Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Mr Wondering,

I posted this in other topic forum so it's not in SAA forum.

These emotional disorders seem quickly dismissed by some.
In my case, they were quickly dismissed when I came to this forum. Even on this thread, posters question if my ex wife actually had some type of mental disorder.

As Dr Harley clearly states in the Radio shows above, there are people born with these traits and they do exist.
That's why he uses the term "Electric Fence Disorder" and he says tey go through life with that fence around them.

In my case, what I found was as I catered to the insane thinking I lost my own clarity.

Now for premarriage he did urge a caller to carefully consider if she wants to be essentially a caretaker for her boyfriend who has this personality.

On the flip side, as mentioned on page 2 of the thread, some believe that if a person repents of their sins and follows Christ then they can have fulfilling relationships and participate in the POJA.

One theme is clear: the exception to the POJA is safety and health. These issues should never be trampled upon by someone that is not capable of making healthy decisions.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Even on this thread, posters question if my ex wife actually had some type of mental disorder.

If you're talking about me, I question whether your wife has a PERSONALITY disorder, not "some type of mental disorder". Please be very clear about that.

Dr H did not diagnose your wife with a personality disorder - he used the terms "mental disorders", "serious emotional disorders' and "emotional disorders" throughout his email to you. He never used the term "personality disorder" even once, and yet you have consisted posted that he diagnosed your wife (whom he has never evaluated) with a "personality disorder".

Personality disorders and emotional disorders are different, and yet you have conflated them in this thread under the title "emotional personality disorders".

At various points in her life health professionals have talked about your ex wife having post-partum depression and even bi-polar disease. At times, she was given medication for depression and had not taken it, so clearly there was a diagnosis involved there. I'm not questioning that she had a mental disorder but I do not see any diagnosis ever given by a mental health professional that said she had a personality disorder. You insists that there was one given by Dr Harley but refuse to provide the evidence.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
I don't know how many times across various forums you have told people that Dr H diagnosed your wife with a personality disorder - dozens of times. You have created this false impression again and again. You don't provide the evidence for that and I can see that he didn't use that term in that email that you cite at the beginning of this thread. Why do you insist on saying that he diagnosed a personality disorder when he didn't?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Originally Posted By: MrWondering
However, if you are reading this thread wondering if your spouse is crazy too, absent a previous diagnosis, I caution you that although waywardism is a characteristic of many disorders and waywards tend to demonstrate other diagnostic characteristics WHILST wayward, waywardism alone is not a mental disorder and MB can and should be still attempted first because it's unlikely your spouse is truly mentally ill. Unfortunately, way too many betrayed spouses spend way too much time trying to psycho-analyze and internet diagnose their wayward spouses...time that could much better be spent fighting the affair, learning the MB program, taking care of themselves, taking care of their families, working at their jobs, etc.


x 100

There may be some valid disorders out there but there are also plenty of BSs/onlookers who don't want to admit that their WSs simply don't care and are still trying to find that "logical" answer to "How could you?"



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted By: SugarCane
So who diagnosed her with a personality disorder? A medically-qualified doctor?


In my specific case, I am unaware of any diagnosis.
I proceeded under the assumption that she had a emotional disorder after Dr Harley told me she probably had one.
But when outsiders looked within, they always found her behaviors bizarre. My thinking had actually became insane because I defended and covered up te bizarre behavior. (which actually enables it and did not help her)

According to the BPD organization, most of them aren't diagnosed because they don't think they have a problem and (and probably wouldn't trust any professional that diagnosed them anyways).

Your post has been edited to remove the words "personality disorder" which you have consistently used to describe what Dr Harley said about your wife, to now read "emotional disorder" as if you used that phrase all along.

I think you should admit that you have been using the wrong terminology all this time and that Dr H did not say your wife has a personality disorder.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
These emotional disorders seem quickly dismissed by some.
In my case, they were quickly dismissed when I came to this forum. Even on this thread, posters question if my ex wife actually had some type of mental disorder.


That's because a lot of them are bunk. And Dr. Harley says they are bunk. Just because such things as bipolar disorder or schizophrenia exist does not mean that there's really such a thing as "narcissistic personality disorder" or "intermittent explosive disorder."

Quote:
As Dr Harley clearly states in the Radio shows above, there are people born with these traits and they do exist.


Some of them, yes. Not all of them, according to Dr. Harley.

That's why he uses the term "Electric Fence Disorder"

I've never seen him use the term "disorder" with his "electric fence" concept.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight

These emotional disorders seem quickly dismissed by some.


Dr. Harley has said the opposite, though. He has said that people are too quick to chalk traits of infidelity up to mythological "disorders." He has also warned people against diagnosing their spouses. So, the truth is that PDs, mental illnesses, mid life crises and emotional disorders are too quickly embraced by those who are in denial. The embrace of such an "illness" can quickly become an obstacle to success if allowed to persist.

