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Found the clip about the different types of liars.
Radio Clip on the Different Types of Liars

Still looking for the clip JC was referring to.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
This reminds me of a MB radio show I heard during the past few months. If I remember correctly, the couple had promised each other that they would remain virgins until their wedding day. However, the man had sex with another woman during the engagement period and didn't tell his wife until after they got married. The wife was really upset, and called into the radio show for advice. Dr. Harley's approach suprised me. Basically, he said the husband had already broken the terms of the marriage contract by marrying her under false pretenses. I don't remember whether the wife said she would have married him anyway, but Dr. Harley said she had the right to decide whether she wanted to remain married. The basic idea was that the marriage contract could be considered null and void because he'd duped her into the marriage though "false advertising."

In my opinion, your situation is even worse than the caller's because Trueform didn't just withold information about her past; she outright lied about it until after you married her.

I hope you and Trueform are able to get the whole truth out in the open, and then move forward with real recovery.

BrainHurts: Do you happen to know which radio show I'm referring to? I would like to post a link in case I'm remembering it inaccurately.
JC,

Is this it?
Radio Clip on Cheating Prior to Engagement
Segment #2


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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It�s been an interesting week. Trueform seems to have turned the corner and I see and feel an availability and openness in her that I never have before. This is not something from the A, but what has been inside her always, and the thing that made the A possible. She seems to finally be able to look at herself honestly which will allow the MB work do it�s magic.

Thursday I called the OM. This was something I needed to do just for myself. It went about as well as I could have expected and I think I have a greater peace of mind for doing it. I did take some guilty pleasure in hearing of the countless hours his BW has spent grilling him�.oh, and EP�s she has put in place.

I don�t post very often but this board is wonderful. I read many of the threads and you guys have really kept me in the game at times I feel like quitting, thanks.

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Thursday I called the OM. This was something I needed to do just for myself. It went about as well as I could have expected and I think I have a greater peace of mind for doing it. I did take some guilty pleasure in hearing of the countless hours his BW has spent grilling him�.oh, and EP�s she has put in place.

I'll pay you a dollar to elaborate!

grin

I need some guilty pleasure too.

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Quote
Thursday I called the OM. This was something I needed to do just for myself. It went about as well as I could have expected and I think I have a greater peace of mind for doing it. I did take some guilty pleasure in hearing of the countless hours his BW has spent grilling him�.oh, and EP�s she has put in place.

I'll pay you a dollar to elaborate!

grin

I need some guilty pleasure too.
You got it Pep. I�ll give a little back ground to give it some perspective. This long distance stuff started over 30 years ago, long before I ever met Tf. Midway through her second year of college she transferred schools and moved from the east coast to the west. This began their phone relationship, with the occasional shared vacation� puke . He broke up with her during their last semester to date his current BW.

While he was dating and engaged he was still calling Tf. I didn�t know anything about OM�s BW until I called her last year to expose. She told me that the week they got married she had heard that Tf may be in town. She said she told OM that if Tf was anywhere that city he would be standing alone at the altar.

He continued calling Tf after he was married, telling her his BW would probably divorce him if she knew. After a couple years Tf stopped it and spoke with his BW and apologized, this all came out when I exposed to his BW last year. Tf and I were married 3 years later and lived��

I actually did appreciate most of what he had to say when we spoke. He began by apologizing for what he had done to me and my family. He swore he would never again contact Tf in any way and that he and his BW nearly divorced over this. He seemed to understand to some degree what done to me as a man, admitting that if our places were reversed he isn�t sure he could do it.

OM has a home office so he now has BW as an always present partner and has provided the opportunity for OM and BW to spend entire days sorting through his poor decisions over the last year. OM has a full time travel partner for his frequent business trips; he is no longer on any social media. He doesn�t drink anymore because he has a drinking problem (this is funny).

I�ve got to run I�ll finish in a bit


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Originally Posted by LatefortheSky
OM has a home office so he now has BW as an always present partner and has provided the opportunity for OM and BW to spend entire days sorting through his poor decisions over the last year. OM has a full time travel partner for his frequent business trips; he is no longer on any social media. He doesn�t drink anymore because he has a drinking problem (this is funny).

