for 10 years. We both have considerable debt but feel we can manage it together with a plan in place. It's taken a while to get this started due to the anxiety associated with it all, but I like NG's sentiment that she's willing to take the bull by the horns and go after it together.

We have yet to set a date for the wedding. NG is in the final phases of getting annulment paperwork in to the church. I expressed some time ago that this felt like it was hanging over our heads and wanted her to get out from under it before we proceeded with plans. I think she'll get it in this week.

Anyway, we're more focussed on the Marriage and less on the Wedding at this point, which I think is best.

Interested in any comments or suggestions. Thanks for reading my long and belated update!!

opt

Hi Opt, seems like a long time, and I'm glad you updated your story. Sounds like things are proceeding very well, and you and NG are addressing everything you need to be addressing.

I think your 75% return rate on scheduled vs. actual UA time is good for a couple in your situation; kids will always have unforeseen issues that arise, sometimes at the most inopportune moments. You're doing well to acheive 13-15 hrs/wk, and I don't think you should be dismayed at all!!

Good to hear you're improving your diet. I'm a big fan of healthy eating. Have you eliminated all sources of animal protein? Are you vegetarian or vegan? Personally, I find that it's hard to get enough quality protein without eating fish and lean cuts of meat, preferably free-range. Just curious about the details of your diet.

One thing I appreciate from your post is NG's involvement with your family life. I recently started a relationship with a woman who has no children, and mine are 22 and 20 and can take care of themselves. In my previous relationship, she had two teenage boys, and what a world of difference. Dating someone without kids is so much easier, and I hope you (I'm sure you do) appreciate NG for working with you the way she does. She sounds like an amazing woman. You're lucky to have her!

Good luck with the next few steps of getting the annulment and choosing a wedding date; and don't wait a month for the next post!

Thanks KL!
You're right, it's been a long time. I'd like to get a letter to Dr. H as an update, but his assignment has left little spare time to even post here.

Anyway. I'm pretty happy with 13-15 hrs UA. I am quite in love and feel we are doing good to overcome and manage a lot of obtacles. To NG's credit, she is very intent on doing MB "by the book" and is very concerned about things creeping in and years later devolving (like lots of marriages do over time). She gets very concerned about 13 and would rather see 20. So I guess that would be where we have a little difference of emotion. I tend to see the positives if we don't achieve more -- like, "hey, we were able to help the kids get through something, or we spent more family time that week." Maybe it's a matter of priorities; and I will say I'm blessed to have someone in my life who prioritizes US.

I agree I'm also lucky to have someone who understands and is willing to take on the role of dating someone with kids. It's VERY complicated. I do appreciate it and I also appreciate you mentioning it.

We read Esselstien's book on heart disease and have adopted a vegan plant based diet. It seems extreme on paper, but I dont' really see it that way. Now that I understand what most "food" is made of, it seems more extreme to eat IT rather than real food. My craving for fats and oils is diminishing and I've learned to love other things like mustards and grains, vegetables. We stick with steel cut oats almost every day - sounds boring but it's not, it's delicious. Not that worried about protien - we do a lot of bean and lentles and very little tofu (which has developed a bad name due to the high amount of processing they do that that now). It's been a good experience.

We'll keep plugging. I'll post the email to Dr. H when I get around to it.

opt

You sound good Opt.

Not a fan of the plant based diet, but I like the rest of the update.