And even if there ARE "disorders," a person can still have a great marriage. Like Harley said in the clip I posted, the vast majority of people who show up for help have a personality disorder. It does not stop him from helping them. [look at me! ]

So, I would caution you against using this thread for the purpose of making armchair diagnoses to betrayed spouses on our board. I sure hope I am wrong because that would create a huge problem between you and I. HUGE.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
MB Radio link:

Dr Harley addresses personality disorders and types.
He explains that if persons with a personality disorder chose to follow his program they can do so successfully.
He also cautions some simply can't become more thoughtful.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=0754#


He says that most people he has worked with throughout his career have "personality disorders." "Just because a person has a personality disorder does not mean they can't work this program."

He has never had a case where the program didn't work when they worked it, regardless of their "disorder." "People can rise above their personality problems and become thoughtful people."

He discusses the personality test he gives us when we sign up for his course. The higher the score, the harder it will be to use the program. I - personally - scored VERY HIGH and even though it has been tough, I have learned to be thoughtful and have learned to use the POJA.

I know someone on this thread who scored HIGHER than me and they are able to use the program too!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I know someone on this thread who scored HIGHER than me and they are able to use the program too!!


I believe I scored a 26 or something horrendous. Prisca's was also high. I used to have both of our scores in my signature here as a joke, along with comments to us being dueling dictators, but I took that out when I updated my signature to refer to Prisca as my "trophy wife." smile

My understanding is that this score means it is hard for Dr. Harley and his staff, or anyone else, to motivate me to follow the rules consistently. Over the three years I've done Marriage Builders, I've had to learn the hard way that when I quit following the rules, disaster ensues, and that the rules are very exact (i.e., ELIMINATE love busters, not just "greatly reduce" love busters).

I don't know if Dr. Harley classifies a high score on his test as a "disorder" or not, but I suspect I do probably have something akin to obsessive-compulsion in many respects. smile But that's just me armchair diagnosing myself. The thing about being OCD (or whatever) is that you still have to confront the fact that you can't demand your spouse comply with your obsessive preferences, and expect to have a good marriage.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
These emotional disorders seem quickly dismissed by some.
In my case, they were quickly dismissed when I came to this forum. Even on this thread, posters question if my ex wife actually had some type of mental disorder.


That's because a lot of them are bunk. And Dr. Harley says they are bunk. Just because such things as bipolar disorder or schizophrenia exist does not mean that there's really such a thing as "narcissistic personality disorder" or "intermittent explosive disorder."

Quote:
As Dr Harley clearly states in the Radio shows above, there are people born with these traits and they do exist.


Some of them, yes. Not all of them, according to Dr. Harley.

That's why he uses the term "Electric Fence Disorder"

I've never seen him use the term "disorder" with his "electric fence" concept.



It's funny...I drafted and deleted a similar thought earlier on this thread...

When he was on radio talking to the guy about his borderline personality disordered wife he tip-toed around diagnosing the wife himself. He said what OTHER psychologists would likely diagnose her with and how OTHER psychologists would treat her (regressive FOO therapy). I didn't listen to the whole show super carefully and he may have later just said she had/has BPD, but initially he distanced himself from making the diagnosis so maybe he just used the BPD diagnosis to help explain the situation to the listening husband (i.e.- your wife is somewhat disabled and now that you know how and why...you need to stick it out to protect your children..at least until they get older).

It also may be relevant that he didn't recommend the husband put his wife in therapy. Just love her more and it's likely better for everyone if you stick it out.

Perhaps personality disorders are just traits to him...and, mostly irrelevant to implementing the MB methodology going forward (something to be worked out in the poja and bad habit lessons)


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: markos
[

I don't know if Dr. Harley classifies a high score on his test as a "disorder" or not, but I suspect I do probably have something akin to obsessive-compulsion in many respects. smile But that's just me armchair diagnosing myself. The thing about being OCD (or whatever) is that you still have to confront the fact that you can't demand your spouse comply with your obsessive preferences, and expect to have a good marriage.


Go listen to that radio clip!! He says that most of us that come to see him have personality disorders and he measures it on that test he gives us!! WE FLUNKED!! rotflmao


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
MrsW flunked too!! rotflmao


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
MB Radio link:

Dr Harley addresses personality disorders and types.
He explains that if persons with a personality disorder chose to follow his program they can do so successfully.
He also cautions some simply can't become more thoughtful.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=0754#


He says that most people he has worked with throughout his career have "personality disorders." "Just because a person has a personality disorder does not mean they can't work this program."

He has never had a case where the program didn't work when they worked it, regardless of their "disorder." "People can rise above their personality problems and become thoughtful people."

He discusses the personality test he gives us when we sign up for his course. The higher the score, the harder it will be to use the program. I - personally - scored VERY HIGH and even though it has been tough, I have learned to be thoughtful and have learned to use the POJA.

I know someone on this thread who scored HIGHER than me and they are able to use the program too!!


Yeah I can just imagine how high I would have scored,with all the knowledge I had obtained, through the years of the gaslighting..Not to dismiss my own denial issues, and mental blocks, that I had developed..