His "frequent business trips" are an invitation to an affair. crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by LatefortheSky
OM has a home office so he now has BW as an always present partner and has provided the opportunity for OM and BW to spend entire days sorting through his poor decisions over the last year. OM has a full time travel partner for his frequent business trips; he is no longer on any social media. He doesn�t drink anymore because he has a drinking problem (this is funny).

His "frequent business trips" are an invitation to an affair. crazy
Ya, but his BW is his new travel buddy. The first time I called her, I told her that Tf and her WH had a date and that he had tried to meet up again. I told her that her WH had tried to arrange to meet in a city a few hours north of us. Well, when I told her that she told me that he was out of town, at that event. What angered her was that she wanted to go, but he told her they were told no wives on this trip. think


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Originally Posted by LatefortheSky
Ya, but his BW is his new travel buddy.


ahhhhh, that will solve the problem!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Maybe it's just me, but there is a minor pattern I think I see in some of, or maybe many of the threads I have read. WS's and FWS's don't seem ready to commit to recovery until they have completely wiped out the BS's Love Bank for them.

Is this something, or am I just projecting my own stuff?

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WS's and FWS's don't seem ready to commit to recovery until they have completely wiped out the BS's Love Bank

Conjecture?

Because until the BH (much more prevalent here) starts making it manifest that the entire marital edifice is about to come down, the WW refuses to take it seriously. And modern husbands have had most of their "sternness" trained out of them, so it's only at the last moment does it come out.

It's human nature to NOT accept the inevitability of the looming catastrophe. Global warming? Rising oceans? Yeah, maybe! Until the Atlantic Ocean floods the NYC subway system, and then it's, "Oh, boy, we have to get serious!"

The two fastest turn-around stories by WWs in my time here have been mirrormirror and.....myself. Both BHs' reactions were so ...dynamic?... strident?... unmistakable?... that the WWs "snapped-to" immediately. There was no, "Well, he doesn't really mean what he's saying. It'll just pass by and we'll go on as before!"

Can you tell your WW today, something that she absolutely has to do today, to preserve the possibility of a recovered marriage, and have her do it, without question or negotiation? A week into our situation, I could have done that. MM had his WW on her knees, begging for forgiveness, within two weeks.

Anyway, as I said, just (anecdotal-based) conjecture.....

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
WS's and FWS's don't seem ready to commit to recovery until they have completely wiped out the BS's Love Bank

Conjecture?

Because until the BH (much more prevalent here) starts making it manifest that the entire marital edifice is about to come down, the WW refuses to take it seriously. And modern husbands have had most of their "sternness" trained out of them, so it's only at the last moment does it come out.

It's human nature to NOT accept the inevitability of the looming catastrophe. Global warming? Rising oceans? Yeah, maybe! Until the Atlantic Ocean floods the NYC subway system, and then it's, "Oh, boy, we have to get serious!"

The two fastest turn-around stories by WWs in my time here have been mirrormirror and.....myself. Both BHs' reactions were so ...dynamic?... strident?... unmistakable?... that the WWs "snapped-to" immediately. There was no, "Well, he doesn't really mean what he's saying. It'll just pass by and we'll go on as before!"

Can you tell your WW today, something that she absolutely has to do today, to preserve the possibility of a recovered marriage, and have her do it, without question or negotiation? A week into our situation, I could have done that. MM had his WW on her knees, begging for forgiveness, within two weeks.

Anyway, as I said, just (anecdotal-based) conjecture.....
NG, I've been thinking about what you posted. My initial read agreed with your thoughts generally, just not specifically to me and my circumstance.I think the chink in my armor came when I offered a chance for redemption.

You also offered something else, on another thread, which I found insightful. These are a few of the things I haven't been able to solve.

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...why some BS are able to get past it and others are not.

Boy, you don't want much, do you? Only the answer to the most vital question that folks here struggle with every day, and have since ML submitted the first of 69K posts - probably on papyrus!

