Please read.

Art of War by Sun Tzu
Never Take the Word of a Wayward
Conflict Avoidance is the Kiss of Death

I'm new here too, but it seems that everyone's being a little harsh with this guy. Come on, he's here for support. Don't call him a coward and give him visuals of his wife with the OM. He wants to save his marriage, and he put a plan in place to do some recon stuff while getting his wife to be less paranoid and lower her guard.

I'm just a little unclear on what's so bad about this. He said he'll raise the issue before the conference.

Thanks StC. I really appreciate your post.

Look, let me be clear to everyone, that my marriage is in an absolute shambles. WW swears to me up and down that everything is over, that there's been no contact, and everything I've seen so far confirms that.

That said, I think snake has the right of it and I'm trying to dig deeper, but WW is totally paranoid and irrational. I need evidence, and I don't have any right now. My wife is in a specialized field and this is the biggest conference of the year. She claims that if we want to make a move somewhere else, to a different company, or part of the industry, that she needs to attend, as everyone of note will be there.

I have thought about hiring a PI to attend as well.

I welcome any suggestions and constructive criticism, but some of you are just being mean.

If she insists on going, what are you going to do?
Do you plan to attend the conference with her?

Here's where we are so far.

1)The conference itself is a couple of hours away by car, and she's willing to come back at night and return the next day. While this sounds good to me, it also means that she would return very late at night, and the conference is at a hotel and OM is sure to have a room.

2) She said it would be humiliating for me to be walking around with her at the conference itself, but I may go anyway (not on the conference floor) but just to be around and meet her for lunch or something like that.

3) As mentioned previously, I'm thinking of hiring a PI to attend and keep his eye on the 2 of them.

4) One of the attendees will be a good friend of WW, who knows about the A and is NOT supportive of it. She told me she'd stick to my wife like glue.

5) While WW may be going to the conference to see OM, I don't think that this is necessarily the case. She has shown from her past experience, that if she wants to get together with him, there is no need to go out of town for that purpose.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Well it really depends on what you want to achieve.

If you want great evidence, then let her go to the conference and hire a PI to catch her with him.

But great evidence is not going to save your marriage is it? Her hooking up with him again would be disastrous for you and allowing it also makes you look very uncaring.

Even if she does not physically touch him, because of the accountability measures you have put in place, she will still be triggered by the sight of him.

If she happens to so much as glimpse him, her withdrawal clock reverts back to day one. Not that she has even started withdrawal yet because she still moons over his FB page!

I misunderstood your post when you agreed to let her go. I had not realised you were seriously considering allowing something so crazy.

I wouldn't have counselled you to say such an enabling thing either, but since you already had, a few days of her feeling falsely secure might have given you a snooping edge. But of course you need to put your foot down regarding this conference and you need to do it soon!

Of course she willl go nuts and scream that she hates you if you put your foot down. Of course she will. So what?

Then she should have considered that before having an affair.

Try something along the lines of "I'm sorry your affair has hurt your career"

One of the most important 'sticks' to be used for breaking up fog is not letting the wayward dodge any consequences they have rightly earned due to their poor actions.

Some of the BSs here, some of the ones being labelled as 'mean' have suffered themselves as a result of these consequences. Yet they insisted their spouse moved/changed jobs/tackled the humiliating and embarrassing job of exposure.

Standing firm to a plan of recovery often sees huge sacrifices made. Why should a BS suffer financially because a WS has screwed their own career?

Yet many MB spouse have insisted their family make a financial sacrifice, in the face of their spouses' anger, BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE COMES FIRST!!!!!

It is quite clear that the marriage does not come first to your WW and she needs to be disabused of this notion right now.

The difference between a remorseful and non remorseful spouse:

R: "I have screwed up my career, I guess I am to blame for that"

NR: "Why should I have to suffer in my career? I said I was sorry"

R: "I would rather see my career go up in flames than see my BH suffer one moment's uncertainty after what I have done to him"

NF: "Don't you trust me? You should try harder to trust me so I do not have to do anything difficult"

Get the jist?

So please help me.