The program works for those who are able to buy into it, because it depends on the individual, and their ability to sync with the other individual, to whom they are married to, and there is no in-between.

All the buzzwords and babble get left behind when the proper actions take over, and actions speak louder than words do.

To Rise above, to transcend, is always our choice, and if we want it bad enough, we will.

As the good book says, "We are in need of instruction", and thank God, we are always able to learn

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 1
Wanted to say this was a great thread. Thank you Jedi.

For me it pulled stuff together that I had never seen gathered in one place. I always wondered about postings where people said 'Dr H says my spouse is . . ' It always seemed extraordinarily unprofessional for him to be doing third party diagnoses - now I see that he does no such thing.

And I totally buy into the concept that we all have difficult personalities one way or another. Those apparently perfect loving and gentle people amongst us have trouble with radical honesty and nobody is truly successful unless they have a massive ruthless streak...

In my own case my XH 'diagnosed' me with attachment disorder because I was adopted. He was (presume still is) a world class gaslighter and so I almost bought into the concept. His endless adulteries were 'his way of coping with my inability to trust him'. (yup, he really said that).

I was snapped out of it by our very first POJA done with the help of Dr Chalmers. The POJA is the most magic thing in Dr H's box of magic tricks. God bless him :-)


3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Living well, my wife also diagnosed me with various things, from autism to being psychotic.
I understand how you believed him.
It's hard to think clearly when you live in the insane asylum

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted By: SugarCane

Dr Harley is not a medical doctor and is not in a position to diagnose a personality disorder.


According to Dr Harley, he is a licensed clinical psychologist and qualified to diagnose and treat all types of mental illnesses

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,434
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: SugarCane
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted By: SugarCane
So who diagnosed her with a personality disorder? A medically-qualified doctor?


In my specific case, I am unaware of any diagnosis.
I proceeded under the assumption that she had a emotional disorder after Dr Harley told me she probably had one.
But when outsiders looked within, they always found her behaviors bizarre. My thinking had actually became insane because I defended and covered up te bizarre behavior. (which actually enables it and did not help her)

According to the BPD organization, most of them aren't diagnosed because they don't think they have a problem and (and probably wouldn't trust any professional that diagnosed them anyways).

Your post has been edited to remove the words "personality disorder" which you have consistently used to describe what Dr Harley said about your wife, to now read "emotional disorder" as if you used that phrase all along.

I think you should admit that you have been using the wrong terminology all this time and that Dr H did not say your wife has a personality disorder.

Care to address this, Jedi, rather than cherry-picking posts that contain mistakes that are favourable to you?

I was told by the poster wondringif that clinical psychologists are allowed to do this where you are, and I acknowledged my error in assuming that the UK position was the same as in the USA. Why go back to that post when I've acknowledged my error?

Why not address my claim that you have been saying erroneously that Dr H diagnosed your wife with a personality disorder when he did no such thing?

You have been using the wrong terminology about what Dr Harley told you for months on this site, and it would be decent for you to acknowledge that, and set the record straight.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Dr Harley testifies against gay marriage before the Minnesota State Senate.
He said most gay people have mental disorders and encourages changing orientations from homosexual to heterosexual.

His testimony is at the 53:00 minute mark on the YouTube Video.

http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/

Dr Harley also wrote a book Defending Traditional Marriage:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6027_dtm.html

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Dr. Harley on Midlife Crisis (MLC):

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
barbiecat:

I don't usually put much emphasis on MLC because it tends to be a distraction when trying to solve a marital problem in the most efficient and effective way possible. For example, if a man has an affair, some might argue that it's due to a mid-life crisis which should be treated first. The therapeutic plan would then dictate that he resolve the issue creating the crisis (he's unhappy about the way his life is turning out) and then address the affair itself. Since those having affairs usually want to delay ending them, they like the idea of extended therapy. But the time it takes to complete therapy for midlife crisis usually results in a wife and children long gone.

Granted, when a man has come to my office deeply depressed, wondering if his life's worth living, even I have used the term, mid-life crisis, to help describe what he's going through. Sometimes, in an effort to rise above his depressive state, he uses alcohol and drugs, and very rarely, infidelity, to treat his depression, which invariably makes him even more depressed.

The problem of mid-life crisis, and the resulting deep depression, is almost always due to a man's career. But if he's using drugs, alcohol, or having an affair as a way to treat his depression, my first order of business is to rid him of these self-destructive measures, and then to treat the mid-life crisis. His short-sighted solutions are far more damaging to him than the problem itself.

Why isn't the issue of mid-life crisis mentioned more in my articles? Because it's a very rare cause of infidelity, but a very common excuse to avoid prompt action to end an affair.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
MB Radio link:

Dr Harley says that hoarding is a mental disorder and offers advice for dealing with spouses that have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder:

(last half of segment): http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=01081#

Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 28 guests, and 40 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Lethabo, Livn1dayAtaTime, widup, Reggg, Endlessvow
71,682 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,528
Posts2,322,563
Members71,682
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5