How many HUNDREDS of mental, emotional, and psychological factors do you think make up the success/failure matrix for that question? I just took ten minutes and jotted these down, and certainly folks with many more letters after their names can provide much better insight.

Number of years married
Quality of marriage during those years
Number/age of children
Complicating conditions
Previous infidelities - either way
Support system - MB, religious, psych
BS Attitude toward Vengeance
BS Attitude toward Forgiveness
BS Attitude toward Marriage
WS Response to Discovery/Exposure
WS Remorse - Timing, Extent
Speed of NC, etc
WS Acceptance of O&H
FOO Positions/history
BS Impression of Intensity of Affair
Existence of OC
Non-marital Damage - Health, Lifestyle

Many of these are set in stone long before the infidelity was committed, some even long before the base marriage was joined.

With each of those have a continuum of impact from "disastrous" to "remedial", trying to develop a "formula" for predicting what the final result will be is not worth the effort.

What IS worth the effort is understanding that, of the ones that are addressable post-A, NOTHING should take precedence over maximizing the positive impact that can be harvested.

Enough navel-gazing - back to WORK!



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Trueform mentioned in her thread that you are not getting your UA time. How is that going in your opinion? You will not recover your marriage unless you put in those 15 hours.

PS, vets can you read both this thread and Trueforms in Surviving an Affair. There seems to be a disconnect.. Can yall weigh in as they seem to be stuck..

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Originally Posted by tiredwife45
Trueform mentioned in her thread that you are not getting your UA time. How is that going in your opinion? You will not recover your marriage unless you put in those 15 hours.

PS, vets can you read both this thread and Trueforms in Surviving an Affair. There seems to be a disconnect.. Can yall weigh in as they seem to be stuck..

TW, I think UA is getting better. Trueform has been great. I have been struggling mightily on a spiritual and emotional level, I'm tired.

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Originally Posted by LatefortheSky
Originally Posted by tiredwife45
Trueform mentioned in her thread that you are not getting your UA time. How is that going in your opinion? You will not recover your marriage unless you put in those 15 hours.

PS, vets can you read both this thread and Trueforms in Surviving an Affair. There seems to be a disconnect.. Can yall weigh in as they seem to be stuck..

TW, I think UA is getting better. Trueform has been great. I have been struggling mightily on a spiritual and emotional level, I'm tired.
Have you considered getting some medication to help you? The right meds will restore you to a normal state of mind. When I was at your point, that was the single thing I did that helped the most.


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Originally Posted by mrEureka
Have you considered getting some medication to help you? The right meds will restore you to a normal state of mind. When I was at your point, that was the single thing I did that helped the most.

Thanks, yes I started meds 12/21/12, which seems to have helped. Even needing meds is a tough though, my father was a paranoid schizophrenic. I never admitted to anyone including my wife, that from 12 until my late 20's I had this terrible fear that I was the ONE. I saw every quirk as a symtom or a way I was disquising the fact I had inherited this thing.


This stuff has so uprooted me to the core...I can't even find a safe place inside myself. Wow, how is that for someone who detests pansy psycho-babble?

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I think the chink in my armor came when I offered a chance for redemption.

FWIW, I agree.

(And here's where NG starts the process that usually ends with being attacked as wrong, until I respond angrily and get "moderated", so read quickly!)

Too often the BH "gives" redemption to the returned WW. That is flat, frickin' wrong. Redemption should be "earned" by the WW, wrenched from the clenching fists of the BH by WW actions and demonstration of remorse reform so blatant that she MUST be granted the boon.

EPs must be ironclad, approaching the range of "overbearing". These will be the coverage of your "rear" to allow you to stride forward. They can be, and logically will be, loosened over time (years), but as you're finding out, they can never be tightened once defined as loose.

JC must be comprehensive. Yeah, I got it, getting one's "pound of flesh" in return for one's suffering is deemed somehow ...primitive...by the more "refined", but who the HELL cares. The damage was done to the BH's primitive emotional centers of possession and security. Having WW write an apologetic sonnet in response is NOT going to apply balm to the injury.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I think the chink in my armor came when I offered a chance for redemption.