Demands don't work with her. They simply don't. If I demand that she not go, I believe that she would actually go out of her way to attend, just to show me that I can't control her.

If I say she can attend, then she sees that I'm being sympathetic instead of controlling. I'm using this time to try to get info, but the truth is that she's all but stopped using the home computer and I can't get to her work one. Her phone is always with her, and I mean always. She doesn't let go of it for a second.

Yes, it's clear that she's not respecting me or my concerns. And she told me flatly that while she won't be seeking him out at all, there will be temptation if she sees him.

And yes, something will need to be done soon.

I really like the part about saying "I'm sorry that your affair has ruined your career."

I find myself apologizing all the time for things. I guess she's made me feel responsible for the affair. I was a total work-a-holic and wasn't there for her. So I'm trying to show her in so many different ways how I can be a better husband and the man she wants to have in her life.

But the one thing that I haven't really said is, "Yes, I wasn't there for you, but YOU had an affair."

Help.

Plan A is about being a REASONABLE spouse NOT a doormat!

And a reasonable spouse would not allow it!

Women in particular find it almost impossible to love a doormat.

Her plan is to grind you down so she can continue with her A unimpeded. She will use your inactivity to abuse you in her mind and tell herself you are not worth feeling guilty over.

I know that sounds far fetched, but we have seen waywards actually claim that the BS they have driven into nervous breakdowns don't dress as attractively as the OP. That's how callous addicts get.

It doesn't matter wheter she AGREES with your stance, what matters is that you MAKE it.

Tall, proud and resolute.

When her A is all dust and ashes, she will remember how you behaved when the chips were down

And more importantly, no matter what happens, so will you

A selfish demand lovebuster carries the threat of punishment. Such as anger or moodiness or withdrawal. She is making PLENTY of these threats but make sure you are not. Be firm and loving while drawing this boundary. If she defies the boundary, that's up to her. She is free to screw up the marriage as well as the career if she is dead set on it. Just let her know the score first.



Then you would show up unannounced and not leave her side. Of course, later when you are both alone, her head will swivel 360 degrees but so what? You will have caused huge trouble in the A simply by showing up. In wartime, conflict is the AIM.



No reasonable person could say NC with an ADULTERY PARTNER is controlling!! The 'sympathetic' line is simply her giving you some rope to hang yourself with. Why should you be sympathetic of her aims to dodge all consequences and flirt freely with her AP?


The A is definitely still on.

She will slip up. They always do. Have you tried voice recorders? GPS?

Where is her phone when she is asleep?

Welcome to MB StaytheCourse.

Have you read what Dr. Harley says about contact between affair partners?

In her hand, under her pillow, and she's a light sleeper.

I know she's using whatsapp for her texting also, so nothing will show up on the phone records.

She gave me access to her facebook and email, so if the A is still on, she's not using either of them for contacting the OM. She's too smart for that.

A little wayward translation for you: "I am in constant contact with my OM and of course, I am lying through my teeth about you because he is jealous I came home.

"I have told him you are weak, and generally uncaring and do not care about the things that matter to me. I will be humiliated as a proven liar if you show up to support my career!

"We also have plans to hook up and he will be very annoyed if I allow you to disrupt that".

Stop listening to her literally and start reading between the lines. Did you read the links Brainy posted for you? Some good stuff.

Mine did exactly the same, even took it into the shower. Yet he still messed up and left it out one day because affairs are exhausting. Be vigilant. The truth will always out. Especially when you are snooping for it.

Did you read these?

So what did you do?

Even if she slips up one day and doesn't take it into the shower...then what? I'll have 5 mins before she realize's it's gone.

I'd love to get gps or a tracking software on the phone, but it takes longer than that, and she has a killer anti-virus on her phone which prevents spyware downloads.

Any ideas?

Maybe some kind of synching device?

Yes, I read the articles, and they were helpful, particularly the one about conflict avoidance.

Problem in my case is that if she isn't willing to talk about something, she just totally shuts down. She won't say a word and looks at me with a such hostility. This is what she does anytime I bring up the affair. As far as she's concerned, it's been discussed, and now I need to lay off.