FWIW, I agree.

(And here's where NG starts the process that usually ends with being attacked as wrong, until I respond angrily and get "moderated", so read quickly!)

Too often the BH "gives" redemption to the returned WW. That is flat, frickin' wrong. Redemption should be "earned" by the WW, wrenched from the clenching fists of the BH by WW actions and demonstration of remorse reform so blatant that she MUST be granted the boon.

EPs must be ironclad, approaching the range of "overbearing". These will be the coverage of your "rear" to allow you to stride forward. They can be, and logically will be, loosened over time (years), but as you're finding out, they can never be tightened once defined as loose.

JC must be comprehensive. Yeah, I got it, getting one's "pound of flesh" in return for one's suffering is deemed somehow ...primitive...by the more "refined", but who the HELL cares. The damage was done to the BH's primitive emotional centers of possession and security. Having WW write an apologetic sonnet in response is NOT going to apply balm to the injury.

I couldn�t agree more. My problem was when I confronted WW I had no evidence of an A. She made an NC call the next morning and there begins more than a year of trickle truth. One reason it took me a while to appreciate the benefits of Marriage Builders is at the height of the TT, Tf emailed me the link for this site. It didn�t take much effort for me to see she was only interested in POJA. A couple of hours later, while I was home for lunch, is when I learned she met POSOM.

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Okay, now you (we?) have learned two things:

You SCREWED UP!
and
YOU screwed up!

TF cannot be expected to understand the dearth of satisfaction that the current state of "recovery" provides you, unless you can explain it to her, which means re-addressing the A, and THAT is not good either.

So, dude, it's on you. Sorry, but there is, it seems, a "permanent record" after all, and yours will carry forward a C- in "Immediate Affair Recovery".

I did not have MB as Bride and I moved forward, so after two months I also realized the failure you're struggling with. (It wasn't so much her failure to aid me, as my ignorance of what aid I required.) I then created a paradigm via the re-commitment ceremony that August in which I figuratively began a new marriage, with the same woman. Bride continues to honor May 1 as our wedding anniversary, and I am actually paying it more heed recently. But from 2009 through last year, my "anniversary" was August 13.

Is TF the person you would marry today, with no prior commitments ever made? If so, then "do" so, with whatever level of formality will serve.

The old, damaged LftS/TF union must no longer intrude on the new one, pardner.

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TF cannot be expected to understand the dearth of satisfaction that the current state of "recovery" provides you, unless you can explain it to her, which means re-addressing the A, and THAT is not good either.

Just for the record, I absolutely expect TF to understand the unacceptable state of recovery and to do whatever is necessary to have any chance of recovery. She is the one who threw our marriage away for some childish crap she held onto for 35 years and then lied to me for the better part of the last 4 years.


Is TF the person you would marry today, with no prior commitments ever made? If so, then "do" so, with whatever level of formality will serve.


NG, you certainly got right to the point here. After reading your post I really thought about your question. When I got home from work I asked TF if she had seen your post and she said she had, so I asked her if she had any thoughts about it she tried to recall what you posted. I repeated your question above and my answer was NO.

Long story short, she is a different woman today. We renewed our wedding vows on July 23, at a Mass at our home with our four children; it was really a beautiful thing. Thanks so much NG for both your question and your suggestion they were both helpful, like a kick in the pants.

Lots of work ahead but I have much hope and realize my biggest challenge is to let go of resentment and keep my heart open to any and all of TF�s genuine efforts to win her marriage back. Thanks again NG and everyone who has cared enough to help us during this most terrible time in our lives.


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LftS, there are many, MANY, MB colleagues who resent (and deride) the advice I tend to offer here, for both its content and the rigor of its delivery.

I will face ALL that opposition, and gladly, for one story like the one you and TF are writing together.

God Bless You both.

(And don't be a stranger here. MB's concepts and principles are best kept fresh and vital with every successful adherent chipping in!)

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